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YellowSubmarine
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Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project?
#1791916 - 08/08/03 11:28 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been on this Astral binge topic lately.
Few basic questions;
Does the intake of mushrooms and marijuana affect the effects of ones ability to astrally project themselves out of body? I'm not talking about taking an eighth of shrooms and trying to project, I'm talking about the very idea, the very introduction of such a powerful substance such as mushrooms affecting ones overall ability to achieve these 'natural' states of altered conciousness. Do regular shroomers/ tokers find it more difficult to AP? I've heard from various sources that drugs fall into the 'negative' category when it comes to subtle energy bodies and should be avoided at all costs. Others have not mentioned this.
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psylicon
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: YellowSubmarine]
#1792145 - 08/08/03 12:48 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Definitely having these substances in your body facilitates projection. I know this from quite a bit of experience; my best projectionions have occured on a fairly hard hit of salvia; another time while meditating on 12 wet grams of koh samui I entered into an enthralling experience with giant mushroom creatures. On the long term too, I have found that having consumed such psychadelics in the past sort of 'opens the door' and makes future, sober meditations much more powerful. As far as marijuana is concerned, I'm not an avid user, but back in the day I tried it occasionally for such purposes with minimal success. I have read similar testimonials condemning the use of psychadelics to aid in projection; all of these I've seen in mainstream books on Wicca, and it's my opinion that these authors are extremely ignorant and have never tried such substances, afraid to condone anything illegal. Certainly the peyote, ayahuasca, and mushroom using shamans of the past achieved far more powerful visionary states than do contemporary wicca practitioners; I've heard reports that medieval witches even facilitated projection by boiling jimson weed and spreading it on their broomsticks, then masterbating with it in ritual.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: YellowSubmarine]
#1792239 - 08/08/03 01:25 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Non-shroomers ability to AP: zero.
Shroomers ability to AP: zero.
Summation: no discernable difference.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792343 - 08/08/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Non-shroomers ability to AP: zero.
Shroomers ability to AP: zero.
Summation: no discernable difference.
Oh, i see....and that is based on what exactly? The only posts i see from you swami are cries of a caged mind trying to cling to a 'known' reality. There are some things that are unexplainable to us,.....forgive me if i misjudged you......, what is your spirituality btw?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1792379 - 08/08/03 02:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh, i see....and that is based on what exactly? How about all of the "advanced" astral travellers and remote viewers that failed the Swami Challenge in identifying a specific object in my house in a specific location?
The only posts i see from you swami are cries of a caged mind trying to cling to a 'known' reality. Huh? You know nothing about me bro, yet you can do a complete analysis. This is the infamous conclusion-jumping so famous with the fantasy-minded on this board.
There are some things that are unexplainable to us,.....forgive me if i misjudged you......, Unexplainable or explainable has nothing to do with the fact that AP is purely in the mind. Nothing actually leaves the body.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: YellowSubmarine]
#1792400 - 08/08/03 02:15 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another gross generalization by Swami based on no experience at all
Drugs can, and do hinder one's ability to project. This is not absolute however. As usual, anything in moderation is the key. The daily smoking of marijuana, from my experience, does in fact hinder remembering dreams, and achieving the vibrations neccessary for astral projection. Again, this is not the rule. I have had extreme spontaneous vibrations whilst stoned on the cannabis..and achieved projection shortly after.
I use mushrooms very rarely, perhaps once or twice a year. So I cannot give any conclusive experience to it, but I have had one astral projection while shrooming, and it came quite naturally.
But the short answer to your question is yes.. pot/shrooms/etc CAN hinder your ability to project. If you are using those drugs just to project, don't bother. Practice it sober, get comfortable with it sober. This isn't to say these things stop your ability to project, just that they can hinder it if used for the wrong reasons. It is a natural state..astral projection.. and you don't need help from any other substances. Though if these elements have been introduced into your body, do not worry.. just focus on the task.
I have projected both on mushrooms, and pot. But the vast majority of my astral projections have been while sober.
--------------------
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792403 - 08/08/03 02:16 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Oh, i see....and that is based on what exactly? How about all of the "advanced" astral travellers and remote viewers that failed the Swami Challenge in identifying a specific object in my house in a specific location?
Actually i never saw the swami astral projection challenge....or even knew about it. I wouldn't mind reading it, what was the thread title?
Quote:
Swami said:The only posts i see from you swami are cries of a caged mind trying to cling to a 'known' reality. Huh? You know nothing about me bro, yet you can do a complete analysis. This is the infamous conclusion-jumping so famous with the fantasy-minded on this board.
Forgive the colourful metaphor, what i mean is your posts seem to mainly consist of saying how spiritual topics can't exist...or trying to discredit them, or deny them....that was all....
Quote:
Swami said:There are some things that are unexplainable to us,.....forgive me if i misjudged you......, Unexplainable or explainable has nothing to do with the fact that AP is purely in the mind. Nothing actually leaves the body.
I agree with you that nothing leaves the body. I admit i don't know much on the topic, but how does the experience being in the mind lessen its value or importance?!
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792422 - 08/08/03 02:20 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami, if you have been paying attention to these threads for the past 4 years, you should know by now that the astral realm is not the physical, and even experienced astral travellers cannot at will, try and see into the physical realm just to prove a skeptic wrong. That is the area of clairvoyance. The astral plane exists parallel to the physical, in pure energy form. I would ask that if you have no experience with astral projection whatsoever, that you do not claim non-existence. I have been there.
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Shroomism
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1792490 - 08/08/03 02:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Actually it was the Swami Remote Viewing Challenge. He should know by now that Remote Viewing and Astral Projection are two *completely* different things, but I guess his brain still does not make that distinction.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1792503 - 08/08/03 02:39 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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but how does the experience being in the mind lessen its value or importance?!
Huh? Where did I say that? The general claim is that the astral body leaves the physical body, not that it is merely a mind-state; that is what I question.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1792525 - 08/08/03 02:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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and even experienced astral travellers cannot at will, try and see into the physical realm just to prove a skeptic wrong
But they can see into the physical realm as long as it is NOT to prove a skeptic wrong. They have funny rules on the other side.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792536 - 08/08/03 02:46 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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No Swami, you are completely missing the point. The Astral realm is NOT the physical realm, it only slightly reflects it. They CANNOT see into the physical realm, nor would anyone want to, or even think about whilst exploring the astral plane.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792554 - 08/08/03 02:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: but how does the experience being in the mind lessen its value or importance?!
Huh? Where did I say that? The general claim is that the astral body leaves the physical body, not that it is merely a mind-state; that is what I question.
Well obviously the 'astral body' doesn't walk away from the material one....but if the astral body is part of a particular mindstate is not the whole concept of astral projection then a mind-state? Whats there to question? Can you not visualise walking through a medow on a sunny day? Its not the same as actually doing it, but it pretty close....at least in my perspective.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1792716 - 08/08/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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from a popular MysticWeb website: Within the Astral Plane there exists all that exists in the Physical Plane.
That means my object d'art that was the prize of the Swam Challenge should have been readily visible to ANY EXPERIENCED traveller.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792730 - 08/08/03 03:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mystic web knows it all.
...swami your graspin...
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1792776 - 08/08/03 03:54 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I see how it all works now. It is OK to be skeptical of Mystic Web, but NOT fellow shroomerites?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1792798 - 08/08/03 03:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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You should be skeptical of everything. As of now i do not believe in astral projection. Yet i am learning about it as i respond here.... Why would i learn about it....and even devote hours of practice to it, if i don't believe it?...because i haven't tried....can you say the same?
Why do you feel the need to discredit spirituality? I know as well as you all the sick bullshit people try to sell as religion, but i have also experienced a strong, personal, experience that transends any concept of religion. This is what drives me to read everything, believe nothing, and experience as much as i can, because only by having such revelations yourself, can you accept others.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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YellowSubmarine
Soviet Pig
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1793161 - 08/08/03 05:34 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love the book by Robert Bruce entitled Astral Dynamics. I have read a few other books and website info but all seemed like a load of b.s. as I was still skeptical. I am still just as skeptical of the process however I greatly understand after i took to this book. Bruce seems to believe that the physical mind has 7 mindly states of projection. By keeping your conciousness 'awake' during this process of trance sleep mode you are able to transfer your conciousness to the higher levels of awareness. I thought the same thing that astral projection was possibly just a vivid imagination in your minds eye. Apparantley all projectors do feel a definite click and senses are opened even though there are no organs. I like to think of the whole process as a complex linear spaceship computer in your head. It's so fascinating and exciting! I just can't wait for it to happen just so I can 'see' the damn thing for myself.
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MindTrap
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: YellowSubmarine]
#1793209 - 08/08/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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"i have also experienced a strong, personal, experience that transends any concept of religion."
What experience was that?
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Vulture
Pursuer ofWisdom
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: MindTrap]
#1793531 - 08/08/03 07:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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....dont worry about swami...hes merely fooled by the Illusion of the Gross plane (physical) You have to be open minded swami.....just let ideas flow in and observe and the truth will come out. Once your open minded enough i suggest you read some books and practice and see for yourself. Thats what makes the metaphysical so great because its not imposing ideas and stating that this is right because i say so. Its giving you information based on the expereinces of others and tells you if you want to see then try it for yourself, and you will....eventually. Why would thousands of people throughout history lie about something like this and if so why would all of the seemingly unrealated experiences be so similer? coincedence? i doubt it. Nothing is a coincedence....plus there are just too many of them to just brush it off as that. Only a close minded fool would do such a thing.
I dont mean to preach at you swami....and i cannot enable you to be "ready" myself. That is entirely up to you and your karma. All i can do is be who i am and offer my knowledge in hopes that one day it will help someone to realize the truth...the truth is everywhere, just dont be blind to it and fooled by the illusion in which we are all living in.
-------------------- Work like you dont need the money. Love like you never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1793694 - 08/08/03 08:00 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Actually it was the Swami Remote Viewing Challenge. He should know by now that Remote Viewing and Astral Projection are two *completely* different things, but I guess his brain still does not make that distinction.
The open-minded Challenge allowed for remote-viewing, clairvoyance, ESP, astral travel and any other non-physical means of viewing the object. Naturally, all methods failed miserably.
Sorry shroomism that I cannot determine the difference between one method that doesn't work from another method that doesn't work.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1793946 - 08/08/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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In science, when trying to determine whether something exists or not, do you conduct ONE test, with limited variables, and a sketchy hypothesis to begin with.. and then when you fail to achieve your desired results, conclude that it was all a waste, and from that point on base your whole opinion on that subject from that single, limited test? Because that's what it seems like to me.
No, you make more tests, with different variables, a different hypothesis, and a few constants. That one test, which you mention a lot, was not the test to end all tests. Besides, no one even claimed to have mastered clairvoyant sight, the test relied heavily on our trust with you, as you could have easily switched objects. It was not a very scientific test.
I'm up for any future challenge you may have, as I am eager to prove the existance of altered state of consciousness/perception and beyond.
--------------------
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1794147 - 08/08/03 10:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm up for any future challenge you may have, as I am eager to prove the existance of altered state of consciousness/perception and beyond.
YOU DESIGN the test and I will just put in some basic constraints to rule out fraud, collusion or misinterpretation. Now how fair is that?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1794159 - 08/08/03 10:57 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alright, you meet me, on the astral plane, and I'll tell you something.
--------------------
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1794160 - 08/08/03 10:58 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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How about this:
I'll design a test to test which on of your guy's tests is more accurate. Then Ill take the findings, sub-mulitply them by the root-factor of the square pentametre of the base-sub-con of the original data-plex, and then multiply that by the ratio sub-portion between the electronic/chemical boundry layer between my skin and my keyboard and the end product will eventually result in a by-product of my original, INTENDED predictionisisms.
-------------------- enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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DoctorJ
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1794181 - 08/08/03 11:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Oh, i see....and that is based on what exactly? How about all of the "advanced" astral travellers and remote viewers that failed the Swami Challenge in identifying a specific object in my house in a specific location?"
The CIA had a well-documented remote viewing program that was actually quite successful. I believe there is documented evidence of a team of remote viewers succesfully locating a downed russian spy jet in the middle of the wilderness.
I also recall one documented case of a CIA remote veiwer repeatedly getting the same image... a triangular shape with wings... whenever he drew it, the air force would confiscate the drawing. He found out why when the air force declassified the stealth fighter. it was that exact shape. He was trying to spy on russian planes but ended up getting classified american ones.
remote viewing works but isnt always accurate or easy to control...
the program eventually lost funding because the congressmen thought it was a frivolous expense and didn't want the taxpayers to think the government was wasting their money.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: DoctorJ]
#1794248 - 08/08/03 11:38 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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the program eventually lost funding because:
*drum roll please*
It didn't work.
The amount of money spent was quite small and Congress has little fear of the public when it comes to defense spending. Last year alone, the GAO failed to account for over a TRILLION dollars!
How much does it cost to put a few guys in an empty room with pencil and paper?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1794254 - 08/08/03 11:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:How much does it cost to put a few guys in an empty room with pencil and paper?
If the government pays for it? Millions!!!
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1794260 - 08/08/03 11:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Too much, that money can be better spent, keeping drugs illegal and making lots of money, and building bigger weapons to kill people with. And buy more mansions. Oh, and making sure everyone keeps occupied watching TV and buying things and not questioning their authority.
--------------------
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DoctorJ
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Shroomism]
#1794285 - 08/08/03 11:54 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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"It didn't work."
No, actually it worked quite well. The funding was cut because congess couldn't justify the expense (keeping uniquely gifted people on salary can be quite expensive) to the unenlightened public (ie- you and your ilk)
here is a link to CIA remote viewing info netted by FOIA: http://www.bvalphaserver.com/secartprint72.html
read it and make your own decision, although I'll say the stuff they release to the public is pretty watered down compared to the REAL dirt...
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: DoctorJ]
#1794385 - 08/09/03 12:54 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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im the invisible man, im your shadow, im the true reflection that you can never see because your eyes dont work properly.
-------------------- enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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merlink
IntergalacticTraveler
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1794456 - 08/09/03 01:32 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami,
Do you not believe that we are composed of particles which are vibrating at different rates/frequencies?
-Merlin
-------------------- "Once you have an experience, you experience it for the rest of your life ? as time is a man-made relativity, expiration of experience is a thought." - Merlin
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Jellric
altered statesman
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: YellowSubmarine]
#1794606 - 08/09/03 03:02 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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As I understand your question, you mean do shrooms or pot have an effect of AP/OBEs in general, not necessarily while you are actually on them? I can' t speak from personal experience, but I've read quite a bit on the subject and the concensus seems to be yes, and a positive one. And there are some qualifiers there, such as are you using those substances to expand your mind or merely as recreation? If you are using them to expand your mind it could be helpful, because in order to have a self-willed OBE you need a belief system that allows for the possibility of AP/OBE's. Using them may allow you to mentally "clear the brush* so to speak to make way for a path of travel. I wouldn't start using just to achieve this state however- you can probably do it on your own almost as easily. As for the argument about whether some part of oneself actually leaves the body during an OBE, I view it as a distinction without a difference. To me, all things exist in the mind of God, and to OBE is to "borrow his eyes" and remotely see something that exists in his mind which ultimately is your mind. You didn't travel there, you just brought it to mind. Remote-viewing is a detached experience, OBEs are interactive.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1795454 - 08/09/03 01:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I view it as a distinction without a difference.
Sorry Jello, but it makes a HUGE difference when someone claims to have ACTUALLY travelled to a friend's house. If there is no travel to real locales, then it is pure imagination and nothing out of the ordinary.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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YellowSubmarine
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1795496 - 08/09/03 02:07 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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To asnwer your question. I began using this substances out of curiosity. It is now to a point where I strictly use them for spiritual purposes and investigation. Marijuana is used more recreationally, lately however I have strictly used the high to make induction of OBEs a little easier on my mind and body. I will bounce back and forth from meditative work stoned and sober and so far have felt no negative side effects. If anything I feel more energetic.
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Jellric
altered statesman
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1796108 - 08/09/03 05:40 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorry Jello, but it makes a HUGE difference when someone claims to have ACTUALLY travelled to a friend's house. If there is no travel to real locales, then it is pure imagination and nothing out of the ordinary.
It makes a difference when ppl use it to argue about, but no real difference.
If there is no actual travel, it doesn't automatically follow that it's imaginary! Just as I see distant places through my tv set and what I am seeing is real, ppl can view these very real places without actually being there. Go back and re-read the ideas I presented in my earlier post about there being little practical difference and why.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1797036 - 08/10/03 12:04 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
If there is no actual travel, it doesn't automatically follow that it's imaginary!
Whether or not something is actually travelling is not important. The point is that if you can access previously unknown information located at a distant place, then something is going on that is different from pure imagination.
If no information is transferred to you from outside your head, then the entire experience must be constructed from information already present inside your head.
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Shroomism
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1797855 - 08/10/03 10:37 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami, ever heard of "consciousness"?
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1801823 - 08/11/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Actually it was the Swami Remote Viewing Challenge. He should know by now that Remote Viewing and Astral Projection are two *completely* different things, but I guess his brain still does not make that distinction.
The open-minded Challenge allowed for remote-viewing, clairvoyance, ESP, astral travel and any other non-physical means of viewing the object. Naturally, all methods failed miserably.
Sorry shroomism that I cannot determine the difference between one method that doesn't work from another method that doesn't work. ----------------------------------------------- from a popular MysticWeb website: Within the Astral Plane there exists all that exists in the Physical Plane.
That means my object d'art that was the prize of the Swam Challenge should have been readily visible to ANY EXPERIENCED traveller.
Well mystic web says "within the astral plane there exists all that exists in the physical plane". And no-one identified your object. So the logical swami conclusion is that such a feat is impossible, and methods used to achieve such a result are discredited or "don't work".
Could not all that exists in the material plane existing in the astral mean it all exists, but in a different form? Mabye its unrecognizable? I find it interesting how you would not even practice such a technique, but having such a ridiculous contest is proof enough for you. I'd be surprised if anyone even did your challenge.
To me your arguments do not represent logic, or rationality. In fact they seem to epidomise the linear thinking, and closemindedness so common to our society today. I know your older than most, but it is never to late to gain a new perspective....
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1801834 - 08/11/03 01:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: the program eventually lost funding because:
*drum roll please*
It didn't work.
The amount of money spent was quite small and Congress has little fear of the public when it comes to defense spending. Last year alone, the GAO failed to account for over a TRILLION dollars!
How much does it cost to put a few guys in an empty room with pencil and paper?
Yeah, they probably did a test for it similar to a swami challenge.....WELL THAT SETTLES THAT!!!....no remote viewing exists.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1801846 - 08/11/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: I view it as a distinction without a difference.
If there is no travel to real locales, then it is pure imagination and nothing out of the ordinary.
How do you figure?!..
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1801853 - 08/11/03 01:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mabye its unrecognizable?
Then why bother putting it in your metaphysics at all?
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1801894 - 08/11/03 01:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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but having such a ridiculous contest is proof enough for you.
Dear Az,
Swami Challenges are NOT created in a void, but IN RESPONSE TO SPECIFIC claims that members made. Thus far, every single claimant has been unable to validate their metaphysicals skills.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1801906 - 08/11/03 01:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, they probably did a test for it similar to a swami challenge.....WELL THAT SETTLES THAT!!!....no remote viewing exists.
Failure on a test or series of tests is hardly indicative of success, now is it? 3000+ members had 30 days to identify the object. At one try per day that is a possible 90,000 experiments; yet you roll it all up as one try. *AHEM*
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1801924 - 08/11/03 01:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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What are the point to your challenges then? to convince you that such a thing is impossible, or to convince them?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1801945 - 08/11/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Separating truth from falsehood is a good point, isn't it?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1802190 - 08/11/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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When truth and falsehood don't exist, there is no point. Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
#1802245 - 08/11/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
When truth and falsehood don't exist, there is no point.
All right. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection either, obviously. When truth exists, there may or may not be some truth in astral projection. That's what is being disputed here, with the challenges and everything. No one has so far demonstrated information transfer from beyond their own head when doing astral projection, so the theory that it's all just imagination still holds.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1802289 - 08/11/03 03:23 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizoid said: All right. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection either, obviously. When truth exists, there may or may not be some truth in astral projection. That's what is being disputed here, with the challenges and everything. No one has so far demonstrated information transfer from beyond their own head when doing astral projection, so the theory that it's all just imagination still holds.
Correct. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection, either. That is sort of my point. You can either think on one side or the other of the paradox to think rationally, right? hahaha! .
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? IF no one has demonstrated information transfer by astral projection, THEN the theory that it is all in one's imaginatinon still holds? Is this a good IF/THEN statement, everyone? Those assumptions will kill you, my boy.
By the way, science only can prove that something does not exist, not that it DOES exist. I might be wrong on that, though, so please tell me. Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
#1802476 - 08/11/03 04:14 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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How could you prove something doesnt exist?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1802581 - 08/11/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was talking in relation to science... nice try, though. hehe
Science is great and all, but it is just too damn analytical and cold! Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
#1804802 - 08/12/03 06:27 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? IF no one has demonstrated information transfer by astral projection, THEN the theory that it is all in one's imaginatinon still holds? Is this a good IF/THEN statement, everyone? Those assumptions will kill you, my boy.
Innocent until proven guilty is also an assumption. In scientific theories, "proven guilty" is replaced by "falsified" (a la Karl Popper). The theory that astral projection is all in your head would be falsified by a single case of verifiable information transfer from outside the head during an astral journey.
The other theory seems to say that astral projection is an invisible, undetectable part of you that leaves your body (while still being attached to it by an undetectable cord) and travels around freely in space, or at least to the edge of the galaxy, at speeds much faster than light. Did I get this right?
I don't know if this theory is falsifiable even in principle, except by demonstrating astral travel outside the galaxy. But it does make claims about reality, and such claims must either be deduced from other claims, or be confirmed by direct observation. All other claims can be cut away by Occam's Razor without changing any essential aspect of the theory. The problem is that if we cut away all the unconfirmed claims of the travelling-outside-your-head theory, nothing is left. Without support, the theory collapses.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1805666 - 08/12/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you ever tried it? Your argument seems based on the fact that astral projection is something proveable. I agree with you there is little tangible support for the theory of astral projection, but lets say we both knew how to astrally project. How could you prove to people you did it? It doesn't really relate to science because it is such an inexplicable concept we wouldn't even know where to begin. It may be explainable, but we probably don't have the knowledge to do so yet...
just some thoughts...
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1805848 - 08/12/03 01:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought we already covered that part. I would prove it by flying my astral body over to Swami's place and take a good look at the piece of paper with a message on it that he has (hopefully) prepared in advance and placed on his kitchen table. Then I would report back here with the exact wording of that message.
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Jellric
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1806209 - 08/12/03 03:04 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you ever personally met Swami? I'm not speaking from personal experience here, but I've read a lot on the subject from ppl that do it a lot. Many of them say it is virtually impossible to visit someone you don't know- you might see Swami, but it'd be your idea of Swami you're interacting with, not the real person. Another thing to keep in mind is your astral self is not your everyday self. That self may ignore your conscious plans and take you to a grassy meadow instead. Or someplace else.
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1806225 - 08/12/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizoid said: I thought we already covered that part. I would prove it by flying my astral body over to Swami's place and take a good look at the piece of paper with a message on it that he has (hopefully) prepared in advance and placed on his kitchen table. Then I would report back here with the exact wording of that message.
And if you didn't report the wording then it is impossible to astral project. Can you not see how faulty such a 'test' would be? Inconclusive?! all the variables?!...limitations??? If i could astrally project i'd go off an explore the unknown. I would feel no need to prove shit to anyone who didn't want to learn. Hell i'd even stop by swamis on the way back to see there is no paper out, and he never really wanted to be convinced in the first place....just discredit. edit: btw...your loosing the staring contest! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...o=1&fpart=1
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
Edited by Azmodeus (08/12/03 03:10 PM)
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1806229 - 08/12/03 03:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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So you are in effect saying that you cannot bring back real information using AT (which is counter to some claims). If you cannot, then there is no way to positively state that some part of you ACTUALLY leaves the room and travels to distant locales.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1806239 - 08/12/03 03:12 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mabye its like watching tv. You don't go anywhere but you can see things you've never seen before....although i doubt it. But i haven't even tried it yet, so i can't say one way or the other.... What happened in your experiece swami?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1806263 - 08/12/03 03:20 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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the only reason I see astral projection as "traveling" is because it takes me places I've never been and shows me things I've never seen. So, either I'm seeing a foriegn place or I have greatly underestimated the creative power of my subconscious.
Nothing I have seen while projecting has led me to believe that the sensorium comes from *my* mind, as I am pretty familiar with my mind and whats in there.
As for verifying the claim that one can visit specific physical locations... well I've never tried, so I would never make that claim.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1806303 - 08/12/03 03:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here is Swami's Astral Travel exercise (no sham!): Lie down in a darkened room when you are NOT tired and make sure that you are to have no distractions for about an hour. Concentrate all of your awareness into your little toe on your left foot. You will be able to tell if you are doing it right as you will feel it vibrating and maybe twitching. DO NOT RUSH any part of this exercise. Procede SLOWLY with each toe. Stay with each part until you feel the sensation. Then switch feet. Repeat with ALL body parts moving slowly up your legs. You may skip over your genital area as you already have too much experience focusing awareness there and the sensations will be a distraction. Then do abs, chest neck, face, ears and scalp. Save your off-hand arm for last. (I am right-handed so I save my left arm until the end.) Focus into each finger until it tingles as you move up your arm, feel it getting lighter. Try not to consciously raise your arm, but if you do it right it will float up; if you are using a "standard" muscle contraction it will get tired and convulse. Feel your hand moving of it's own volition towards your face. KNOW that when your index finger touches your nose you WILL immediately leave your body. Keep your breathing realxed and deep; try not to get excited. If done correctly and s-l-o-w-l-y will full awareness, you will defintiely experience SOMETHING when your hand touches your face. This is not something that you need to practice. DO IT RIGHT the first time. It should take about an hour. Now tell the Swam again how he is clueless and ignorant and has not explored...
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: DoctorJ]
#1806306 - 08/12/03 03:28 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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But you can see the logic that if one person makes such a claim, and a test is designed and that person cant read the text, how the whole idea of astral travel is invalidated right?
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1806321 - 08/12/03 03:31 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swam....you know you don't need to leave out the part about the genitals, we're all adults here....you got distracted and never completed the exersize! I watched you from my astral projection....then cut the cord abruptly!
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Jellric
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1806998 - 08/12/03 06:48 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hmmm..I still can no longer copy and paste..the quote feature no longer works either..anyway reread my post, Swami. It related to someone who never met you visiting you or anyone else they'd never met. I mean if AT does work, how exactly would someone find someone they didn't know? Fly all over the state of California diving through roofs one at a time looking for what you imagine Swami to look like??
-------------------- I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1808137 - 08/13/03 01:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I mean if AT does work, how exactly would someone find someone they didn't know? Fly all over the state of California diving through roofs one at a time looking for what you imagine Swami to look like??
I have no idea. It was a shroomery member who said he could visit me. I don't just make this stuff up.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
#1808375 - 08/13/03 04:05 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Many of them say it is virtually impossible to visit someone you don't know- you might see Swami, but it'd be your idea of Swami you're interacting with, not the real person.
This is exactly my view of what happens in astral projection.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1808397 - 08/13/03 04:37 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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First of all, Swami, your Astral Projection technique doesn't sound very good, man. Just lie down on your back, when you are going to sleep, and get as comfortable as you can. I use a pillow underneath my head because it is too distracting not to. Myself, I hold my arms so that my hands are on each side of my head, like I just streched out while I was laying down or something.
I let all of my usual thoughts run their course, as I just get used to laying there and getting comfortable, after awhile, I'll start feeling funny feelings everywhere, and then I gradually reduce my thoughts, usually just saying flow.. That sort of floating feeling will set in, and I usually just stare into my eyelids, watch all of the dots float by. Feeling in your body, especially arms and legs, starts to diminsh, it will feel like you are sort of disconnected, not really too aware where your body is positioned.
What I've been doing now is starting to just concentrate on my breathing, after everything starts happening. What is going on in your head really effects what is happening. You said you do a lot of concentrating on all the parts of your body, and concentrating isn't really going to help. Just sort of watch what is happening, note the fact that you are feeling different feelings.. eventually too much of any kind of thought will create a roadblock, so that is why I eventually start watching my breathing. In, out, in, out.. and I sort of imagine that with each out, my awareness is starting to get pushed out of my body.. things become very intense, high vibrations everywhere, and the feeling of breathing becomes quite profound.. almost like it won't be possible to keep it up...
And that is as far as I have got. hehe. Sorry, but I'm still going for this, and last night is as far as I got, before some fears kicked back in and ruined the process. It takes a lot of time to work on this, but to not work on it is to not astral project. If you want to see results, just always let the possibility of astral projection be possible, otherwise it won't be. I actually get myself believing that I am very conducive to astral projection, that there are forces that want me to be able to get a hang of it... whether of not it is true, it certainly helps remove any doubts, right? Mental conditioning, mental conditioning...
Do we really leave our bodies? I don't know, but I do believe that astral projection is simply having an aware mind while being asleep.. the same process happens every night.. but with mental conditioning and practice, you can be aware when it happens and journey off on your own.. I guess what you experience is suspossed to be very clear, as if it is really happening (maybe it is, who knows? hehe), so it should be a lot of fun, at least. Peace, and keep trying.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Swami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
#1808845 - 08/13/03 10:04 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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First of all, Swami, your Astral Projection technique doesn't sound very good, man. ... And that is as far as I have got.
You can tell that my (borrowed) method is no good because yours doesn't work? There is logic for ya.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Azmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1809244 - 08/13/03 12:24 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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We all know you prolly wouldn't even try meditation let alone a serious attemp at AT.....say everynight for two weeks. You don't want to see,...yet you discourage others as if you "know" something, but really you just haven't tried and as long as you don't, everything is as it should be....settled, explained, black and white. btw, how old are you?!
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Rhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
#1809346 - 08/13/03 12:48 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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In what way did Swami discourage others?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
#1809350 - 08/13/03 12:50 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: You can tell that my (borrowed) method is no good because yours doesn't work? There is logic for ya.
Nah, mine does work splendly, I just haven't went too far into it yet, fears pop up and such. I always get a little farther every time..
I didn't actually say yours didn't work, I said it didn't sound good. I mean, relaxation is good and all, but the way I understand it, is that this happens every night, you just aren't conscious of it. I guess that the best way would be to go about it just as you are going to sleep, but keeping your mind focused on your breathing, so you are aware when you make the jump... I've been but a step away now, and you can feel it. Good luck, man, keep trying. Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Azmodeus
Seeker
Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1809397 - 08/13/03 12:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizoid said: In what way did Swami discourage others?
All his post discourage or ask for evidence to support whatever spiritual topic is being discussed. That is not necissarily a bad thing, i appreciat his posts, and its good to be slapped with reason once in awhile. But for example in the beginning of this thread he writes shroomer ability to astal project- zero shroomer ability to astal project on mushrooms- zero When really he has no idea, and then brings up the swami challenge as if someones claim to do something has a relevance to astral travell. You see it in ALL his posts, a kind of "this is a sham" or "that could be faked" attitude, which is only one side of the coin...does he even have any beliefs himself? who knows... but he sure questions others.
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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mushroomexplorer
Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 358
Loc: WA
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Vulture]
#12866856 - 07/08/10 11:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is an interesting question I do not know if using drugs effects ones ability to astral project.
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