Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Israel urged to murder civilians
    #3110765 - 09/09/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Israeli Rabbis: Don't Spare Civilians

A group of prominent Jewish rabbis have asked the Israeli army not to flinch from killing Palestinian civilians in the context of the ongoing military campaign against armed groups resisting the occupation.

In a letter to the Israeli defence minister, Shaul Mofaz, published on Tuesday, the rabbis said killing enemy civilians is "normal" during the time of war and that the Israeli occupation army should never hesitate to kill non-Jewish civilians in order to save Jewish lives.

"There is no war in the world in which it is possible to delineate entirely between the population and the enemy army, neither in the US war in Iraq, the Russian war in Chechnya, nor in Israel's war with its enemies," the rabbis said.

The rabbis quoted a Talmudic edict, or religious ruling, stating that "our lives come first".

"The Christian preaching of 'turning the other cheek' doesn't concern us, and we will not be impressed by those who prefer the lives of our enemies to our lives," they said.

Opposing branches

The letter was signed by a number of Israeli rabbis including Haim Druckman, a former Knesset member who heads a large religious youth movement known as the Bnei Akiva Society; Eliezer Melamed, head of a West Bank religious college; and Youval Sharlo, the head of another Talmudic college in Petah Tikva which combines Talmudic studies with active military service.

It is worth noting that many rabbis, especially within Conservative and Reform Judaism, don't share the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox view of non-Jews.

But the Conservative and Reform branches of Judaism, despite their numerical superiority, have very little influence in Israel and are generally mistreated by the powerful Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox branches, who view secular Jews as somehow less than real Jews.

Incidentally, a few months ago a prominent rabbi in the Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arbaa near Hebron issued an edict stating that non-Jewish civilians may be killed to save Jewish lives, soldiers and civilians alike.

The rabbi, Dov Lior, argued that non-Jewish lives had no sanctity, especially during the time of war.

Lior has publicly praised and eulogised Baruch Goldstein, an American Jewish settler who in 1994 mowed down 29 Arab worshippers who were praying at Hebron's Ibrahimi Mosque.

Calling Goldstein a "great saint", he said a "thousand non-Jewish lives are not worth a Jew's fingernail".

Talmudic maxim

Earlier this year, Lior enthusiastically supported the killing of Palestinian civilians in Rafah in southern Gaza, saying that "it is very clear in light of the Torah that Jewish lives are more important than non-Jewish lives".


"The Christian preaching of 'turning the other cheek' doesn't concern us, and we will not be impressed by those who prefer the lives of our enemies to our lives"

Prominent Israeli rabbis in letter to Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz

In formulating their theological positions, Lior and other like-minded rabbis rely on an old Talmudic maxim which states that it is a mitzvah (imperative religious duty) to kill enemy civilians in war time.

The same rabbis also often quote Torah verses in which God is shown instructing the ancient Israelites to annihilate the Canaanites in ancient Palestine.

Since the outbreak of al-Aqsa Intifada in September 2000, the Israeli army and paramilitary Jewish groups have killed as many as 3500 Palestinians, the bulk of them civilians, including more than 600 children and minors.

During the same period, Palestinian fighters have killed nearly a thousand Israeli soldiers, settlers and civilians.

http://www.aljazeera.com/


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Zahid]
    #3110799 - 09/09/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That's fucked up.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,148
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Zahid]
    #3110813 - 09/09/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So your saying that a few radical Jewish religious leaders represent Israel as a whole?

Isnt this the ideology that you fight against every day on this board, when someone says that a few radical Muslim religious leaders represent Arabs as a whole?

I would expect, after years of war, that some people on each side would be for killing civilians and fighting a total war....this is nothing new...



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: DieCommie]
    #3110836 - 09/09/04 12:29 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm simply posting this for those who believe only Islam has fanatic problems.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Zahid]
    #3110894 - 09/09/04 12:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:

Since the outbreak of al-Aqsa Intifada in September 2000, the Israeli army and paramilitary Jewish groups have killed as many as 3500 Palestinians, the bulk of them civilians, including more than 600 children and minors.

During the same period, Palestinian fighters have killed nearly a thousand Israeli [soldiers, settlers and civilians.

http://www.aljazeera.com/




Al-Jazeera is full of it. What 'Jewish Paramilitary' groups targeting Palestinian children? Please name a single example.

Second, Al-Jazeera claims that most Palestinians killed were civilians, and that Israelis killed were in descending order "soldiers, settlers (not civilian?) and (non-settler) civilians. The wording here clearly implies that the Palestinians have been 'fighting' against (not using suicide bombings) against legitimate Israelis targets, but Israelis target children.
What a bunch of crap.

Here it is again, the facts show the exact opposite:

'Almost 1900 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the ?al-Aqsa Intifada?, compared to almost 700 Israelis. Numbers like these are used to create an image of lopsided slaughter, with Israel cast as the villain. But such numbers distort the true picture: They lump combatants in with noncombatants, suicide bombers with innocent civilians, and report Palestinian ?collaborators? murdered by their own compatriots as if they had been killed by Israel.

More meaningful figures show that Israel is responsible for some 733 Palestinian noncombatant deaths, while Palestinians have killed 546 Israeli noncombatants. Over 54 percent of the Palestinians killed were actively involved in fighting ? and this does not include stone-throwers or ?unknowns?. And Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 253 of their own number ? more than one out of every eight Palestinians killed.

On the Israeli side, 80 percent of those killed have been noncombatants. While Israelis account for about 27 percent of the total ?Intifada? fatalities, they represent over 43 percent of the noncombatant victims.'

http://www.ict.org.il/arab_isr/arab-isr_frame.htm


Given those claims I cannot take the rest of the article seriously.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3110923 - 09/09/04 12:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, paranoid types think all media is shit.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Zahid]
    #3111030 - 09/09/04 12:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Man, this is on par with all the Arab stories about Jews making Passover bread with human blood, or the Protocol of the Elders of Zion secretly plotting to take over the world and kill all Muslims and Christians.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3111134 - 09/09/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The article still stands.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Zahid]
    #3111236 - 09/09/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

*ahem* www.aljazeera.com - Pardon us if we don't really trust that source? I'm not saying that the article is without merit simply because of that, but, hah, well, i'm sure you can see what I mean


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: retread]
    #3111306 - 09/09/04 01:41 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Not really - it's not any different how people around here quote CNN, BBC, or Fox News; both Rightists and Leftists quote these News sources.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 29 days, 18 hours
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3112474 - 09/09/04 08:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the facts show the exact opposite:




Big bold letters...ooh thats impressive!

How do you know these are THE FACTS ?? Answer: You dont. You just hope and believe they are.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
Re: Israel urged to murder civilians [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3112558 - 09/09/04 09:06 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> Man, this is on par with all the Arab stories about Jews making Passover bread with human blood

I have a very good friend that is Jewish and now lives in Isreal. He explained his position with respect to the Palestinian's, and it matches up with the quotes in Zahid's post. I don't remember the specifics any longer, but more or less, there are some Jewish people that believe genocide is the proper way to deal with the 'Palestinian problem'.

> *ahem* www.aljazeera.com - Pardon us if we don't really trust that source?

I don't trust any source and I read a lot of them: bbc, cnn, aljazeera, fox news, reuters, etc. Aljazeera is a obvsiouly very biased, but I have never seen them fabricate stories or make something up (which I have seen on both Fox News and USA Today). Other than the bias, aljazeera is a pretty good news site... though at times I wish I knew how to read arabic.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* PROOF ISRAEL IS KILLING PALESTINEAN CHILDREN!!!
( 1 2 3 all )
Teiro 3,918 51 10/29/02 12:16 PM
by Innvertigo
* Israel's Democracy Dilemma
( 1 2 all )
Zahid 2,650 22 11/08/03 12:19 PM
by Psilocybeingzz
* Cowboys and Injuns (err, Israel and Palestine, cont'd)
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
figgusfiddus 7,451 100 07/11/07 04:02 PM
by figgusfiddus
* Israel to liquidate Hamas.
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
shakta 9,611 235 08/30/03 01:04 PM
by Xlea321
* US troops murder civilians - 2 more cases Vvellum 457 3 06/02/06 10:17 PM
by downforpot
* Israel-US Approved Ethnic Cleansing
( 1 2 all )
headphone 3,327 20 09/03/01 10:05 PM
by zetek
* Israel
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
fireworks_godS 6,593 139 09/15/06 09:26 PM
by Luddite
* question regarding Israel's supposed "targeted" bombings
( 1 2 3 all )
Vvellum 2,502 49 08/16/06 11:05 PM
by RosettaStoned

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
678 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.074 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.