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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 25 days, 14 hours
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
    #1854352 - 08/27/03 09:54 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

other side of the coin, is the fact that you seem to think the militants are some kind of noble downtrodden army or something.




No I dont. Where have I ever said that? You assume far to much as usual.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 25 days, 14 hours
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: ]
    #1854354 - 08/27/03 09:55 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

their beef with israel is that it EXISTS. short of the annihilation of israel, there is nothing that will pacify many of these extremists




Very emotive. Now try proving it.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Posts: 4,773
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1854356 - 08/27/03 09:56 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

That is so weak! sooooo sooo weak!


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1854359 - 08/27/03 09:57 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Unless Arafat looks like Ghandi to you, get over it.


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854361 - 08/27/03 09:58 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Very emotive. Now try proving it.




It is common knowledge. Did you read what I posted?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
    #1854363 - 08/27/03 09:59 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It is common knowledge

:lol:



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
    #1854365 - 08/27/03 10:01 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Unless Arafat looks like Ghandi to you, get over it.

Gazz stated a solution to the conflict which you poured scorn on by saying all that brings peace from war is to "kill all aggressors".

I repeat, read the story of Gandhi to see how nonsensical your views are.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1854368 - 08/27/03 10:06 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I know about Ghandi. I am saying one does not exist in this conflict. The comparison is weak at best. What is so funny about stating that Hamas wants the Israelis gone, is common knowledge? It is, as their mission statement proves.


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Anonymous

Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854384 - 08/27/03 10:14 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

IN FACT IF ANY OF YOU MENTAL DWARFS OUT THERE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE PEACE CAN BE ACHIEVED BY KILLING PEOPLE WOULD CARE TO EXPLAIN HOW EXACTLY THIS WORKS I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL. I MEAN ACTUAL NUTS AND BOLTS OF HOW EXACTLY IT WORKS NOT MORE WHINING ALONG THE LINES OF THEY STARTED IT BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!

there are palestinians with legitimate grievances. they wish to see an end to israeli military actions against their people. they want statehood. they want to see an end to the violence.

there are others who want nothing but the destruction of israel. they do not want to see the violence stop until the jews are driven into the sea. read up about hamas and islamic jihad and what their goals are. these groups do not have legitimate grievances. their fundamental tenet is intolerance and anti-semitism. they care nothing for the peace process, and nothing for palestinian statehood, as it is a compromise that leaves them short of their intended goal: the destruction of israel and the creation of an islamic theocracy in its place. these people cannot be pacified. there will not be peace until they are dead or the israelis are dead, and that's a statement they'd agree with.


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Anonymous

Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854397 - 08/27/03 10:19 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

"What does Hamas believe?

Hamas combines the ideas of Palestinian nationalism and religious fundamentalism. Its founding charter pledges the group to carry out armed struggle, try to destroy Israel and replace Arafat?s government with an Islamist state on the West Bank and Gaza, and raise ?the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.? Hamas leaders gloated openly over a March 2002 suicide bombing that killed 28 Israelis at a Passover seder, calling it ?a great success,? welcoming Israeli retaliation as a way to recruit more supporters, and hailing the weapon of suicide bombings as the ?F-16? of the Palestinian people. Hamas believes ?peace talks will do no good,? said the group?s main spokesman, Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi. ?We do not believe we can live with the enemy.?"

Hamas Q & A's



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854401 - 08/27/03 10:21 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe, but it was also sooo sooo true.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: ]
    #1854846 - 08/27/03 12:41 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well proven!

But surely Hamas accounts for a very small proportion of the Palestinian population? Do you seriously think a majority of Palestinians really want to drive the Jews into the sea?


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854861 - 08/27/03 12:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It doesn't matter. Hamas, IJ, and the other group with the long name I can't remember are who the Israelis are trying to get rid of.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
    #1854901 - 08/27/03 12:56 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I've got a solution: How about we nuke Israel AND Palestine, and let God sort 'em out? Then, any surviving Israelis and Palestinians will be united in their hatred towards us.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1854906 - 08/27/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Um, OK. :rolleyes:


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
    #1854909 - 08/27/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

When you consider twice as many Palestinians have died who really are the most violent and dangerous people in the area?

I dont support Hamas or think that any of their attacks are justified but at the same time I dont accept the Israelis actions.
I beleive it is easier for the Israelis to stop their own violence than it is for the Palestinian leadership who exert little meaningful control over Hamas etc.

The guy in the quote summed it up when he said he welcolmed Israeli attacks as it meant more members for Hamas.

It is a circle of violence. How can more violence end it? It will only perpetuate it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1854962 - 08/27/03 01:11 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I find the following quite interesting as it shows just what scumbags the bombers are.


Skewing the Death Tolls
A statistical study reveals startling trends by breaking the death tolls down by age, gender, and other factors.



As Israel reels from today's terror attack near Emanuel, the media resorts to the old scoreboard technique of reporting that "1,500 Palestinians have been killed, compared to about 550 Israelis."

HonestReporting protests this method of reporting casualties, which makes no distinction between civilians and armed combatants, it lumps suicide bombers with their innocent civilians, and it reports Palestinian "collaborators" murdered by their own compatriots as if they had been killed by Israelis.

A new comprehensive study by the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) reveals some startling trends by breaking the death tolls down into sub-segments -- e.g. age, gender, and whether or not they were combatants.

The study shows that while the majority of Palestinian deaths in the conflict are combatants, Israeli fatalities are 80 percent noncombatants.

Researchers also found that Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 185 of their own number -- one out of every eight Palestinians killed in the conflict thus far. (In the previous wave of Palestinian violence during the late 1980s, about 800 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians as "suspected collaborators" -- amounting to about one-third of the total death toll.)

ICT researchers also found that the proportion of women in the Israeli death toll is about 30 percent. By contrast, Palestinian fatalities are overwhelmingly 95 percent male. All total, 61 Palestinian females have been killed, compared to 160 Israeli females.

Another great disproportion exists amongst noncombatants aged 40 and over, where 154 Israelis have been killed, compared to 69 Palestinians.

* * *

Unfair reporting of the casualty count has long been a thorn in the side of media watch groups. Scores of Palestinians have been wounded by Palestinian-perpetrated bus bombings. Other Palestinians have been killed or wounded while making bombs which detonated prematurely. Other Palestinian deaths were later discovered to be due intra-Palestinian crime-related activity, or even to traffic accidents.

Last year, The New York Times published an illustrated graph, comparing Jewish deaths and Arab deaths in the conflict. Many HonestReporting readers wrote to complain that the graph was misleading, and the response from Bill Borders of The Times was surprisingly curt and dismissive: "The graphs are correct because everyone that they count as dead is in fact dead. All of them."

Teen Newsweek, a magazine distributed to middle school students across America, published a chart illustrating the number of Palestinian and Israeli children killed since 1987. The Palestinian numbers, represented in bright red, many times exceed Israeli losses, shown in a less visible yellow. There is no explanation of circumstances how these children died. The implication is that there is equivalency -- even though the Palestinian children were killed while attempting martyrdom in the context of violent attacks on Israeli forces, while the Israeli children were killed while sitting on a public bus or in a cafe, blown up by a Palestinian suicide bomber.

Some media outlets simply have a hard time counting. A recent BBC article featured a photo of a burned-out Israeli bus, with the caption: "Suicide attacks have killed dozens of Israelis." Shouldn't that be "hundreds"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_2050000/2050302.stm

The ICT report is an excellent and thorough statistical analysis, complete with comparative charts and graphs. HonestReporting recommends that you refer editors to this report, and encourage them to list casualty figures more accurately.

The full ITC report is online at:
http://www.ict.org.il/researchreport/researchreport.htm

A shorter summary version is at:
http://www.ict.org.il/researchreport/projectsummary.htm


Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1854979 - 08/27/03 01:15 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The study shows that while the majority of Palestinian deaths in the conflict are combatants

And what do these far right arseholes classify as "combatants"? As far as I'm aware there isn't even a palestinian army. Are "combatants" those 10 year old kids throwing stones at tanks?

I don't suppose they mention the infamous slaughter of palestinian civilians at Sabra and Shatila either? No surprises there...



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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1854991 - 08/27/03 01:19 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, that is very informative, and pretty much kills the biggest anti-Israel argument.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1854998 - 08/27/03 01:20 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Here's a novel thought, either look at the summary or ask the authors of the study. I looked at the summary and it's broken down quite nicely.
Of course you won't believe it anyway since it goes against what it seems you'd like to believe.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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