ElectricJW said:

Diploid you are so ignorant on the subject, your making it hard for me to take you seriously and reply to you.

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ElectricJW said:

Diploid you are so ignorant on the subject, your making it hard for me to take you seriously and reply to you.

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ElectricJW said:

This right here is why it wouldn't work. And quit saying this is bullshit when you have never done it, so you don't even know if its true or not.

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SurCal said:

Is it Bull shit or what? So have any of you had them? Your thoughts on it? If it is true were are we when we astral project is it our souls in the physical world ?

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Quote:

The Indian prince, who refused to believe the first relations concerning the effects of frost, reasoned justly; and it naturally required very strong testimony to engage his assent to facts, that arose from a state of nature, with which he was unacquainted, and which bore so little analogy to those events, of which he had had constant and uniform experience.

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Quote:

I pronounce my decision, and always reject the greater miracle. If the falsehood of his testimony would be more miraculous, than the event which he relates; then, and not till then, can he pretend to command my belief or opinion.

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Meanwhile, if the two are equally miraculous, or nearly so, we must diminish to some degree both arguments, and make no decision. If we find proof of one or the other, the reliability of John Doe is either restored to its previous stature or destroyed completely.

(Note: From here on, "you" means everyone in this thread who has claimed to undergo astral projection or who otherwise claims a reasonable basis for its reality based on their experiences.)

Fortunately, you should not be worried that this might happen to you. You command almost no respect or reliability from me. This is not meant to be taken as an insult, nor should it hurt your ego. It is a simple statement of fact, the result of at least three factors:

One: You are a stranger on the Internet. In other words, you start out in the hole, needing to prove your reliability as a witness.

Two: You have so far shown me no special capacity for reason in this thread. For some of you, there are other threads that have reinforced this trend.

Three: You do not even recognize the extremity of your claim. You think it should be accepted on faith.

Thus, your word is not reliable. Your claim must be rejected. This leaves me with a few things I may believe to be your motive, all of them leading up to the same.

You are being deceptive, for whatever reason. There are few reasons that I can imagine you might choose to deceive me on this subject, but one would be the sense of personal importance you might imagine you could attain from being able to perform some special feat such as this one. I do not feel that this is likely because your claims have clearly have received a mixed welcome, though this forum still seems to be a haven for a few dedicated obsessives of the paranormal, anti-skeptics, so to speak.

You are simply wrong. You have interpreted normal (or abnormal, but explicable) psychological occurrences whereby one imagines himself to be in another place to mean that one actually has traveled to that other place in some (apparently vague) way or another. I believe this is more likely. What seems so far to be a lack of rational skepticism on your part leads me to believe you would assume this result with only the slightest provocation, especially as, if true, it would mean you have special psychic abilities uncommon to most humans, whether natural or attained. There are many people in the world who seem vulnerable to this kind of vanity, most of them apparently having access to the Internet.

I hope you have enjoyed a very thorough explanation of a very simple process, by which I have declared most of what you say to be complete and utter bullshit (see Figure 1A). I am confident in this assessment until I experience new, well-examined evidence to the contrary.


(Figure 1A)

Meanwhile, please consider the alternative. What if people did not subconsciously use this device to some degree or another in their daily lives? People would be prepared to believe nearly anything. I think most people do this automatically, but I think they short-circuit their reason when they are unreasonably attracted to one outcome or another. If it is very pleasing to imagine that you are capable of a special skill, it is common that one will evade all evidence to the contrary in order to believe so. The alternative is mundane, or even frightening, in the case of mental illness. I do not suspect the latter in most of these cases, but I am not your psychiatrist and am not here to play guessing games about whether you are simple, naive, or mentally unsound. I am here to tell you why I, and everyone else in the world, barring other evidence, have no reason to believe you are right.

Quote:

There were also thousands of witnesses, there too.

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mkc said:

I hope many of you didn't misunderstand. Astral projection is possible, even for anyone, but it comes with great practice. It's not like growing mushrooms. It takes a long while of practice and understanding to succesfully attain an OBE.

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mkc said:

I hope many of you didn't misunderstand. Astral projection is possible, even for anyone, but it comes with great practice. It's not like growing mushrooms. It takes a long while of practice and understanding to succesfully attain an OBE.

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figgusfiddus said:

The term "astral projection" is independent from the term "out of body experience". Even if people claim the two are one and the same, the implication of the former is that it is a real, objective event that involves the viewing of real things not in one's immediate surroundings through one's mind. The latter is sometimes taken to mean the same, but has also been analyzed as a subjective, internal, purely psychological event.

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