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 wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
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 Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13?  [Re: Azmodeus]
#1505036 - 04/29/03 03:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Question: do you think that more civilians died during our invasion of Iraq than would have under another decade of Baathist rule? Or even a single year?
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 Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505046 - 04/29/03 03:50 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Question: do you think that more civilians died during our invasion of Iraq than would have under another decade of Baathist rule? Or even a single year?"
Of course not. But I bet someone says yes....Betcha...
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
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Funny enough, out of the guys we lost, a similar number would have died under peacetime conditions due to traffic accidents, disease, etc... Especially in the younger age brackets that most of the grunts fall into. In the first gulf war the casualty rate was lower than the normal number of deaths that would have occurred out of 500,000 people.
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Azmodeus
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Quote:
"Its hard for me to comment on ww2, and korea as im quite young and am relatively ignorant on the topics. "
Well, then. Let me enlighten you. Pearl Harbor was not an invasion, it was a raid. Japan DID conquer 2 (two) rocky islands near Alaska. Now, the day after Pearl Harbor, we declared war on Germany, who had most certainly NOT invaded us.
That was wrong, right?
Weren't japan and germany allies at the time?! Were you not preventing direct future attacks from both countries?
If japan bombs pearl harbour and the US declares war on germany that is wrong.
In Korea, the Communist north invaded the Capitalist south, with the aid of China. We kicked their ass, and then China kicked our ass...It was a draw, but it taught China not to meddle with us. Even Vietnam, when they had their war, got more support from Russia and Cuba than it did from China.
But china couldn't handle it themselves? What about other nations effected by n.koreas actions?! couldn't they have resolved thier issue?
Taught china not to mettle with you? Wasn't america allied with china to help s.korea? what happened? Sounds like nobody was taught anything...
Quote:
Sometimes, War is necessary, whether your invaded or not. Unless, your a pacifist, in which case, my arguments arent directed at you.
I fail to see how an unprovoked war is nescessary. Sorry, but i dont feel very "enlightened" by your post.
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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505085 - 04/29/03 04:00 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Question: do you think that more civilians died during our invasion of Iraq than would have under another decade of Baathist rule? Or even a single year?
Answer: No.
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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
Lest we forget. "
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1505112 - 04/29/03 04:04 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Taught china not to mettle with you? Wasn't america allied with china to help s.korea? what happened? Sounds like nobody was taught anything...
China allied with North Korea. When US and UN troops pushed too far north, they were attacked by Chinese troops they did not expect. Basically, China wanted to keep North Korea as a buffer nation between themselves and the south. Same reason the Soviets took Hungary, Poland, etc...
The US had no immediate interest in saving South Korea, we did it on principle, to set precedent. The UN joined in, and they avoided a Security Council veto only because Russia was boycotting the council at the time.
Take a look at N & S Koreas now and tell me how it's worked out for them. We should have taken the north when we were there, instead of dicking around on the 38th parallel for 2 years.
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1505131 - 04/29/03 04:08 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Answer: No.
If inaction would have cost more lives than what we did, then why nitpick out efforts? I'm sorry that anyone has to die, but as it is far fewer will die now. There is no magic third way where nobody dies.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505158 - 04/29/03 04:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vietnam had no personal stake in stopping the Kmher Rhouge(sp?) from butchering their own people. They were still doing the right thing. There were innocents killed in the invasion, but less than if Pol Pot had been able to continue.
Vietnam didn't invade Cambodia because they wanted to "do the right thing." It was a border dispute that prompted them to invade.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Azmodeus
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505172 - 04/29/03 04:18 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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The third way is revolt. The people themselves achieve liberation, not have it spoon-fed to them, and told what it is.
Sorry. Fighting for another people's liberation voids any worth it would have to them.
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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
Lest we forget. "
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Skikid16
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1505237 - 04/29/03 04:34 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorry. Fighting for another people's liberation voids any worth it would have to them.
I think some Jews would beg to differ with you on this point, namely those that were liberated from the concentration camps.
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Re-Defeat Bush in '04
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: silversoul7]
#1505540 - 04/29/03 06:08 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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The border dispute didn't require toppling Pol Pot. I'm sure there was a lot more than altruism work, though.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505871 - 04/29/03 07:53 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Vietnam had no personal stake in stopping the Kmher Rhouge(sp?) from butchering their own people. "
Agreed. South Vietnam had a personal stake in restoring stable government to Cambodia in order to shut down the flow of Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army supplies through the incredibly porous border....
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: wingnutx]
#1505877 - 04/29/03 07:56 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The border dispute didn't require toppling Pol Pot. I'm sure there was a lot more than altruism work, though.
True, it didn't require toppling him, but he was basically a thorn in their side, so they basically figured that as long as they're attacking, they might as well kill two birds with one stone.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: silversoul7]
#1505902 - 04/29/03 08:06 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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"The US had no immediate interest in saving South Korea, we did it on principle, to set precedent."
What about the coupla thousand U.S. troops already there, as well as our recovering colony of Japan just a hop, skip and a jump away?
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Please reply to the correct person.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
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Re: U.S. Soldiers Kill 13? [Re: silversoul7]
#1505922 - 04/29/03 08:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bah...Sorry. That was my fault....I apologize. I'm a creature of habit...
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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