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Anonymous

U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party
    #2702068 - 05/19/04 05:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

U.S. Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Party

"BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A U.S. helicopter fired on a wedding party in the remote desert near the border with Syria, killing more than 40 people, most of them women and children, Iraqi officials said. The U.S. military said it was investigating..."

christ.  :thumbdown:  i wonder if they used a missile or what...

anyone recall that film of those insurgents getting taken out by that apache helicopter?



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Offlined33p
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2702080 - 05/19/04 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thats pretty bad....

Are most Iraqi weddings held in the middle of the night in a very desolate wasteland?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2702101 - 05/19/04 05:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

God, I was afraid the Iraq invasion would make us look bad, but this is just too much.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2702121 - 05/19/04 05:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Iraqis interviewed on the videotape said revelers had fired volleys of gunfire into the air in a traditional wedding celebration before the attack took place. American troops have sometimes mistaken celebratory gunfire for hostile fire.




That seems to be a very bad idea.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2702453 - 05/19/04 07:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Indeed. Unfortunately celebratory gunfire seems to be a popular custom in Iraq and Afghanistan. Countless wedding parties have been wiped out in the last 3 years because of itchy trigger fingers.  :nonono:

Maybe the American troops need to re-evaluate their rules of engagement.


--------------------
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Invisiblejp411896
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2702871 - 05/19/04 09:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.j...=20040519ANS128

U.S. Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Party
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A U.S. helicopter fired on a wedding party in the remote desert near the border with Syria, killing more than 40 people, most of them women and children, Iraqi officials said. The U.S. military said it was investigating.

Associated Press Television News footage showed a truck containing bloodied bodies, many wrapped in blankets, piled one atop the other. Several were children, one of whom had been decapitated.

The attack occurred about 2:45 a.m. in a desert region near the border with Syria and Jordan, according to Lt. Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi. He said between 42 and 45 people died, including 15 children and 10 women. Dr. Salah al-Ani, who works at a hospital in Ramadi, put the death toll at 45.

The area, a desolate region populated only by shepherds, is popular with smugglers, including weapons smugglers, and the U.S. military suspects militants use it as a route to slip in from Syria to fight the Americans. It is under constant surveillance by American forces.


Iraqis interviewed on the videotape said revelers had fired volleys of gunfire into the air in a traditional wedding celebration before the attack took place. American troops have sometimes mistaken celebratory gunfire for hostile fire.


Lt. Col. Dan Williams, a U.S. military spokesman, said the military was investigating.


``I cannot comment on this because we have not received any reports from our units that this has happened nor that any were involved in such a tragedy,'' Williams wrote in an e-mail in response to a question from The Associated Press.


``We take all these requests seriously and we have forwarded this inquiry to the Joint Operations Center for further review and any other information that may be available,'' Williams said.


The video footage showed mourners with shovels digging graves over a wide dusty area in Ramadi, the provincial capital where the bodies had been taken to obtain death certificates. A group of men crouched and wept around one coffin.


Al-Ani, the doctor, said people at the wedding fired weapons in the air, and that American troops came to investigate and left. However, al-Ani said, helicopters later arrived and attacked the area. Two houses were destroyed, he said.


``This was a wedding and the (U.S.) planes came and attacked the people at a house. Is this the democracy and freedom that (President) Bush has brought us?'' said a man on the videotape, Dahham Harraj. ``There was no reason.''


Another man shown on the tape, who refused to give his name, said the victims were at a wedding party ``and the U.S. military planes came... and started killing everyone in the house.''


In July 2002, Afghan officials said 48 civilians at a wedding party were killed and 117 wounded by a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan's Uruzgan province. An investigative report released by the U.S. Central Command said the airstrike was justified because American planes had come under fire.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2703234 - 05/19/04 11:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Apparently the Army thought they were shooting at a terrorist safe house. Very unfortunate incident to be sure if it was just a wedding party. Unfortunately this is part of war.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: shakta]
    #2703883 - 05/20/04 01:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Unfortunately this is part of war.

What "war" are you referring to?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Xlea321]
    #2703933 - 05/20/04 01:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I thought the mission was accomplished.

:confused:




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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2704297 - 05/20/04 03:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

For nukes, they have this elaborate system to make it so no one man can fire a nuke...

But they give these machines, with all their firepower, to one or two guys. Instead of a soldier shooting a person or two (a tragedy on it's own), 40 people are killed by weapon systems designed to tear tank armor apart...at the command of one man's hands :mad:


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: shakta]
    #2704467 - 05/20/04 04:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

shakta: Unfortunately this is part of war.

yuck. This has nothing at all to do with war, its just another perfect example of the American military's psychotic lack of respect for human life, ignorance and stupidity. (not to mention a complete lack of cultural understanding and military intelligence)

If you are going to dream up petty rationalizations, think them through.

luvdemshrooms: That seems to be a very bad idea.

double yuck. Cant you just be shocked, saddened ans ashamed? how can you in any way, attempt to blame this on these people, who were obviously raped of their lives????


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Positronius]
    #2704502 - 05/20/04 05:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

While it's a shame, shooting guns into the air is plainly a very stupid thing to do.

Like it or not, they share the blame.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: shakta]
    #2704546 - 05/20/04 06:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey Shak! good to see you back...I see your absence hasnt made u any wiser!! j/k!  :grin:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: GazzBut]
    #2705045 - 05/20/04 12:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure he's ever really been away Gazz... :laugh:


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Invisibleshroomerylurker
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #2705269 - 05/20/04 01:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by shroomerylurker


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: shroomerylurker]
    #2705319 - 05/20/04 01:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Bingo :wink:

They've become so obsessed with force protection and having a low body count (only on their side, though) that collateral damage doesn't matter anymore.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Positronius]
    #2705385 - 05/20/04 01:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

military intelligence




2 words combined that cant make sense.


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Offlined33p
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: shroomerylurker]
    #2706824 - 05/20/04 06:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

shroomerylurker said:
I can tell you what I think happens.

American's don't send troops down to investagate there intelegence leads.

They would rather kill other's civilans then send home a few more body bags with US flags rapped around them.

Most likely the people they got there info from had a political reason to have US guns take them out.

seems simple to me, but I am not claming to know everything.




Maybe all of the insurgents should disguise all their actives as weddings. This way they can fire all they want and when American's go to investigate it is just wedding celebration.

What a great idea.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: GazzBut]
    #2708375 - 05/20/04 11:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Hey Shak! good to see you back...I see your absence hasnt made u any wiser!! j/k!  :grin:




I can see that all of you are relying on the same old tired arguments. :evil:

Let's have a quick review.

1. The phase of the war to take over Iraq is over. No one ever said the war was over.

2. The mission to oust Saddam was completed, thus mission accomplished.

This is so very simple I can't believe some of you still don't get it. I swear I almost want Bush to lose the election so we get to nitpic everything the flip flopper says. :grin:


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: ]
    #2709291 - 05/21/04 02:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

not supriseing. ive got a unreleased CNN clip with soldiers killing inocent iraqis walking down the street like its a game, then laughing about it when the reporter interveiws them


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2710067 - 05/21/04 07:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
not supriseing. ive got a unreleased CNN clip with soldiers killing inocent iraqis walking down the street like its a game, then laughing about it when the reporter interveiws them




Id like to see that.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: jp411896]
    #2712862 - 05/21/04 10:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The attack occurred about 2:45 a.m. in a desert region near the border with Syria and Jordan, according to Lt. Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi. He said between 42 and 45 people died, including 15 children and 10 women. Dr. Salah al-Ani, who works at a hospital in Ramadi, put the death toll at 45.

The area, a desolate region populated only by shepherds, is popular with smugglers, including weapons smugglers, and the U.S. military suspects militants use it as a route to slip in from Syria to fight the Americans. It is under constant surveillance by American forces.





2:45 in the AM eh. A wedding reception at 2:45 AM? Now I know it's a different culture, but let's look at this rationally.

Who in the hell has a wedding reception just a few hours before dawn, WITH children, in a desolate area of the country known to be heavily used by anti-American forces?
And more importantly, in that situation, what jackass thought it would be a GREAT IDEA to shoot wildly into the air. At 2:45 in the morning. In an area the Americans patrol heavily to try and control the activities of the enemy.

Seriously doesn't this whole thing stink of bullshit to you? It should. Because if they're not lying about the wedding reception thing, the only other two alternatives are either these two particular Iraqi families are severely, SEVERELY retarded, or they somehow decided to get themselves shot at, to make us look bad. Which I guess is pretty retarded anyway.

Quote:

yuck. This has nothing at all to do with war, its just another perfect example of the American military's psychotic lack of respect for human life, ignorance and stupidity. (not to mention a complete lack of cultural understanding and military intelligence)




... what. No really. WHAT? I think THIS (right above) is a perfect example of the psychotic America-does-no-right mentality that's so pervasive. What would you have done in that situation. No one was informed of a wedding, it's TWO FORTY FUCKING FIVE IN THE MORNING, and suddenly, someone starts shooting. Not bang-bang, but didn't they have AK's? Like the guys killing Americans?
So unidentified force starts shooting, there's no way really to tell if they're shooting at you or not, and it's the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.
Please tell me you would have assumed it was a wedding. Because then I can call you a liar.

Quote:

They've become so obsessed with force protection and having a low body count (only on their side, though) that collateral damage doesn't matter anymore.




Hey I think I got something to mention about that.
Remember when Clin-Ton shot those Tomahawks into Baghdad during Ramadan? They weren't precision munitions. The delivery system is, but those particular tomahawks carried cluster bomblets. Anti-personnel. Tiny bombs that spread over a large area with the expressed purpose of injuring and killing a large number of people.
'Course none of the major news outlets picked up on it, I didn't hear of Iraqis being injured or hurt -- but I'm sure some were. If not I think the entire tomahawk/cluster munition package should be scrapped, because that's what it's designed to do. Not to precisely take out radar sites on rooftops, like they were trying to do.

Quote:

I swear I almost want Bush to lose the election so we get to nitpic everything the flip flopper says.




But we won't be able to have fun doing it, remember? When everyone tried that with the Clintons, suddenly there was a "Vast, Right-Wing Conspiracy" to sully their good name. The mistakes of Republican politicians are generally thrown right on out in front of everyone's face, the mistakes of Democratic politicians are quietly swept under rugs. If Kerry wins, I bet it's not 2 months before CNN declares him the Second Coming of Christ. Bleh. I bet the man whacks off to a picture of himself.


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2712871 - 05/21/04 10:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I thought about that 2:45 in the morning thing. Then I thought about all the weddings I've been to, and I will say that at 95% of them, the reception went on well until 3, sometimes 4 am. I don't see it being all that unusual.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: adrug]
    #2714851 - 05/22/04 03:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think you are telling the truth here. I personally can recall only one after wedding party that went past midnight and it was NOT the reception. Most places here are compelled to close well before the hours you mention. And there were certainly no children present. If firing weapons is a wedding tradition in Iraq, CHANGE IT, at least for now.

If it happened, it sucks; if it didn't, good. I await further reports. The continued lack of reports is somewhat fishy. Some people in NYC pay to have people do to them what these Abu Graib "victims" got. Those reports have been hysteria-ized so much that I can't imagine real deaths being ignored. Like I said, I await further reports.


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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2714883 - 05/22/04 04:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You can think whatever you want, but almost every wedding I have been to had a reception that went on well past 2 in the morning. I don't see why I would lie about something as insignificant and trivial as this.


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2715041 - 05/22/04 05:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

US: No evidence of wedding at attack site

"...[Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt] said that troops did not find anything -- such as a wedding tent, gifts, musical instruments, decorations or leftover food -- that would indicate that a wedding had been held.

Most of the men there were of military age, and there were no elders present to indicate a family event, he said.

What was found, he said, indicated the building was used as a waypoint for foreign fighters crossing into Iraq from Syria to battle the coalition.

"The building seemed to be somewhat of a dormitory," Kimmitt said. "You had over 300 sets of bedding gear in it. You had a tremendous number of pre-packaged clothing -- apparently about a hundred sets of pre-packaged clothing; (It is) expected that when foreign fighters come in from other countries, they come to this location, they change their clothes into typical Iraqi clothing sets."

At Saturday's briefing for reporters in Baghdad, Kimmitt showed photos of what he said were binoculars designed for adjusting artillery fire, battery packs suitable for improvised explosive devices, several terrorist training manuals, medical gear, fake ID cards and ID card-making machines, passports and telephone numbers to other countries, including Afghanistan and Sudan.

None of the men killed in the raid carried ID cards or wallets, he said. "We feel that that was an indicator that this was a high risk meeting of high level anti-coalition forces. There was a tremendous number of incriminating pocket litter, a lot of telephone numbers to foreign countries, Afghanistan, Sudan and a number of others."

Kimmitt said while the location was purported to be a sheep ranch, there was no evidence of ranching activities and no livestock.

He said that the coalition would continue to have an open mind about what might have happened, and he conceded there were some inconsistencies still to be worked out.

"The more that we look at intelligence, more we dig in, more we are persuaded no wedding," Kimmitt said.

"We had significant, multiple sources of intelligence" before ordering the raid, he said...."


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2715057 - 05/22/04 05:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So their justification is that AFTERwards they discovered it wasn't a wedding? They're basically saying that they thought it was/could be a wedding when they attacked. That doesn't make it any better. Feh.


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: unbeliever]
    #2715098 - 05/22/04 05:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"We had significant, multiple sources of intelligence" before ordering the raid, he said...."


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2715107 - 05/22/04 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"The more that we look at intelligence, more we dig in, more we are persuaded no wedding," Kimmitt said.

That to me indicates current investigations into the past event of the attack. That is, they are only now, after the attack, concluding that it was not a wedding party.


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: unbeliever]
    #2715148 - 05/22/04 06:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

perhaps you should read it again. he's saying that they had intelligence prior to the raid that it was a staging zone for insurgents (or at the very least, not a wedding party).

...unless you think that the commanders ordered the helicopter gunner to shoot up a random gathering at 2 in the morning in the middle of the desert, and they just got lucky.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2715173 - 05/22/04 06:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Considering how long it took for this new "spin" to come out on the story, I think it's very possible. Anyway, yes it said they had intelligence prior to the attack, but not that it indicated whether it was a wedding party or not. Everything else in what you posted is evidence of discovery, after the fact.

Quote:

None of the men killed in the raid carried ID cards or wallets, he said. "We feel that that was an indicator that this was a high risk meeting of high level anti-coalition forces. There was a tremendous number of incriminating pocket litter, a lot of telephone numbers to foreign countries, Afghanistan, Sudan and a number of others."




Killed. Past tense. They people in the heliocoptor had no way of knowing what was in the pockets of the people they were firing on.

Quote:

Kimmitt said while the location was purported to be a sheep ranch, there was no evidence of ranching activities and no livestock.




Proving nothing except that what they attacked.. wasn't a sheep ranch.

Quote:

What was found, he said, indicated the building was used as a waypoint for foreign fighters crossing into Iraq from Syria to battle the coalition.




Found. Past tense.

I'm not saying that there is no other possiblity than the worse case scenario (they attacked with the understanding it was a wedding party), rather I'm just saying that based on what you posted, that scenario is something to consider and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Even the General admitted there wasn't a clear answer yet.

Quote:

He said that the coalition would continue to have an open mind about what might have happened, and he conceded there were some inconsistencies still to be worked out.




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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: unbeliever]
    #2715194 - 05/22/04 06:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

so what you're saying is that you do believe that commanders ordered the helicopter gunner to shoot up a random gathering (or what they thought to be a wedding party) at 2 in the morning in the middle of the desert, and they just got lucky?


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: unbeliever]
    #2715199 - 05/22/04 06:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

unbeliever said:
Considering how long it took for this new "spin" to come out on the story, I think it's very possible. Anyway, yes it said they had intelligence prior to the attack, but not that it indicated whether it was a wedding party or not. Everything else in what you posted is evidence of discovery, after the fact.




The only thing that the US militarymen knew was that they were being fired upon. The wedding thing came after the fact by, apparently, lying arabs.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715218 - 05/22/04 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

so what you're saying is that you do believe that commanders ordered the helicopter gunner to shoot up a random gathering (or what they thought to be a wedding party) at 2 in the morning in the middle of the desert, and they just got lucky?




I believe in the possiblity. Nothing more.

Quote:

The only thing that the US militarymen knew was that they were being fired upon. The wedding thing came after the fact by, apparently, lying arabs.




And if that's all it was, that's great. The only point of concern is the fact that this was a planned raid. Whether or not it was a wedding party is irrelevant. Based on what I've read so far concerning the pre-op intel is that they simply did not know what they were going to find, yet they attacked anyway. It seems fate really did favour the bold this time and they wound up with what appears to be some sort of terrorist or rebel camp. Bully for them.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2717653 - 05/23/04 09:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"We had significant, multiple sources of intelligence" before ordering the raid, he said...."

Sounds like what they said about WMD...


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Xlea321]
    #2717655 - 05/23/04 09:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

but this time it looks like they were right.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2717656 - 05/23/04 09:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you believe Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt..


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Xlea321]
    #2717690 - 05/23/04 10:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

eh.


Edited by mushmaster (05/23/04 10:33 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2717920 - 05/23/04 12:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

He's the guy your article quotes.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Xlea321]
    #2721118 - 05/24/04 01:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

"We had significant, multiple sources of intelligence" before ordering the raid, he said...."

Sounds like what they said about WMD...




Actually.

A 155mm artillery shell was found exploded by a roadside. That had contained serin gas.. and well hey thats a wmd. was said the military doesnt believe the bomber knew it wasn't a HE round. Which is pretty easy to tell, if they knew it was a nerve gas they would've exploded it near people, where it could spread, explosive woulda been set to hit something differently..

so they weren't ENTIRELY wrong, maybe just not as right.

But so far as this is concerned.. remember:

Quote:

Al-Ani, the doctor, said people at the wedding fired weapons in the air, and that American troops came to investigate and left. However, al-Ani said, helicopters later arrived and attacked the area. Two houses were destroyed, he said




So according to Al-Ani, the lying doctor, American troops came to check this shit out and were told it was a wedding party. This is speculation, but I think that when they saw that there wasn't really a celebration, that there wasn't really two families gathered there, they decided to get the fuck out. Then there was gunfire at some point, 'wedding celebration' gunfire, but I guess there wasn't a wedding so I guess it was probably at US forces. So they sent them directly to hell, without passing go or collecting 200 virgins.

Quote:

I thought about that 2:45 in the morning thing. Then I thought about all the weddings I've been to, and I will say that at 95% of them, the reception went on well until 3, sometimes 4 am. I don't see it being all that unusual.




But were the kids up that late... no young kids cant stay up that late.
Though honestly if they were having a wedding in a desert they probably waited till night, when it was cooler, to have it.. so it probably wasn't that long after the wedding. probably still several hours, and thats still real late for kids. whatever, i dunno, cant say i really know iraqi wedding tradition -- but kids at 2:45 am, that's nuts.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2721165 - 05/24/04 01:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Here's the latest news. More evidence that it was in fact a wedding party.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...40&ncid=716

RAMADI, Iraq - A videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.

The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters.

"There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too."

But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent.

The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car ? decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up.

An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video ? which runs for several hours.

APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs.

A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom . . .

(More at the link)


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2721426 - 05/24/04 04:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was 12 and stayed at my older sister's wedding reception until 3:30 am. My little sister was 9. :\


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: adrug]
    #2721582 - 05/24/04 05:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5233418

Quote:

Iraq Wedding Film Challenges U.S. on Air Strike
Mon May 24, 2004 04:31 AM ET

By Tom Perry
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - New video showing Iraqis singing and dancing at a desert wedding begged more questions on Monday about a U.S. air strike last week that killed about 40 people.

The U.S. military has insisted most of the dead were foreign guerrilla fighters who had slipped over the nearby Syrian border. Local people say the Americans massacred wedding guests.

Associated Press Television News said it obtained the footage from a survivor of the strike early on May 19.

The U.S. military says troops found no signs of a wedding in the wreckage left at the remote hamlet of Mogr al-Deeb. But a spokesman, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, conceded on Saturday that six women were killed in the strike and a celebration may have been taking place: "Bad people have parties too," he said.

The film shows pick-up trucks racing across the desert -- many of the dead came from the regional capital Ramadi -- men dancing in a tent, children playing and a musician playing an electric organ. The same man later appeared dead in a shroud.

Ultimately the truth may count for less than the perception; many Iraqis, exasperated by 14 months of occupation and by a scandal over the abuse of prisoners by U.S. soldiers, find it easy to believe a tale of American brutality or incompetence.

The video is unwelcome news for Washington on a day when it is to present a proposal at the United Nations seeking approval for its continued military presence in Iraq following a handover of sovereignty to an interim government on June 30.

Nor will it help President Bush, who is to make a televised speech to the nation at midnight GMT that will lay out his strategy in Iraq. Bush's chances of re-election in November have suffered as Americans question the cost in lives and dollars of occupying Iraq.

It remains to be seen how close an ally the future independent Iraq will be to Washington.

U.N. CRITICISM

The top U.N. human rights official, Bertrand Ramcharan, said even if some of those at the house in Mogr al-Deeb were involved in criminal activity, that was no excuse for killing so many people. Continued ...




See pages 2 & 3 of article for more.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: ]
    #2722205 - 05/24/04 12:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

but this time it looks like they were right

Still think the Brigadier was telling the truth mush?


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Xlea321]
    #2725798 - 05/25/04 02:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'd still like to hear what anyone else would do in the middle of a desert known to harbor people who want to kill you, at 2:45am, when all of a sudden a hail of gunfire opens up out of nowhere..


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Offlinewrong
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2725947 - 05/25/04 02:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

erm, sit down and have a picnic?


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Pa [Re: wrong]
    #2742429 - 05/28/04 08:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Good answer, good answer.. survey SAYS! 2. I'm so sorry. Top answer: Crap yourself.. crap yourself.


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