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shakta
Infidel
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854209 - 08/27/03 08:31 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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You know it is real easy to ask them to leave the militants alone from where we are sitting. We don't have people getting blown up in our streets every day either. Israel continued to go after Hamas people like they said they would before and during the cease fire. They were not as heavy handed about it as usual. Then Hamas had to go and blow up the bus full of people. Killing a legitimate target such as a Hamas member, and blowing up a bus full of people is not the same thing, and it never will be the same thing. Abbas denounced the attack. He knew it wasn't the wise thing to do. He even said it was not in the interest of the Palestinian people. The PA has not kept up it's end of the roadmap at all. They have done nothing to dismantle the terror groups. The main reason is Arafat will not cooperate with Abbas to even try it.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
#1854220 - 08/27/03 08:46 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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The funny thing is Shakta, you harp on and on about all the Israelis who die but I dont recall you ever referring to all the innocent Palestinians who have been killed. Perhaps in your mind there is no such thing? You obviously need to be reminded that at least twice as many Palestinians have been killed in the current intifada. 20 bystanders were injured in the latest attack and at least 2 bystanders killed. I wonder how many of their families are now ready to strap some tnt on and go for a wander around Tel Aviv. Its fairly simple cause and effect wouldnt you say? I mean its hardly quantum physics is it?
So anyway, Can you explain to me how Israel are supposed to remove the militant threat without creating new militants who are outraged at seeing members of their family killed? Do you really think that the Israelis only have to kill a certain amount of Palestinians to solve the problem? Surely not....
As for following the roadmap are you honestly suggesting that the Israelis have followed the roadmap whilst only the Palestinians have been remiss in their obligations?
Whats been happening with the settlements?
The way I see it if one side were to lay down their arms and turn the other cheek, even in the face of continued attacks, eventually peace would be found. I know you will struggle to grasp this concept but I think it makes alot more sense than your method of killing more Palestinians.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Anonymous
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854237 - 08/27/03 09:05 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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The way I see it if one side were to lay down their arms and turn the other cheek, even in the face of continued attacks, eventually peace would be found.
there are alot of islamist militants out there who want to see an end to the nation of israel and its people. they're not pissed because israel's fighting against them, or that it kills palestinians or invades their settlements. their beef with israel is that it EXISTS. short of the annihilation of israel, there is nothing that will pacify many of these extremists (for example, the sort that blow up busses full of civilians in the midst of a cease-fire and peaceful negotiations).
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Rhizoid
carbon unit


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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854243 - 08/27/03 09:09 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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When terrorists target and murder innocent bystanders they use all sorts of motivation. Revenge for the killing of one of their own is only one such motive. So even if the cycle of revenge could be stopped, all the other motives behind the terrorism will remain. That's why it is better to actively hunt and incapacitate these people than it is to leave them alone, even if the hunt increases the revenge-motivated parts of the total terrorism.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: Rhizoid]
#1854245 - 08/27/03 09:12 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
When terrorists target and murder innocent bystanders they use all sorts of motivation.
I couldnt agree more Rhizoid but how do you propose we stop the Israelis?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854250 - 08/27/03 09:14 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The funny thing is Shakta, you harp on and on about all the Israelis who die but I dont recall you ever referring to all the innocent Palestinians who have been killed.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that's because you don't see any Israelis strapping explosives on and then climbing on a bus (or entering a deli or dance hall) and deliberately killing as many non-combatants as possible.
If they did, I'd refer to them as scumbags as well.
Quote:
Can you explain to me how Israel are supposed to remove the militant threat without creating new militants who are outraged at seeing members of their family killed?
Easy, kill the families as well.
Quote:
Whats been happening with the settlements?
There should have never been any settlements.
Quote:
The way I see it if one side were to lay down their arms and turn the other cheek, even in the face of continued attacks, eventually peace would be found.
    
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854254 - 08/27/03 09:16 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I couldnt agree more Rhizoid but how do you propose we stop the Israelis?
Ah, an attempt at humor. You must have missed the word "target". Would you like me to fetch the definition for you?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: ]
#1854265 - 08/27/03 09:19 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Their are extremists on both sides, you are aware of that I take it?
Do you also think the Israelis can find peace by killing more Palestinians?
IN FACT IF ANY OF YOU MENTAL DWARFS OUT THERE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVE PEACE CAN BE ACHIEVED BY KILLING PEOPLE WOULD CARE TO EXPLAIN HOW EXACTLY THIS WORKS I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL. I MEAN ACTUAL NUTS AND BOLTS OF HOW EXACTLY IT WORKS NOT MORE WHINING ALONG THE LINES OF THEY STARTED IT BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Quote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that's because you don't see any Israelis strapping explosives on and then climbing on a bus (or entering a deli or dance hall) and deliberately killing as many non-combatants as possible.
If they did, I'd refer to them as scumbags as well.
Oh now I get it! Your reality tunnel is so weird it took me a while but now I see it!! Its not the end result that bothers you i.e Innocents dead(remember the Israelis have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians) Its the modus operandi that bothers you. So if the Palestinians could afford to buy some tanks and some natty guns and uniforms and then claim they were after known Israelis terrorists it would be ok!
Try and remember this is a circle of violence.
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Easy, kill the families as well.
I hope this is another one of your really shit jokes. If not you are advocating killing the entire Palestinian population as you will eventually turn at least one member of every family into a militant.
Quote:
There should have never been any settlements.
Wow! We agree.
As for all your smiley faces...
My solution stands up logically. The idea that you can end the violence by killing Palestinians does not stand up logically. Americans love to see people getting killed though.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854290 - 08/27/03 09:28 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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You are ignoring what everyone is telling you. BTW, flaming is not allowed in here any more, so you might want to quit the name calling. You want to know how peace comes from war, huh? You kill all the agressors. Eventually those that remain will give it up or die. It worked with Germany, and Japan quite well. Your opinion that if the Israelis lay down their weapons there will be peace is ridiculous. The people they are fighting want them all dead. You just refuse to see this.
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wingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
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I can recall 2 instances where an Israeli deliberately butchered Muslim civilians.
Both perps are doing life in an Israeli prison, I think. They certainly do not have streets or grade schools named after them.
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shakta
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
#1854306 - 08/27/03 09:37 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Its not the end result that bothers you i.e Innocents dead(remember the Israelis have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians) Its the modus operandi that bothers you. So if the Palestinians could afford to buy some tanks and some natty guns and uniforms and then claim they were after known Israelis terrorists it would be ok!
This is pretty simple. How about the Palestinians go after the Israeli military. Snipe a soldier at a check point. Blow up a tank with a homemade bomb. If you have to fight against those that are fighting you, do it. PURPOSEFULLY targeting civillians is wrong. The civilians killed by the Israelis usually happen because they are around a legitimate target. If I am a Palestinian, and know someone is a member of Hamas, I stay the hell away from them. I am not going to say that Israel has always been justified in their attacks. Some of the stuff they have done is wrong.
The problem is all of the world tries to paint them as this evil country who are the worst human rights violators in the world. This is far from true. It is bullshit. They have a right to defend themselves and their borders as a sovereign nation. The other side of the coin, is the fact that you seem to think the militants are some kind of noble downtrodden army or something. This is not true either. They are terrorists. They repeatedly target civillians in the worst possible way. They want all the Jews dead, and most of them want Syria or another country to take all the land.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854310 - 08/27/03 09:38 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey at least I have a reality tunnel. You should try one. Quote:
Its the modus operandi that bothers you
No, as I've said before it's the deliberate targeting of civilians that bothers me. While I don't much care for collateral damage either, I don't find it even remotely as reprehensible as deliberately killing women and children. Quote:
My solution stands up logically.
No it doesn't. Turning the other cheeks just ensures bruises on both sides of your face. Quote:
Americans love to see people getting killed though.
Oh my! A generalization. And not even a good one. Sorry but to the best of my knowledge most of us don't cream our pants at the thought of women and children being blown to bits. We do however enjoy seeing the bad guys get their asses blown to bits.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
#1854317 - 08/27/03 09:39 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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You kill all the agressors. Eventually those that remain will give it up or die.
What do you mean give up or die? How will they die?
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It worked with Germany, and Japan quite well.
How the hell can you compare the Palestinians with the Germans or the Japanese?? That is beyond stupid.
Quote:
The people they are fighting want them all dead. You just refuse to see this.
Well prove it to me then. I want facts.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Quote:
Om my! A generalization. Sorry but to the best of my knowledge most of us don't cream our pants at the thought of women and children being blown to bits.
We do however enjoy seeing the bad guys get their asses blown to bits.
Cheers Luvvie you fell right into my trap! Muwaahhhhhaahhahaha! 
You took that to mean I was referring to all Americans yet when you said "The French are assholes" Alex123 was supposed to know automatically that you in fact werent generalising and were in fact referring only to those you had met.
How exactly does that work??
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 25 days, 14 hours
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Quote:
Ah, an attempt at humor. You must have missed the word "target". Would you like me to fetch the definition for you?
Ah, an attempt at sarcasm. I wont be needing the dictionary I read it fine the first time around. The Israelis say they are targetting terrorists and then kill innocents or bulldoze down their houses.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854331 - 08/27/03 09:47 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually I knew what you meant.... hence the "Oh my".
It's not a phrase I use often.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: GazzBut]
#1854333 - 08/27/03 09:48 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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The comparison is valid. I am not saying the Palestinian people are bad like the Nazis. I am saying that they will give up if enough of them are killed like in any war. Killing your enemy until they concede is how wars are won.
You ask for proof about Hamas' intentions. Here is a snippet from an article that illustrates it pretty well.
Quote:
Hamas is one of the largest terror organizations in Israel. An extensive network of clinics, schools, and other social work?amounting to more than $70 million annually?does not obscure its mission statement: to raise "the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." A week before the attacks Hamas leaders ended talks with Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas aimed at convincing them to lay down their weapons and give peace a chance. Instead, Hamas and other militant groups declared their opposition to the U.S.-authored two-state solution, despite Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's acquiescence to the creation of a Palestinian state. Hamas may be targeting Israelis, but resurgent attacks since Mr. Abbas met with President Bush and Mr. Sharon suggest the militants also want to make casualties of fellow Palestinians, if they happen to call for peace.
http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/06-21-03/opening_3.asp
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
#1854348 - 08/27/03 09:53 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
You are ignoring what everyone is telling you.
What exactly am I ignoring?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Israel to liquidate Hamas. [Re: shakta]
#1854350 - 08/27/03 09:53 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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You want to know how peace comes from war, huh? You kill all the agressors.
Read up on a man called Gandhi. You'll be amazed.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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