Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: shakta]
    #1740812 - 07/23/03 10:25 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

In either case, you have stated the same crap over and over in this thread.

I'm sorry but saying you can't capture a cripple and a 14 year old alive is utterly ridiculous. Read about what happened at a place called Entebbe and then get back to me. You'll be amazed.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1740815 - 07/23/03 10:26 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

maybe he was waiting until the heat was off before he dug them up and started things up again... for the 12 years in question, he had weapons inspectors breathing down his neck... of course he didn't dig them up. understand?

do you think he wouldn't have ever dug them up?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Here you go: [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740818 - 07/23/03 10:27 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Mr Sedeq, a Kurd, is from Halabja, a town in northern Iraq close to the border with Iran. On March 16, 1988

How many times have i got to repeat myself man? We KNOW he had them in 1988!!!  :rolleyes: 


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740826 - 07/23/03 10:29 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Your claim that US companies sold chemical weapons to Iraq.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/03/119547.php
During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq received the lion's share of American support because at the time Iran was regarded as the greater threat to U.S. interests. According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported a witch's brew of biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:

* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.

* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.

* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.

* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.

* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.

* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.


Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. "These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated. "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment.

The exports continued to at least November 28, 1989, despite evidence that Iraq was engaging in chemical and biological warfare against Iranians and Kurds since as early as 1984.

The American company that provided the most biological materials to Iraq in the 1980s was American Type Culture Collection of Maryland and Virginia, which made seventy shipments of the anthrax-causing germ and other pathogenic agents, according to a 1996 Newsday story.

Other American companies also provided Iraq with the chemical or biological compounds, or the facilities and equipment used to create the compounds for chemical and biological warfare. Among these suppliers were the following:

* Alcolac International, a Baltimore chemical manufacturer already linked to the illegal shipment of chemicals to Iran, shipped large quantities of thiodiglycol (used to make mustard gas) as well as other chemical and biological ingredients, according to a 1989 story in The New York Times.

* Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp. of Brooklyn (affiliated with the United Steel and Strip Corporation) also supplied Iraq with huge amounts of thiodiglycol, the Times reported.

* Celery Corp., Charlotte, NC

* Matrix-Churchill Corp., Cleveland, OH (regarded as a front for the Iraqi government, according to Representative Henry Gonzalez, Democrat of Texas, who quoted U.S. intelligence documents to this effect in a 1992 speech on the House floor).


The following companies were also named as chemical and biological materials suppliers in the 1992 Senate hearings on "United States export policy toward Iraq prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait":

* Mouse Master, Lilburn, GA

* Sullaire Corp., Charlotte, NC

* Pure Aire, Charlotte, NC

* Posi Seal, Inc., N. Stonington, CT

* Union Carbide, Danbury, CT

* Evapco, Taneytown, MD

* Gorman-Rupp, Mansfield, OH


Additionally, several other companies were sued in connection with their activities providing Iraq with chemical or biological supplies: subsidiaries or branches of Fisher Controls International, Inc., St. Louis; Rhone-Poulenc, Inc., Princeton, NJ; Bechtel Group, Inc., San Francisco; and Lummus Crest, Inc., Bloomfield, NJ, which built one chemical plant in Iraq and, before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, was building an ethylene facility. Ethylene is a necessary ingredient for thiodiglycol

In 1994, a group of twenty-six veterans, suffering from what has come to be known as Gulf War Syndrome, filed a billion-dollar lawsuit in Houston against Fisher, Rhone-Poulenc, Bechtel Group, and Lummus Crest, as well as American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) and six other firms, for helping Iraq to obtain or produce the compounds which the veterans blamed for their illnesses. By 1998, the number of plaintiffs has risen to more than 4,000 and the suit is still pending in Texas.

A Pentagon study in 1994 dismissed links between chemical and biological weapons and Gulf War Syndrome. Newsday later disclosed, however, that the man who headed the study, Nobel laureate Joshua Lederberg, was a director of ATCC. Moreover, at the time of ATCC's shipments to Iraq, which the Commerce Department approved, the firm's CEO was a member of the Commerce Department's Technical Advisory Committee, the paper found.

A larger number of American firms supplied Iraq with the specialized computers, lasers, testing and analyzing equipment, and other instruments and hardware vital to the manufacture of nuclear weapons, missiles, and delivery systems. Computers, in particular, play a key role in nuclear weapons development. Advanced computers make it feasible to avoid carrying out nuclear test explosions, thus preserving the program's secrecy. The 1992 Senate hearings implicated the following firms:

* Kennametal, Latrobe, PA

* Hewlett Packard, Palo Alto, CA

* International Computer Systems, CA, SC, and TX

* Perkins-Elmer, Norwalk, CT

* BDM Corp., McLean, VA

* Leybold Vacuum Systems, Export, PA

* Spectra Physics, Mountain View, CA

* Unisys Corp., Blue Bell, PA

* Finnigan MAT, San Jose, CA

* Scientific Atlanta, Atlanta, GA

* Spectral Data Corp., Champaign, IL

* Tektronix, Wilsonville, OR

* Veeco Instruments, Inc., Plainview, NY

* Wiltron Company, Morgan Hill, CA

The House report also singled out: TI Coating, Inc., Axel Electronics, Data General Corp., Gerber Systems, Honeywell, Inc., Digital Equipment Corp., Sackman Associates, Rockwell Collins International, Wild Magnavox Satellite Survey, Zeta Laboratories, Carl Schenck, EZ Logic Data, International Imaging Systems, Semetex Corp., and Thermo Jarrell Ash Corporation.

Some of the companies said later that they had no idea Iraq might ever put their products to military use. A spokesperson for Hewlett Packard said the company believed that the Iraqi recipient of its shipments, Saad 16, was an institution of higher learning. In fact, in 1990 The Wall Street Journal described Saad 16 as "a heavily fortified, state-of-the-art complex for aircraft construction, missile design, and, almost certainly, nuclear-weapons research."


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Here you go: [Re: Xlea321]
    #1740834 - 07/23/03 10:31 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

What makes you think he unilaterally decided to divest himself of all his weapons, in a manner that would provide no proof to UNSCOM?

UNSCOM catalogued his weapons, and destroyed some of them. He then forced them out of the country, and the remaining anthrax and nerve agents disappeared. Hussein then claimed to have destroyed them of hif own volition, but without making any records.

You are awfully credible when it comes to claims by genocidal dictators. Why do you believe that these weapons no longer exist?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1740836 - 07/23/03 10:33 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

whew... that's quite a list... hewlett packard? i'm looking at my scanner and printer here... brought to me by the same company that sent weapons components to hussein... crazy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1740841 - 07/23/03 10:37 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Your post does demonstrate that US companies sold a lot of raw materials and biological research cultures to Iraq. None of these are weapons in and of themselves, and require a huge investment in capital and research to weaponize.

This is similar to the claims that selling cold medicine make you a meth dealer.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Here you go: [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740847 - 07/23/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

UNSCOM catalogued his weapons, and destroyed some of them. He then forced them out of the country, and the remaining anthrax and nerve agents disappeared. Hussein then claimed to have destroyed them of hif own volition, but without making any records.

Do you know chemical and biological weapons have shelf-lives?




--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740849 - 07/23/03 10:39 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I will concede that persons selling either cold medicine or E.Coli cultures may indeed have bad intent. Both are also useful medical products that are, and should remain, legal.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Here you go: [Re: Xlea321]
    #1740854 - 07/23/03 10:41 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Anthrax spores have a shelf life of hundreds of year when buried in the dirt.

Nerve agents have much shorter life spans, but can survive decades if properly stored. Most degrade relatively in sunlight.

I am a graduate of CBR (Chemical, Biological, Radiological) Warfare School. Basically that means I get to spend a lot of time sweating my ass off in a MOPP suit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Here you go: [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740912 - 07/23/03 11:17 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
GORAN SEDEQ was eight years old when he was gassed by Iraqi forces. ?It was like hell ? indescribable,? he said.

Mr Sedeq, a Kurd, is from Halabja, a town in northern Iraq close to the border with Iran. On March 16, 1988, during the Iran-Iraq war, President Saddam Hussein?s forces bombed the city with mustard and nerve gas, killing about 5,000 civilians in an attack designed to teach the rebellious Kurds the cost of siding with Iran. Thousands more have died since from injuries or related cancers and birth defects.

The rest is at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3463-431339,00.html





What's interesting about this is that the US continued to support Saddam after this act and I believe even tried to cover it up and blame it on Iran.


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Here you go: [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1740917 - 07/23/03 11:21 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Some ppl still claim Iran was to blame, and that the US covered that up.

IMHO, the evidence against Iraq is more credible.

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/GaseousLies.htm

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Here you go: [Re: wingnutx]
    #1740918 - 07/23/03 11:21 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I agree..... I think it's pretty much certain that Iraq did it.


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Here you go: [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1740940 - 07/23/03 11:32 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

When saddam destoyed his weapons, were there missle unacounted for or just chemicals?, because lots could have expired in the last ten years......missles wouldn't.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Here you go: [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1740972 - 07/23/03 11:48 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Here are some select quotes for those of you with short memories (this isn't a direct reply to anyone):

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney
Speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
George W. Bush
Speech to U.N. General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
George W. Bush
Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003

One of our top objectives [now they claim it was never a main objective?] is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.
Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark
Press Briefing, March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld
ABC Interview, March 30, 2003
--------------------------------------------------

I'd also like to add that some of you talk about this gun battle like you were there, when in fact all of us are going from media reports or CENTCOM releases. I still don't think that they ever intended to capture those guys alive. The place was reportedly surrounded by 200 soldiers. So 200 soldiers, a bunch of helicopters and 10 TOW missiles to take out 4 people (not all of them may have been armed either). Lets face it, those guys weren't going anywhere. You have 4 people trapped in a house going nowhere fast, and the best they could think of was to pummel the place into submission?

There were also reports of Iraqi civilians being injured, and one Iraqi teenager killed in the crossfire, but as long as we got those murdering bastards I guess their sacrifice was worth it?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.

Edited by Edame (07/23/03 12:00 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
FumbDuck

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 1,144
Loc: BFE
Re: Here you go: [Re: Edame]
    #1741083 - 07/23/03 12:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Jesus Alex take the aluminum foil off your windows and get some sun man. Your rhetoric and constant negative view on everything is tiresome. If I was as negative as you I would have left this earth along time ago. Damn dude Im not saying take everything at face value but shit if you think anything and everything any government does or says(except for the Iraqi government) is a lie then you need counseling.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Here you go: [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
    #1741150 - 07/23/03 12:47 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Hang on, rewind a bit there buddy. When did I say everything the government says is a lie? We're talking about WMD in Iraq. Are you seriously saying Iraq has WMD?

The reality is they don't exist, surely on this matter you agree Bush was misleading us and killed thousands of people for specious reasons. I tend to think you need pretty overwhelming evidence before you start slaughtering people. If that's negative then hey, I'm negative.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Here you go: [Re: Edame]
    #1741185 - 07/23/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

First of all none of your quotes has anything to do with this conversation. It is another diversion to WMDs, just like Alex's.

Quote:

I'd also like to add that some of you talk about this gun battle like you were there, when in fact all of us are going from media reports or CENTCOM releases.




And? I trust the CENTCOM release. Why would they lie about it. They tried to kill them, by just bombing a location into submission before.

Quote:

I still don't think that they ever intended to capture those guys alive. The place was reportedly surrounded by 200 soldiers. So 200 soldiers, a bunch of helicopters and 10 TOW missiles to take out 4 people (not all of them may have been armed either). Lets face it, those guys weren't going anywhere. You have 4 people trapped in a house going nowhere fast, and the best they could think of was to pummel the place into submission?




This argument has already been covered a few times in this thread. We called for them to come out on a bullhorn, and went in the building. They started shooting at our guys and injured them, so we pulled back. We shot up the place for a while, and tried again. Again, they shot at our guys. At this point we know they are not coming out peacefully, so we blew them to hell. Pretty simple really, even if you refuse to see the logic.

Quote:

There were also reports of Iraqi civilians being injured, and one Iraqi teenager killed in the crossfire, but as long as we got those murdering bastards I guess their sacrifice was worth it?




I have not seen mention of this though. Crossfire is just that. It could have come from the building, who knows? Any reasonable person would get the hell out of dodge when they see a bunch of troops pull up and surround a place. Again, I have not seen these reports, or heard anything about it on the news.

Edited by shakta (07/23/03 01:11 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Here you go: [Re: shakta]
    #1741188 - 07/23/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

What am I doing wrong with the quotes?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Here you go: [Re: shakta]
    #1741209 - 07/23/03 01:02 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Try not using caps.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Test your knowledge of gun control:
( 1 2 3 all )
Ellis Dee 5,615 45 09/14/01 06:14 PM
by wingnutx
* Gun control part #666 PjS 1,397 7 12/30/01 09:26 PM
by nugsarenice
* Pictures of Saddam's Sons
( 1 2 3 all )
foghorn 2,311 48 07/26/03 12:15 PM
by Rhizoid
* How would you of ousted Saddam?
( 1 2 3 all )
Innvertigo 2,229 44 04/04/03 06:43 PM
by RadioActiveSlug
* I Hope Saddam is Prepared... Anonymous 827 17 01/14/03 12:51 PM
by Voodoo Doll
* Guns and Liberals
( 1 2 3 4 all )
luvdemshrooms 4,121 70 08/22/03 10:09 AM
by st0nedphucker
* Gun Control
( 1 2 3 all )
Andytweed 3,684 44 01/29/03 03:35 AM
by RandalFlagg
* 40 Reasons For Gun Control
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 5,888 31 10/08/13 02:05 AM
by Therian

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
13,348 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.