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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Trepiodos]
    #11011138 -

So how, in your opinion, should we handle the fact that there are terrorist regimes that will stop at nothing to see us and our children dead?

Should we do nothing, just wait for the next attack?

I'm not arguing with you, I just want to know the solution you propose?


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Products of a Dyin Breed

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11011205 -

Killing the innocent IS NOT the way to reduce the breeding of terrorist sympathies in the world.  You weaken regimes, by weakening the causes which undergird their support.

There is of course another way, genocide.  If you have no qualms with that, it can be quite effective, assuming that you kill every last one of the relatives of those you have harmed.  The upside is that it requires no moral compass - just the ability to destroy the bloodlines of those you don't want around faster than they can reproduce.  You would also have to take similar actions against any of those who share sufficient beliefs and sympathies with your victims that they would consider you a threat and/or an enemy.  For good references on how to go about this, see the history of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.


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And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...
- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11011312 -

How are you any different from them if you are celebrating their deaths?

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Redstorm]
    #11011381 -

I'm not celebrating. But there is a such thing as casualties of war. I believe that at some point we have to decide whether we want to be politically correct, or do we want to protect OUR innocent civilians and the innocent civilians of our allies.

I served in the marine corp for many years and did 2 tours in Afghanistan. It's hard to fight a war when the enemy doesn't wear uniforms. When a small child will kill you in a heartbeat. We must be proactive, not reactive. We can't wait for another 9-11 to shut down the afghans. We can't wait for Iraq to finish the construction of a nuclear weapon.

I don't think the accidental deaths of civilians is something to celebrate, but I don't think it's something to deter us from what we have to do either.


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Products of a Dyin Breed

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11011466 -

Lol Abraham got pwned.

FAIL!


haha 

BTW - That is so true. Prisoner and the next chick here that banged on the equanimity failure of bush and o-bomb-ass.

Here, here.

Good day, sir.

:rockon:


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: PookztA]
    #11011580 -

PookztA said:
Great post, it is good that people are paying attention to this stuff. Obama definitely is a puppet if you ask me... otherwise he would be bringing attention to the innocent killings that just occurred.


AcidDropper420 said:
just wait and see what hes got planned for his own civilians.


i don't think Obama is plotting evil doings... i just think he is a puppet. he is buckling under the pressure his corrupt advisors, such as Rahm Emanual, are putting on him if you ask me...

it boggles my mind that some people think that Obama has some evil agenda just sitting on his desk. it is his advisors and the advisors of the advisors that determine the agendas that Obama must go along with.

Rahm Emanuel is Obama's CHIEF OF STAFF advisor. he is also a dual-citizen with Israel, and his father fought against Palestininans during the on-going Middle Eastern conflict.

some things to look into are Rahm Emanual, American-Israeli dual-citizenship in our government, AIPAC (American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee).

here is a link to an article talking about how there are many American-Israel dual citizens in our government (including presidential advisors), but absolutely zero Mexican-American dual citizens in our government: http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

I now believe more than ever that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were planned and orchestrated by a corrupt network of people, as an event to strike fear of 'Arab terrorists' and 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' (which we never found) into the hearts of Americans so that our government would start a war with the Arab countries of the Middle East in order to destabilize the region (and for oil), allowing Israel to continue knocking down Palestinian homes so they could continue expanding (unfairly) into the remaining Palestinian territories of West Bank and Gaza. They are now expanding at the most alarming rate since the creation of the State Of Israel in 1948. Not only are we helping Israel by conducting military operations in the Middle East, but we are also helping them by giving them billions of hard-earned tax-dollars despite the fact that America is in the worst economic crisis EVER in our planet's history.

I BELIEVE THIS WITH ALL OF MY INTELLECT, AND ALL OF MY HEART, NOW MORE THAN EVER.

I do not believe that Israel is necessarily the cause of the problem though. I believe there are some extremely wealthy 'string-pullers' that have interests in Israel that I do not fully understand, but they most likely seem to be tied to religious beliefs and the religious history of the land that Israel was built upon. Some of the people that I believe to be the 'string-pullers' are the Rothschild family, and the Rockefeller family (they own one of the world's largest oil companies, called 'Standard Oil'). These extremely wealthy families are heavily involved with influencing politics, funding lobbying and the writing of policies and legislation, influencing the largest mainstream media companies, and they were even involved with the building of the Supreme Court of Israel.

A painting of the Rothschild family seated around a prototype of the Supreme Court of Israel:


I am not trying to cast the blame on just one person or family here. Religion is also to blame, in addition to a multitude of factors which we may never know, and never really need to know. Plus, blame is useless unless it improves the situation...

I am just trying to say that I am not just some unintelligent punk who is a firm believer in every conspiracy theory that comes his way.

Many of the people who share the beliefs I have, regarding Israel, also are so crazy that they believe that the 'string-pullers' are actually an evil, parasitic Reptilian alien-race, which owns the human race and uses us as slaves to feed off of our children and drink our blood. I do not believe in such crap, for there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. Contrastingly, there are STOCKPILES of evidence supporting what I believe in regards to Israel, 9/11 attacks, the War in Iraq, etc.

I believe the things I just stated with all of my rationality, all of my logic, all of my commonsense, all of my heart, all of my mind, all of my body, and all of my spirit.

Sincerely,

-Abraham Hafiz Rodriguez

[Concerned citizen, Pro-humanitarian, Neurobiologist (B.S.), and M1 Medical Student]




thanks tips.


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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: AcidDropper420]
    #11012195 -

It is very difficult fighting an enemy that cares nothing of life. An enemy that is more than willing to sacrifice innocent brothers by the thousands, is one that must be stopped.  If there were innocent citizens they were forced to be there in an attempt to sway public opinion.  The U.S. takes more care than anyone  making sure that these accidents don't happen, and the reality is there has been very little on our side.

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #11013674 -

Quote:
The U.S. takes more care than anyone  making sure that these accidents don't happen, and the reality is there has been very little on our side.


Agreed, the united states is trying to help those who need it. And we are trying to do it while following the Geneva convention. No one said war is pretty, but we do our best to make it that way.
I wish that the people who talk about how not free we are, could spend a week in Fallujah Iraq. You would appreciate what you have here so much more.


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Products of a Dyin Breed

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11013737 -

I agree. We should stop discussing the freedoms we don't have because other countries have less than us.

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: lonestar2004]
    #11018014 -

lonestar2004 said:
Pris does Germany even have an Air Force that can drop BOMBS????


the Luftwaffe has about 4 recon planes in afghanistan

the way I've seen it in the news is...
"KUNDUZ, Afghanistan – A U.S. jet dropped 500-pound bombs on two tanker trucks hijacked by the Taliban before dawn Friday, triggering a huge explosion that Afghan officials said killed more than 70 people, including insurgents and some civilians who had swarmed around the vehicles to siphon off fuel."


seems that it was a US jet that dropped the bombs, as we all know the US
military is under the command of the supreme commander in chief, Barack
Obama, Obama with his fingers all in Bushes pies has the ability to call
off any air strikes

so why was obama blamed for a few deaths early in the term when using
unmanned drones but the massive casualties are suddenly on NATO


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11018076 -

ThePheonix said:
Quote:
The U.S. takes more care than anyone  making sure that these accidents don't happen, and the reality is there has been very little on our side.


Agreed, the united states is trying to help those who need it. And we are trying to do it while following the Geneva convention.


really?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090904/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan
Quote:
"The Taliban were there from 2 p.m. yesterday," said Habibullah, the driver of one of the tanker trucks that was hijacked. "I informed the military about this and I told them they will hijack us. They told me that they will inform the (NATO) military about this. No one came to protect us."



Abdul Ghafoor, whose brother was killed in the airstrike, said NATO soldiers have a duty to protect civilians.

"The vehicles they are driving around in are not for taking their families for sightseeing," he said. "The Taliban of this area are not good people."

Kunduz, a former Taliban stronghold, had been generally peaceful until insurgent attacks began rising earlier this year — perhaps an effort to control a profitable smuggling route from neighboring Tajikistan. Most of the fighting in Afghanistan this summer has been in the south and east, where U.S. and British forces operate.

Last May, U.S. warplanes struck military targets in the western Farah province, killing an estimated 60 to 65 insurgents. The U.S. said 20 to 30 civilians also died in those attacks. The Afghan government said 140 civilians were killed.



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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11019258 -

> so why was obama blamed for a few deaths early in the term when using unmanned drones but the massive casualties are suddenly on NATO

Otard bait and switch tactics.  I'm surprised they are blaming NATO rather than Bush; they blame him for pretty much every one of Obama's mistakes.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Seuss]
    #11019459 -

Practically every source so far has referred to it as a NATO airstrike.

When General McChrystal made comments about the incident, he made them as the commander of the ISAF (NATO), not the commander of U.S-only forces.

It's completely factual to call it a NATO airstrike. Furthermore, it seems that the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan did not even give the final order to attack, making it even more unlikely that it reached Obama in the chain of command.

On the other hand, Obama personally authorized the Pakistan missile strikes that were carried out by CIA-operated drones, making it entirely reasonable to call them "Obama's airstrikes" or however you want to indicate that it was a wholly U.S. operation.


--------------------
Twilight Zone: watch full episodes archived on CBS.com

All of RogerRabbit's Notes on Cultivation

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: THC Titan]
    #11019576 -

Quote:
The Afghan government said 140 civilians were killed.


This is probly not true, of course the taliban will embellish and exploit any opportunity to make the u.s. seem like the enemy.

Quote:
The U.S. said 20 to 30 civilians also died in those attacks.


Quite possible.  Casualties of war. The u.s. is not perfect. Just look at the things that happened at abu ghraib and qitmo. You can't blame a whole country for the mistakes of one or two soldiers. Just as you can't expect to fight a war without ever killing civilians, especially when the civilians are harboring and aiding terrorists. Not to mention the lack of military uniforms makes it nearly impossibly to distinguish between civilians and military. People are always looking to hate the u.s. and it's military.
If it's coming from a us citizen, i chalk it up to rebellion and ungratefulness. Hatred from other countries i believe stems from jealousy or different religious beliefs.


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Products of a Dyin Breed

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: THC Titan]
    #11019600 -

THC Titan said:
Practically every source so far has referred to it as a NATO airstrike.


Sure, PrObama media calls them NATO air strikes, seems the rest of the
world calls out the  US on the bullshit, of course when you find
reference int he US news about a US air strike, most are pre-Barack

maybe it's a strong indicator that we dont need to be involved in NATO
or the UN, if it was a german fuckup we certainly dont need them calling
the shots

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/06/world/main5291390.shtml

Quote:
When General McChrystal made comments about the incident, he made them as the commander of the ISAF (NATO), not the commander of U.S-only forces.


so the US led, predominantly US forces are not US troops over there
protecting america from terrorism and trying to ensure our way of life?


Quote:
On the other hand, Obama personally authorized the Pakistan missile strikes that were carried out by CIA-operated drones, making it entirely reasonable to call them "Obama's airstrikes" or however you want to indicate that it was a wholly U.S. operation.


I'm sure you're way to young to have learned anything significant about
viet nam, especially incursions into laos and cambodia, why was obama
trying to start a war with a country we arent at war with, how abot
those calls for war crimes prosecution we kept hearing about bush


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: ThePheonix]
    #11019614 -

ThePheonix said:
Quote:
The Afghan government said 140 civilians were killed.


This is probly not true, of course the taliban will embellish and exploit any opportunity to make the u.s. seem like the enemy.



the taliban isnt in power, they're an islamic republic with a president, 2
vice presidents, why would these elected leaders that the US helped to
install be over inflating the death toll


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11019625 -

My bad, typo. I was thinking of the taliban when i was writing.


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Products of a Dyin Breed

Edited by ThePheonix (09/08/09 09:05 AM)

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11020130 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Sure, PrObama media calls them NATO air strikes, seems the rest of the
world calls out the  US on the bullshit, of course when you find
reference int he US news about a US air strike, most are pre-Barack


Does Germany have troops in Kunduz? Are they part of the NATO-led forces in the area? Did their commander order the airstrikes?

The answer to all three is "yes".

That is why NATO itself is involved with the investigation and press releases that have taken place since the incident.

British, Canadian, German, and Iranian news sources have all described them as NATO airstrikes, along with AP and Reuters.

I urge you to post a link to one of your non-Zionist news sources (not blog) that doesn't.


Quote:
Quote:
When General McChrystal made comments about the incident, he made them as the commander of the ISAF (NATO), not the commander of U.S-only forces.


so the US led, predominantly US forces are not US troops over there
protecting america from terrorism and trying to ensure our way of life?


Looks like the purpose of that statement went over your head.

When McChrystal apologized, he did so as the NATO commander, recognizing the partnership between German and U.S. forces that allows allied countries to call in bombs with our aircraft. We're working together over there. Germany has the third-largest contingent of forces.

Quote:
Quote:
On the other hand, Obama personally authorized the Pakistan missile strikes that were carried out by CIA-operated drones, making it entirely reasonable to call them "Obama's airstrikes" or however you want to indicate that it was a wholly U.S. operation.


I'm sure you're way to young to have learned anything significant about
viet nam, especially incursions into laos and cambodia, why was obama
trying to start a war with a country we arent at war with, how abot
those calls for war crimes prosecution we kept hearing about bush


I think the idea is that if we have actionable intelligence about the specific location of high-priority A'Q targets, we should have the unilateral authority to take them out, with or without the permission of Pakistan's government. That's American foreign policy, yet Osama bin Laden escaped from Bush for eight years hiding in caves and whatnot so it hasn't worked terribly well.

I agree there are too many civilian casualties from unmanned drones. How about we slash that defense budget by 10% and stop supporting the murder of innocent people over there? Oh, but I'm sure you would be against anything that reduces the size of the military and forces some amount of restraint on those war criminals you want to prosecute so badly.


--------------------
Twilight Zone: watch full episodes archived on CBS.com

All of RogerRabbit's Notes on Cultivation

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: THC Titan]
    #11020164 -

THC Titan said:
How about we slash that defense budget by 10% and stop supporting the murder of innocent people over there? Oh, but I'm sure you would be against anything that reduces the size of the military


thats funny coming from someone who defends the man sending the troops and bombs over there...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Obama airstrike killed mostly civilians [Re: THC Titan]
    #11020754 -

Ten percent would be a good start.  I would also be for a transfer of that ten percent to the State Department budget.

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