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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Learning to go out of the body (without drugs)
    #684233 - 06/17/02 03:01 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I dont know if you believe it in or not but its quite possible to leave the body and travel around in this world or other wolds and dimensions and higher astral planes. The reason I know is because I did it myself, long before I started using ANY drugs at all, never even had tried a drug back then. So I know its not just drug hallucinations, because what you experience in out of body can be confirmed (like going seeing what your neighbours doing hehe)

Its not the hardest thing to learn neither, and there is tons of information about it. And you will learn much from the out of body experience, giving more meaning to the questions about life, death and existence.

And also, it is not dreams, you do it fully counsious/awake (mind awake, body sleep) and you can go back to your body when you want to and then you can remember what you experienced and write it down for logging I reccommand.

So how do you do it? Well, I will not write down the methods here because there are allready many good books about it (and sites). I highly reccommand the following books that really works if you follow the books instructions from beginning to end and dont just READ the book but DO the exercises. Then you should be able to have OBE's at will.

OBE = Out of Body Experience a.k.a. Astral Projection
(Very reccommanded, I had my first OBE 4 weeks after trying)

1. Astral Dynamics
by Robert Bruce ( http://www.astraldynamics.com )

2. Adventures Beyoud the Body
3. The Secret Of The Soul
both by William Buhlman ( http://www.out-of-body.com )

Other reccommanded sites:

Spirit Web:
http://www.spiritweb.org

Spirit Online:
http://www.spiritonline.com

Ballabene's Astral Page:
http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/Alfred.Ballabene/english/engindex.htm

I could tell you my own experiences but they are just too many, but here is one of my first ones anyway:

Somtime in 1999:
I went to my bed to have an OBE and did my usual method
After 30 minutes or so I started to feel a tingling or vibrating sensation in my body like I usually do when I am about to have an OBE.

I guess it went about a total of 45 minutes before I had the OBE, and I found myself standing in my room next to my bed, while my body was still in the bed, appearing to be sleeping, I could here it breath.

I decided I wanted to go somewhere else, so I just thought "Get me out of the house" and suddenly I was down in the subway systems of my city, pretty neat. I was standing on the stairs leading down to the platform where the train stops. Several people were walking around, going to school, job etc (this was done in the morning, easier then for me)

I touched the walls next to me and it felt solid and real, and I could smell the wet concrete tunnel I was standing in. A man was walking up the stairs towards my direction, he did not seem to be able to seem me, and walked right through me. I felt a kind of rush as he did. I looked at some girls that was pretty sweet down at the platform, and I walked down to them.

There was standing several people waiting for the train to come, and I tried to touch a man just for fun. My hand went through him. He did not seem to notice anything of my actions. It was like being an invisble ghost, pretty neat.

I thought it would be cool to wait for the train to come, and go for a ride in that while out of body, that would be a weird thing I decided. I looked at the tunnel where the train comes from, but before the train came, I saw a strange blueish person/spirit floatin in the air out of the tunnel. He looked very nice, a bit fat, and was smiling. He moved his legs in a way that looked like he was cycling through the air and he waved to me. I wanted to go to him an try to communicate with him, but before I made it the train came out of the tunnel and through the blue man/spirit who seemed to be sucked along with the train. He was then gone, and I was looking for him, and the train was filled with people and moved before I thought about going into it.

So instead I flew across the railroads and went out through some stairs on the other site where the trains comes the other way. I went out into the city, and floated around in the streets, feeling the air passing through my "soul" or whatever to call it. I looked around in the city for a while, I saw some people getting ready to open their stores etc, and I touched some more walls and could feel it like real and solid but my hands went through it if pushed to hard.

I stopped in a park and looked at the sky, it looked nice, and as I stared I suddenly saw some "rings" forming in the sky, like when you throw a rock into water. I thought it must be some dimensional gate, and I felt sucked towards it but I did not want to go to other dimensions this time, so instead I looked away from it and took another "walk" in the city streets.

After I had been out for about 20 minutes or so I decided to go back to my body before it would fell into too a deep sleep, which may ruin the OBE and make me forget it all due to the body-mind(brain) starting to get to drowsy and start to dream. At once I thought about going back, I was back into my body, feeling a nice pleasent numb feeling, and I sat up from bed and thought about the experience which I really had enjoyed.

So, that was one of my simpler experiences, I did travel to several other dimensions and places in the world at other occations, but its too much to write about, but I assure you it is very much to learn from these OBEs. I have met several other entities/spirits and communicated with them, and also on a few occations I have gone out of body together with my girlfriend which really is amazing. Out of body sex is also neat

All for now sorry for this long post

-Shaganoz-


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684277 - 06/17/02 03:13 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting thread dude.......thankx for the links.......surprised you didn't mention robert monroe's journeys out of the body trilogy.....many people consider those the definitive books on the subject


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #684359 - 06/17/02 03:43 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, I never felt the need to read his works, I've read what I needed to know about OBEs, I know how to do it, and the else I learn myself. Heck maybe I'll write my own book some day

But I am familiar with Monroes work of course, and several others, but Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce is my personal favourite of all those I read about the matter, covering what is needed to know in my perspective.

Take care


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684378 - 06/17/02 03:47 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well obviously you know what works for you and you have had the experiences to bear that out........all the more power to you dude


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684455 - 06/17/02 04:13 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I have attempted astral projection on many occasions, and have succeeded thrice. There are many different techniques for getting to the "vibration" state, and I have found a couple to be pretty effective for me.

- Laying down in a comfortable position, with arms by your side, legs straight. Imagine yourself in a boat, rocking gently to the left and to the right. I have done this exercise in a porch swing before. Laying down on the swing with my eyes closed and rocking it gently back and forth, and after a while, the vibrations just kicked in naturally.

- Laying down and imagining a cube about six feet above your head, focus a line from your head to the cube, and imgaine the cube moving close to you, then moving away. After you have a solid visualization, attempt to shift your perspective into the cube itself, so that you are looking down at your body. Then shift back to your own perspective, then back again.

For me, I have found it relatively easy to get the "vibrations" that are essentially a prerequisite to projection. The hard part I think, is going from the vibrations to the actual projection. It requires a very clear mind, with no expectations. Allow the vibrations to take over, immerse yourself in them, let them flow.

Another exercise that has proven very useful for me, is to stare at the blackness of your closed eyelids as if you are waiting for a movie to start. No expectations, just a constant state of waiting, almost suspensful. Like you are staring at a blank movie screen waiting for the picture to come in. Meditation before attempting an out of body experience is almost a neccessity, well, not really.. but it does help a lot. Allowing yourself to clear the clutter from your mind, controlling your thoughts, and a focused, ready state of mind is probably the best for an astral projection.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684759 - 06/17/02 06:41 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

one word: bullshit


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinedeepr
the dancer

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 238
Loc: nzl
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684765 - 06/17/02 06:46 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

okay, whats the deal with astral travel.... i have never got round to reading one of the bibles as of yet..
from what ive read, people argue that it is real...
meaning that you can put some playing cards on the table without looking what they were, and then lie down and project yourself out of your body to read them...?
inform me astral travellers please ;]


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #684816 - 06/17/02 07:27 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Uh huh.. and you base this on what? That it has not been proven by science, or that you have not experienced it so therefore my experiences are invalid?

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #684823 - 06/17/02 07:30 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

At least your quote fits you

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: deepr]
    #684851 - 06/17/02 08:05 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well there are usually two parties when it comes to astral travel. Those who say its bullshit that have never attempted it, and those who contend that it is real who have experienced it. I am no expert at astral projection as I have only done it a few times..consciously anyway. I am more of a lucid dreamer. But the links Shaganoz gave are pretty informative.
As for reading playing cards on a table while out of body.. I don't know about that. When I left my body consciously.. I was in more of a spiritual/astral plane that was like a mirror of the physical. Perhaps that is possible... but while out of body, a goal such as reading playing cards would cause a sudden return to the physical body I would think. Any fear you have while out of body would cause a return to the body.. its like a built in defense mechanism. Most people are more interested in exploring the astral plane and meeting the various entities about in that place then trying to read some cards on a table in the physical world. Perhaps an experienced astral traveller would be able to pull that off.. but for most people focusing on the physical world while out of body would cause a pull-back into the physical body.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684858 - 06/17/02 08:14 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

In other words, it reinforces my signature quote once again. There is no objective evidence that astral projection is any different than a journey of the imagination; i.e. both are similar internal states and no part of you actually travels anywhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684861 - 06/17/02 08:15 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I believe you because when I was younger, I AP'ed all the time.
I had VERY accurate visions of angles of my roof that were confirmed by a Roofer a few years later.

As puberty set in, I was able to let go, less and less. Until finally, I stopped thinking about it. And stopped having projections.
Now I try, in spurts, to have an OBE, but it doesn't happen. I have the usual 'vibe' senstion. I am still Awake enough to begin trying to Guide myself out of my actual body. Then, the vibration turns to a feeling of tearing, and a feeling, I can only describe as dream-pain, occurs.

Immediatly, I want to end the projection, and I wake. Disheveled, and upset. This is what happens to me now. And I think I have read evey book there is on the subject. (Most every book that has been mentioned) Alas, no success.

I am supposed to understand that the feeling of 'dream-pain' is my body straining against sleep parylysis. Causing a sensation of pain, but not real physical pain (i.e. not dangerous)
Any takers on why this happens?
PS- I never progect while on drugs. And my earliest memories of OBE were when I was 4 .
-OoD

Edited by OracleOfDelphi (06/18/02 06:11 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684904 - 06/17/02 08:59 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well there are usually two parties when it comes to astral travel. Those who say its bullshit that have never attempted it, and those who contend that it is real who have experienced it.
You conveniently overlooked the group of those who tried and find it to be bullshit. This a typically weak believer ploy to intimate that those who disbelieve are too lazy to investigate, which is not at all true.

from shroomism:
...a goal such as reading playing cards would cause a sudden return to the physical body...

and from OracleofDelphi:
I had VERY accurate visions of angles of my roof that were confirmed by a Roofe a few years later.

So let me get this straight, one can identify some physical objects while ATing like the design of a roof, but not the design of a playing card? I can't wait to hear the dance-around on this!



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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685018 - 06/18/02 12:39 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

From what I've read about Astral Travel, is that the astral plane is very malleable to thought. I mean, if you were to think of something, then you would see it ...the only way to avoid this is to keep your mind completely clear...so therefore if you are expectant..ie. to find out what the playing card is, then it may well take on the image of what you are expecting to see. That is what I have read anyway.

Something can be true, but yet difficult to prove scientifically.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685072 - 06/18/02 02:18 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Yes to my limited experience In astral travel, I will confirm that it is very malleable, perhaps there are different level of perception of it to, I am not really sure and it is a very intrusting phenomena.
For example the first one that I had was so real that I did not even notice that I was out until I so my body sitting in the chair, every thing look exactly like my room, until I beguine to float, and colors had some light in it, and there was sounds of bells type things, I could not control my movement.
The second one, things were reverse in my room, very confusing, I experimented on knocking on the table and felt solid, but later I flew out of the window, and instead of being in my back yard, I was in some strange city.
The third one was too short to even mention, all these experiences were random occurring, I tried many time to induce an oobe but failed. But I do believe the phenomena are real, the feeling has nothing to do with a dream.
A friend of mine that can project at will told me his experiment; I think you will find it interesting.
To prove what he was seeing was real or not he did the fallowing: before going to sleep he will get a deck of card and place one on top of his closet, with out looking, he will A.P and check what card it was, the fallowing morning he will check if the card was the same, it was not.
He will continue doing this for several days, but the twist is that he was always see the card that, that will be placed the next day, the day before. That means that when he was in the astral plane he vas seeing a future event.
I am not here to prove or disprove, this are my personal accounts and one from a friend, which I trust, take it, as you will.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685102 - 06/18/02 03:16 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

...the astral plane is very malleable to thought...

Sounds like a variety of a dream state to me.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #685106 - 06/18/02 03:24 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

That means that when he was in the astral plane he vas seeing a future event.
I am not here to prove or disprove, this are my personal accounts and one from a friend, which I trust, take it, as you will.


An interesting story, but I still don't understand why so many here fear proving out one of their unusual abilities. As I have stated countless times, if this is real (meaning not completely subjective), then it would stand up to scrutiny. When I did the Swami challenge back in February, no one was able to astral travel to my house (present or future! ) to see my hand-made Hopi silver bracelet and claim it.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685315 - 06/18/02 05:52 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I can not do a test my self because I can not control this type of experience Like I said before it just happened to me, The only thing I can say that there is something, I don't know the mechanisms of it, whether you really go out or not, but it feels like you are out, but one thing I know it is not a dream


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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #685355 - 06/18/02 06:11 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

It's not a dream. From time to time I experience what is known as "sleep paralysis" - In Astral Dynamics, Robert Bruce speculates that this is indicative of an OBE in progress. The descriptions he gives are dead on what I experience, and his explanation makes a lot of sense. It's not a dream state, I can always see the room, feel the blanket, feel the air on my skin. I won't go into what happens, i've done that before, but I have found that the experience is very dependant on my own state of mind. If I become panicky, things get scary. If I keep my cool, it can actually be quite pleasant.


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685390 - 06/18/02 06:25 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Like I said, I am no expert at astral travel. It is a skill, that must be practiced. It is not at all like a dream state, because one is conscious the entire time.

It took me about three weeks of exercises before I was able to successfully project. I could have tried once or twice and said oh this doesn't work, it is bullshit.. but I wanted to experience it. To this day I have only projected three times, and if I could do it at will whenever I wanted, then I would step up to the challenge of going out of body to confirm something from afar. However I am not that confident in my projection abilities. You failed to include in my message, I said that an experienced astral traveller might be able to pull something like that off. Or perhaps a very focused person. But for the average joe projector, who is only experimenting with this state, it is enough to even get out of the body, let alone travel somewhere and read a playing card.

The first time I projected, I was just floating above my body for a minute, when I turned around and saw my body laying there, it gave me a sudden shock and I got pulled back into it and the next thing I knew I felt a jerk and I was back in my body. The second time I got a little further, I left my room and was floating around, the place outside my house was not the physical world I was used to. It was vaguely similar, but very much different. There were lights and colors floating around, and little hills made of energy. I met another astral traveller, who was sort of in the same state I was.. in awe and just sort of floating around a seeing what there was to see. We saw each other and there was a quick exchange of glances, then I guess we got scared because we were both pulled back into our respective bodies. My third experience was similar, I left the house and was going down the "street" and meeting various entities in that place. I met some nice people, but I came across a very dark figure, with what I would call a low vibrational energy. It induced a state of fear in me, and was trying to feed off of it. This caused my sudden jerk back into the body.

I am not trying to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. These are my exepriences with astral travel, and I know they happened, that they were not a dream, and I was not imagining them. All I know is that for me, going back into my house and trying to read some cards on a table were the last thing on my mind. I felt pulled to the outside to explore the astral world. Now maybe if I projected every day and was used to exploring, I could easily control where I wanted to go and view whatever it is was my goal. However, like I said, in my experiences with oobe's, trying to confirm that you have been projecting is pretty pointless. You are aware when you have left the body, thats all the confirmation one needs. Trying to prove it to someone else is a moot point. If you want to prove that it doesn't exist, fine... but how does one go about doing that?

On a side note... the Near Death Experience, is almost identical to an Out of Body experience, the soul leaves the body, and is travelling to wherever it goes after death, when it is suddenly pulled back into the body. The only difference is that during an OOBE, the soul is attached to the body by means of a silver etheral cord.

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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #685517 - 06/18/02 07:21 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

The military/government have done it, do a search for remote viewing, its almost the same thing. Its also been scientifically researched plenty. There are tons of information about it. Tons of books. There has been documentaries about it on TV channels, like Discovery. Its a real thing, I know from my experience, whether people who have not done it believe it or not and I dont care.

And, I told a friend of mine about this, and his father got interested, and asked me how to do it. I told him, and he tried, and did an experiment, he asked his wife to take a deck of card and select a card without showing it to him and place it in another room. He went out of his body, into the room, and saw the card. He got back into his body and told his wife what he saw, and it was correct. He went and got the card by himself to check himself, and it was right. Thats what he told me and I have no doubts about his statement as I've done it myself.

His wife don't dare to try it, she thinks its a bit freaky..

Several other friends of mine whom I told how to do it, and who have tried, have managed it at some occations. But it needs practice as most things.

Interesting side notes:
After I started doing OBE's, I sometimes get them spontanously while sleeping, and I wake up outside my body. Also I became more lucid in my dreams.

I also heard about those so called "guides" that is supposed to be our helpers, never saw them though, but I did the following experiment:

I got to the vibrational state, or numb state as I often feel it, and was not able to get any further out of body. I asked if I could get some help to get out, and I then felt someone pulling my hands and dragging me out of body. Once I was out I didnt see anyone though. This have happend several times when I ask for it.

And I suppose some of you who have done mushrooms have had some OBEs induced by the shrooms, as I myself and several of my friends have experienced, floating in their room above themselves or even going to unknown places. I think some shrooms activate the part of our brain that needs to be activated to achieve to have an OBE, after all shrooms are very spiritual and been used for spiritual purposes for thousands of years.

Salvia divinorum is a plant frequently used for out of body experiences. I also tried that and it sent me to some weird places.

Other drugs also can induce OBEs. But you dont NEED the drugs to do it, as I know because I started with spiritual developement in the sense of OBE's long before I tasted any drugs (that includes shrooms etc)

But when it comes to OBEs, I prefere to do it without any drugs to have more controle of the experience and also to know its real and not just a hallucination caused by the drug-

Divine is the nature



--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

Edited by shaganoz (06/18/02 07:32 AM)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685640 - 06/18/02 08:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

FUCKING SHOW ME!!

In all my experiences with people explaining AP and whatnot, there's been only fast talk and stories. I've tried it several different ways: on drugs, sober, staring at a blank wall, meditating, imagining some object and then trying to "shake myself" out of my body AND THE LIST GOES ON. I don't think getting proof would be too hard to acquire if it were real. Hell, maybe I'm just "doing it wrong".

Most here say that they CAN do things like reading playing cards or whatever. This would NOT be a hard test. We could do another Swami Challenge? if you're adverse to travel. Or we could set up a simple test somewhere (we'll make sure it will be a mystical place, no sterile labs and white coats and so forth). The test- we'll make some cards with random symbols that the "projector" won't know about (if we used a deck of cards, there would be a possibility of mere guessing). We could have things like triangles or circles and so forth, you know, simple shapes but the "projector" won't be shown what is on any of the cards until the test is over.

Shroomism's "built in defense mechanism" sounds like a bunch of crap, it's more like Shroomism's own personal defense mechanism that gives Shroomism's beliefs immunity. If you subscribe to that, then you really can't get on my case for calling it all bullshit. But if you want to gain a believer, it's very simple... show me.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #685675 - 06/18/02 08:52 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

He's right, the CIA did train agents in remote viewing, I even have the manual in PDF form that they gave out, hell, it was even on the discovery channel. I'll send it to you if you want.

I should probably also say that this sleep paralysis thing doesn't happen when i'm sleeping, it often happens when i'm just lying on my bed, i feel a quick falling feeling, and then I can't move. There is a screeching noise in my head like a modem but a lot louder, I sometimes here voices, sometimes see figures in the room.. but i'm not sleeping, and not dreaming. There is even an article on abcnews about it. Anyway, here is a link to Robert Bruce's website for anyone who's interested. You can probably email him from there, who knows, you might be able to convince him into doing a controlled experiment.


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Edited by Revelation (06/18/02 09:01 AM)

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #685727 - 06/18/02 09:14 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

...whether you really go out or not, but it feels like you are out,...
I have no doubts that it feels like you are out, hence the strong opinions about it's authentictity. But the question is whether or not any part of you is actually travelling.

...but one thing I know it is not a dream ...
Not a "normal" dream anyway, but the descriptions of AT makes it seem to be related.

Both ATers and Dreamers:

1. are usually lying or sitting down with their eyes closed.
2. are able to pass through walls and can fly.
3. have trouble focusing on objects.
4. can not bring back any physical object or data from consensus reality.

This may indeed be another state of consciousness, but have heard nothing to convince me that one is actually travelling anywhere.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685740 - 06/18/02 09:17 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

and his explanation makes a lot of sense...
An explanantion that makes sense to you does not mean it is valid. ENRON execs gave explanations that appeared valid for quite some time.

It's not a dream state, I can always see the room, feel the blanket, feel the air on my skin.
This violates Swami's Law of Consistency. One can feel the blanket and the air (tactile pressure), but not a wall when one passes through it.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685757 - 06/18/02 09:22 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

When you are in that state relax more and think about floating up. Try to FEEL you are floating, not only think it.. Try to feel how it would be to be somewhere else in the room, looking from that perspective.

And yes Robert Bruce is a nice guy, he gave me some help when I needed it.

As to experiments: Another person I met online years ago claimed to be a "professional" astral traveler. I asked him for proofs. He said Ok I'll go out of body, fly to you and see what you look like, and go back and tell you. At night he did it, and told me a perfect description of me the next day. I had not any pictures of myself on the pc back then, nor any places on the net. He also got some other information regarding me that he possibly could not have gotten in any "normal" way.

Personally I am not that good yet so that I can go out and fly to a person I have only talked with online and find out what he looks like, at least I dont think, never tried really. But I do get to some interesting places every now and then, and I have seen what other people have been doing etc. neat


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685761 - 06/18/02 09:24 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, according to Robert Bruce you can indeed feel a wall when you pass through it, as well as taste it. When projecting out in a storm you can feel the rain pass through you.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685785 - 06/18/02 09:32 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Yup. I experienced that myself. Interesting feeling it is.
I feel the wind blowing through me as well. You can touch things and feel their solidness but pushing too hard you'll go through.

Kinda like being a ghost I suppose. Maybe thats what those ghosts are anyway, souls with no bodies but still around. Mostly invisible though


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685811 - 06/18/02 09:38 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Btw you should go read my posting about sleep paralysis and hallucinations, and the link to an article included. Its at The Entheogenic Experience >> Spirituality and Philosophy, subject is Out of Body related matter: Sleep Paralysis

Several people had sleep paralysis but never OBE, and being aware of the sleep paralysis state can be what is needed to induce an OBE from that state.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685826 - 06/18/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

The military/government have done it, do a search for remote viewing...
It was so successful that they abandoned it. Rather than find Bin Laden using remote-viewing, the USA would rather waste time, money and young men's lives.

There has been documentaries about it on TV channels, like Discovery...
All TV shows and documentaries are true? "Sightings", "Crossing Over", "The Alien Autopsy", "In Search of..." are all fountains of factual data? *coughs*

Tons of books.
Same as some TV shows, they are created primarily to make money not to educate.

Its a real thing,
In your not-so-humble opinion.

...whether people who have not done it believe it or not and I dont care.
Your apathy is indicative of nothing at all. Seems that everyone with a paranormal power eventually develops this character flaw. A truly inquisitive mind cares very deeply.

Several other friends of mine whom I told how to do it, and who have tried, have managed it at some occations.
I can manage to do it roughly 2% of the time, pretty amazing for a total novice, huh?


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #685828 - 06/18/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

...an experienced astral traveller might be able to pull something like that off.
Bring him on. I am so very tired of amateur psychics, inexperienced Astral Travellers, apprentice telepathics, and junior magicians. Where, oh where, the fuck is the REAL DEAL?

Trying to prove it to someone else is a moot point.
Apparently so. Only authentic experiences can be validated.

Note that I don't make this stuff up. Authors of books about Astral Travel (and OracleofDelphi here) have made some very specific claims, that if true, should be able to be validated. You have read the books and know what I am talking about - tell me here and now that I am wrong about this.

Again, I don't doubt that you entered a previously unexperienced mind state, but the interpretation that your subtle body actually left your room.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685835 - 06/18/02 09:43 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

He's right, the CIA did train agents in remote viewing, ...
Your basic sidetrack. The question is not whether the CIA trained agents in RVing, but whether or not they were successful. If something works, one does not abandon it like the CIA did.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685870 - 06/18/02 09:52 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

You can touch things and feel their solidness but pushing too hard you'll go through.
To feel something there must be pressure and resistance. If you are moving through something solid then there can be no resistance, hence no sensation of touch. This type of inconsistency is consistent with a dream state.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685875 - 06/18/02 09:53 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Its not easy to use for wrong intentions. I know from my experience at least. I say its real because I've done it, I experimented, and was successfull. I didnt use to think it was possible but I though, what the heck, I can give it a try, beacuse I found so many people saying it was real there had to be something to it. And there was. And why should I care if anyone else believe it? If you dont believe its possible dont do it, if you do believe its possible and want to learn it, then do it. And live on.

The developement of telekinetic powers also seems to be real after my own personal experiments. Not that I'm any good with it.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685890 - 06/18/02 10:01 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

To feel something there must be pressure and resistance. If you are moving through something solid then there can be no resistance, hence no sensation of touch. This type of inconsistency is consistent with a dream state.

So you're saying that it's impossible, but yet it can be experienced within a dream state?


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685932 - 06/18/02 10:13 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I dont know or even care how it works, but feeling resistance and pressure is possible while out of body, even though one can pass through things.

Nothing to argue about

Also, in my opinion, dreams are also some form of OBE. But unaware, usually, if not a lucid dream.

What is real anyway, this world or the dreams. Maybe both. In your dream you might be dreaming this now and sleeping there, like you sleep here and dreaming dreams that happens "there". Some other dimension or whatever, I dont really care, it is what it is.


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Edited by shaganoz (06/18/02 10:17 AM)

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685935 - 06/18/02 10:16 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Dreams do not comply with the laws of physics because they are all in the mind and not an interaction with the real world. OBEs also do not follow a consistent set of rules and are most likely an internal state of consciousness as well.


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Edited by Swami (06/18/02 10:43 AM)

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685940 - 06/18/02 10:19 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Its not internal, if it was internal, I would not go out being external from my body, able to see whats going on outside, in other rooms, other peoples houses, and get it verified thereafter. It might be a combination though.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685954 - 06/18/02 10:26 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Yes that's exactly what I felt, I test knocking at the table and felt solid, and yet I flew thru a close window.
For the rest, trying to prove or disprove, who cares, for the ones that had this experience you know that something is happening, and for the ones that never had this type of experience what can I say, don't believe it.
Is like trying to explain a shroom trip to some one you never had done any drugs, you can't convey the experience, you have to live it for your self.
Lobo has spoken!


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #685965 - 06/18/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Its not easy to use for wrong intentions.
Why not? Every other human power may easily be used for wrong intentions.

And why should I care if anyone else believe it?
That is such a sad question. I hope that this attitude is not representative of the next generation.

You learned from other people who care enough to take the time to show you and then you ask why you should care? Why should I show my "Little Brother" how to throw a baseball? Why did your teachers teach you how to read & write? Why did your parents care enough to raise you? We are communicating right now, because of people who cared. They cared to do research and validate their ideas and then share them. We care because we are a community of humans.

The developement of telekinetic powers also seems to be real after my own personal experiments. Not that I'm any good with it.
Unlike ALL of the other paranormal "powers", this one is unique and very special to us skeptics. You don't have to be very good at it to demonstrate it's authenticity. One can't guess at telekinesis like picking out a card. Just doing it once in a thousand tries would blow my mind.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685982 - 06/18/02 10:37 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

OBEs also do not follow a consistenct set of rules

Different place, different rules. Nobody knows the rules of the astral plane yet as it has not been studied in this way. Maybe there are no rules, maybe the only rules are set by the limits of our imagination.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685986 - 06/18/02 10:39 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

That is such a sad question. I hope that this attitude is not representative of the next generation. You learned from other people who care enough to take the time to show you and then you ask why you should care? Why should I show my "Little Brother" how to throw a baseball? Why did your teachers teach you how to read & write? Why did your parents care enough to raise you? We are communicating right now, because of people who cared. They cared to do research and validate their ideas and then share them. We care because we are a community of humans.

Wow Swami you brought some tears to my eyes with that speech!
Say waw waw what!


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686003 - 06/18/02 10:46 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

"Its not easy to use for wrong intentions.
Why not? Every other human power may easily be used for wrong intentions."

I dont know why, it just seems to be that way. That did also the government discover, the military. There is a man who used to be in the military training their people in Remote viewing who got out of the government and now teaches everyone who wants to learn. Sorry for my bad english :P

"And why should I care if anyone else believe it?
That is such a sad question. I hope that this attitude is not representative of the next generation."

If someone dont believe and wants proves I give a shit cause its not my mission to save the world and let everyone be psychic gods or whatever.

"The developement of telekinetic powers also seems to be real after my own personal experiments. Not that I'm any good with it.
Unlike ALL of the other paranormal "powers", this one is unique and very special to us skeptics. You don't have to be very good at it to demonstrate it's authenticity. One can't guess at telekinesis like picking out a card. Just doing it once in a thousand tries would blow my mind. "

I am only able to do telekinetic activitives while out of body by some reason. And its only been a very few times, and needs alot of focusing and concentration. What I did one time was going out of body, trying to get a pencil on my desk to fall down. After some time I managed it. Another time I pushed a piece of paper. Only small easy objects. I think there is an connection between the OBEs and telekinetic as well as other psychic powers. I am doing my research privately, and I am writing about it, logging it, and will eventually publish it.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #686006 - 06/18/02 10:47 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Is like trying to explain a shroom trip to some one you never had done any drugs, you can't convey the experience, you have to live it for your self.

Only in one sense. However, If I give 10g of potent cubes to anyone on this planet they WILL experience the bemushroomed state. OBE exercises only seem to work for a very small percentage of the population.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #686021 - 06/18/02 10:54 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Its not internal, if it was internal, I would not go out being external from my body, able to see whats going on outside, in other rooms, other peoples houses, and get it verified thereafter.

If it is external, then why is it impossible for anyone to travel to my house and verify it for me?

You said twice that you don't care. There MUST be things that you care about; a new PC, a nice house, travel, a Ferrari, sexy women. Some paranormalist out there must care about Randi's $1,000,000. Wouldn't you like a cool million bucks?

If you want to warm up first, I will offer $1000 in yet another Swami Challenge to anyone who can Astral Travel to my house and identify an object.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #686030 - 06/18/02 10:56 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Wow Swami you brought some tears to my eyes with that speech!

LOL! I am just practicing for my run at the Senate...


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Offlineshaganoz
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OBE & Astral projection links and books [Re: Swami]
    #686088 - 06/18/02 11:24 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Some links to sites about OBEs, astral projection, and other related material:

Ouf of Body Experiences FAQ:
http://www.lycaeum.org/altered/astral/astral.htm

Astral Society:
http://www.astralsociety.com/

The Astral Experience:
http://www.whiteoakdesign.net/timekillers//astral/index.html

Search and Prove:
http://www.oesi.com/searchandprove/

Brain Wave Mind Voyages:
http://www.brainwaveentrainment.com/

Spiritweb:
http://www.spiritweb.org

Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce:
http://www.astraldynamics.com
http://www.astralpulse.com

The Lucidity Institute:
http://www.lucidity.com/

Balabenes OBE's and Astral Page
http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~a8424mae/english/engindex.htm

William Buhlmans OBE and Astral Projection site:
http://www.mach1audio.com/out-of-body/

Reccommanded Books:
get them at Amazon.com

Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce
Adventures Beyond the Body by William Buhlman
Leaving the Body: A complete guide to Astral Projection by D. Scott Rogo

Those 3 books are the only ones I can really reccommand, many bad books out there, and many only trying to gain some money. But the three above have really studied the out of body experience and astral projection matter, and done alot of research, and come up with great methods, especially Robert Bruce, his methods are the best I ever found, you will develope your psychic self by doing his exercises and following instructions from beginning to end and you should end up being able to have an OBE. Hopefully several like me and many many others.

take care


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686104 - 06/18/02 11:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

-"If it is external, then why is it impossible for anyone to travel to my house and verify it for me?"

Its not impossible. the problem is to find some person who would do it. Personally I have no interest. There is much more important things for me to do in OBEs, and much more spiritual knowledge to get for me, as well as developing myself. And, its not easy doing what you ask for, I'm not a OBE master that can do it whenever I want to. Someone did the thing you ask for with me once though, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Too bad I dont know where he is these days, maybe he would have done it.

-"You said twice that you don't care. There MUST be things that you care about; a new PC, a nice house, travel, a Ferrari, sexy women. Some paranormalist out there must care about Randi's $1,000,000. Wouldn't you like a cool million bucks?"

I dont care for money. I got what I need. I have enough to buy my food and rent and bills. I would prefere less things really.


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #686132 - 06/18/02 11:42 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I see. There is nothing spiritual that you could perhaps do for others with a $1,000,000? A homeless shelter, an OBE school, diabetes research, Christian Childrens' fund, save the Rain Forest, etc....

Isn't it spiritual to help to open the eyes of others to new possibilities? Or is your spirituality exemplified by selfishness and apathy?


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686142 - 06/18/02 11:49 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I have not been chosen by the Gods to help or serve others then myself. If I want to help someone, then I do, if I dont, then I dont. Depends. What happens happens. Maybe you should help them with those thousand dollars of yours.


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #686145 - 06/18/02 11:50 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't you use your powers to find missing children?

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #686157 - 06/18/02 11:56 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I need to locate my inner child...


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686162 - 06/18/02 12:00 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

With the amount of bovine fecal matter that comes out in this forum, it's amazing that mushrooms aren't sprouting from the server.

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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #686175 - 06/18/02 12:09 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Evolving: Why don't you use your powers to find missing children?

I tried finding some missing person once, and I got some information where he might be, but I never told anyone, instead I'll wait and see if they find him where I think he might be. If I told them where he is maybe they think I wasted him, hard to explain them how I got the information if u know..


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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #686228 - 06/18/02 12:43 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

are you saying swami that your house and inanimate household objects are well documented and signposted on the astral plane
\

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686346 - 06/18/02 01:53 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Bring him on. I am so very tired of amateur psychics, inexperienced Astral Travellers, apprentice telepathics, and junior magicians. Where, oh where, the fuck is the REAL DEAL?

Well, seeing as how our world has been sunken into a pit of one sided logic and religion for the past five thousand years, the real deal is few and far between. I would expect though, that with the transformation the world is undergoing now, more and more people will be tapping into these abilities as well as getting much better at them. I don't claim to be a master psychic, telepath, astral traveller, or whatever else. I do claim that I have experienced them. Give me more time to get some more experience under my belt, and maybe I will clairvoyantly describe your house in every detail, or maybe even further down the road, I will telekenetically lift you into the air and spin you in circles in the atmosphere. Until myself or someone else does this though, please remain the hardcore skeptic that we love and cherish. The day Swami comes on this board and starts talking about his experiences with telepathy is the day I demateralize or something.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #686347 - 06/18/02 01:54 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

If I told them where he is maybe they think I wasted him, hard to explain them how I got the information if u know..

OK, so don't tell them, but post it here so that it is time-stamped. When the body shows up you can scan in the newspaper article and prove your powers.

The Swam bends over backwards to be accommodating.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #686355 - 06/18/02 02:01 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't you use your powers to find missing children?

There is a similar process, but instead of finding missing children, you find missing souls. It is called soul retrieval. It involves projecting yourself, finding a person who has died, but has not left the physical world. In other words they are a soul without a body, but still believe they are living in the physical world. Some people call them ghosts. But they are just lost souls. All they need is a little guidance, and there are many people who participate in soul retrievals, which entails entering the astral realm, finding one of these souls, consoling with them, and getting them to come with you to where they need to be. Once they have agreed, you take them into a higher spiritual plane, where a spiritual being, who some would call an angel, is waiting for them. The angels cant do it themselves, because they are not in the physical world. We help them and meet them halfway.

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #686642 - 06/18/02 05:12 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I ask about something that may actually help people (no monetary profit involved - use your powers for the good of the innocent) and in typical fashion we're presented with more meaningless unverifiable malarkey. The "mystic side step" is a predictable little dance, it only goes in circles.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #686673 - 06/18/02 05:26 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I just remembered a story I once heard, written in the first person:

"I was hiking through the woods one day. A pine forest carpeted with red needles... it was beautiful, it SMELLED beautiful. A brisk pace through this heaven and out of the corner of my eye, a sparkle. But the sparkle wasn't mine, no, it came from under the carpet. A blue, crystalline rock that didn't belong. Bent down, I picked it up. At that moment the light of the world entered my body and I became a true god. I had found the philosopher's stone. And do you know what I did? I thought about everyone else in the world and said "Fuck 'em all!" and I dug a deep hole at the base of a nondescript tree and dropped it in. I buried it, closed my eyes, spun around, and walked away. I'll never find it again... I hope."

So, if you refuse to share... you're either a liar or selfish.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #686786 - 06/18/02 06:17 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

and from OracleofDelphi:
I had VERY accurate visions of angles of my roof that were confirmed by a Roofe a few years later.

So let me get this straight, one can identify some physical objects while ATing like the design of a roof, but not the design of a playing card? I can't wait to hear the dance-around on this!




Swami, I wil not try to explain this to ya, because I myself dont know how it is possible.
My 'experience' with AP is very hazy. As a child, I thought projection was normal. I did not read books on it, trying to 'test' my abilities.

I'm of the School of Ripleys, 'Believe it or Not' - But dont discount it cause You cant/wont/dont do it.
-OoD

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OfflineAshfo
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Registered: 06/18/02
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Anonymous]
    #686949 - 06/18/02 07:52 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I'm from the Astral Pulse Forums where someone posted asking one of us to prove the OBE by travelling to his house and identifying a mysterious object. Not surprisingly you know little of the Astral - that is not an insult, but what you ask is something incredibly difficuilt even for very experienced projectors (of which I am not).

It has been attempted to be proven in lab experiments where a number is placed above the person on the wall and out of eye-reach. The person then projects into the room and tries to read the number. It has not been proven this method as of yet, however one subject did report seeing another person in the corridor (which was out of eye-shot and ear-shot). This person was infact the wife of one of the overseers who came to say hi to her husband.

The main reason I'm posting here is because I can relate to your experiences. It was an intense dex trip which made me re-read the dex FAQ and notice that some people could actually induce themselves to go out of body without drugs. As I have always used drugs cautiously and didn't want to rely on them for OBEs this interested me and I looked into it. I'm sure you have had similar trips - shrooms are usually not as potent as dex or salvia (another strong OBE inducing drug) however many of you have probably had experience with other drugs and been out of body.

I urge you to look into it if it interests you, don't sit around demanding proof and criticizing those who are interested in expanding their minds.

- Ashfo

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Ashfo]
    #687027 - 06/18/02 08:39 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Ashfo: I urge you to look into it if it interests you, don't sit around demanding proof and criticizing those who are interested in expanding their minds.

You've got to be fucking joking, right?
I heard about some guy who drilled holes into his head to "aerate his brain" which would supposedly make him smarter or "expand his mind". His mind wasn't expanded, but his knowledge of a hospital was. Not thinking critically put him there... but you're right, who am I to question his beliefs?
Not that you'll be subject to such an extreme, but I think you can see my point:
it is actually possible for you to be wrong. (not morally wrong... just incorrect)

Unless it was proven that "aerating" one's brain will expand one's mind, I won't support anyone who attempts such a ridiculous feat (I might not anyways, but I would recognize the concept if it were correctly proven). This goes the same for Astral Projection. Don't take it personally, I'm not calling you a liar per se... I just think you misinterpreted an "experience" (at least).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlineshaganoz
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #687237 - 06/19/02 12:51 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Sclorch: Doing Astral Projecting/Out of Body Experiences does not including drilling holes in the head.. Ever heard of meditation? OBE is some kind of similar experience yet in another form for other purposes.

You dont actually do anything physically to yourself and cant be hurt or damaged.

So trying OBE will at the worst only be that you are not able to do it.


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

Edited by shaganoz (06/19/02 12:52 AM)

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #687261 - 06/19/02 01:19 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

there is a difference between Astral Projection, Remote Viewing, and good ol' OBEs.
Teachers/Books/BB seem to lack a consensus of terminology in these matters; this does not make things easier...

the Astral plane is a war zone.
there are REAL dangers.

draw a pentagram, and walk through it...

~

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Offlineshaganoz
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Middleman]
    #687276 - 06/19/02 01:32 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Yes there is difference. As I know its like this:

Astral Projection: When you project out of body into some other astral plane/dimension. Maybe this is what dreams are

OBE: When you project out of body, but in this physical world. Like when you go out of body and find yourself in your room, its an OBE

Remote Viewing: When you have abbility to see whats happening somewhere else then where you are physically, but still you feel your physical body and might be able to communicate and move it. Unlike OBE's and AP where body is more in a sleep condition.


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #687320 - 06/19/02 02:19 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well this forum turns always into the same guacamole:
Prove it, disprove it, I am right you are wrong, na na na na na I am sick of it
All of the people that stated that they had an oobe, (my self include it) please state to the others ones that we are crazy, delusional and that we make things up. Are you happy now!
Well can we continue with this (totally made up topic) because I am crazy and I like talking to my crazy brothers, about our crazy psychotic nightly episodes.

Every thing that I post makes no sense, every thing that happens to me has no scientific proof, the only scientific proof about all events in my life is that I am mentally ill.


--------------------

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #687438 - 06/19/02 04:00 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

hey sclorch
In reply to:

I heard about some guy who drilled holes into his head to "aerate his brain" which would supposedly make him smarter or "expand his mind". His mind wasn't expanded, but his knowledge of a hospital was.



its called trepanning
http://www.trepan.com/
some people

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #687522 - 06/19/02 05:22 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Hello I am crazy and delusional. Oh yeah and a non-critical thinker. Anyway..

I was under the impression that Astral Projection and OOBEs were the same thing? They both involve leaving the body and entering into the astral realm. Maybe what I have experienced was astral projections and not an OOBE? I don't know.. then again, like I stated before.. as a child I often found myself floating above my body after waking up.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: mr crisper]
    #688204 - 06/19/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

LOBO- I have no problem with you talking crazy... just do it in the insane forum, kay?

mr crisper- thanks for the link... really amusing. They call psilocybin, mescaline, and LSD "psychovitamins"! hehe


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineDanimal
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Registered: 04/12/02
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #688792 - 06/19/02 05:14 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

To all practicing, experienced, master OBE'ers, AT'ers, etc., I have a question/semi test for you fellas to try out. Stephen LaBerge made numerous techniques and advances in the field of lucid dreaming(being aware that you're dreaming). In the Lucid Dreaming FAQ(from the Lucidity Institute) it says one way to test if you're awake or dreaming is to attempt to turn on light switches. For some reason, in the dream state, it is impossible to switch lights on/off. As well, another clue is to pick up any object with writing on it, read its text, look away and then read it again. The words will have changed and is an indication that you're dreaming. If OBE, AP, etc. is infact the "real deal" and not dream variations, these tasks should be a piece of cake and I'd say a sufficient beginning to further examine their merits. Maybe y'all should simultaneously OBE to any of the skeptics houses one night, flick their bedroom lights on and off repeatively while rereading some object found in the room to verify it's not word-shifting.

Just imagine what would happen if pedophilies were able to have OBE's and spent their lives traveling to the showers of little boys bathing, scarey!!! I guess it'd lead to an increase in voyeurism and a decrease in actual fucking, maybe that wouldn't be so bad.

Peace folks.

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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #689577 - 06/20/02 02:51 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well this is the spirituality forum.
In a spiritually forum you exchange ideas about the spirit.

Spirit: 1 vital animating essence of a person or animal; soul. (hum.....) 2 ghost (Ghosts..... huu huuu) from the dictionary.

Spirit, is there any scientific proof of it's existence?
Absolutely not.
Can you measure or weight the spirit?
No
According to you guys if can not prove that the spirit exist, just like an oobe, and I quote you "one word: bullshit", the sprit has to be crazy talk.
So I am in the right forum, is you who are in the wrong place you should go to skeptic forum.
An less you are crazy and you just don't know it yet

And I challenge you to prove me that the spirit exist, lets say $10K


--------------------

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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #689732 - 06/20/02 04:55 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well put Lobo

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #691577 - 06/20/02 09:02 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Lobo lobo lobo....
You only used ONE definition of spirituality... the one concerned with supernatural phenomena. Convenient that you didn't opt for the others:
-of or relating to sacred matters (I haven't heard anyone calling aliens sacred yet, but...)
-concerned with religious values (funny how YOU don't really cling to this one either, but this one is at least arguable)

Since spirituality is tied with PHILOSOPHY in this forum, I think these definitions of spirit would cohere better:

"One simple, undivided, active being- as it perceives ideas it is called the understanding, as it produces or otherwise operates about them it is called the will." - George Berkeley

"Awareness, intelligence, recollection. It requires no dogmas."
-George Santayana

"Not a thing apart... it is in every thought and every word and every act."
-Benjamin N. Cardozo


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #691705 - 06/21/02 01:49 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Sclorch, sclorch, sclorch, what did you expect from one that had an oobe.
Just because it is not in your spectrum of experience, does not mean, it does not exist.
I don't talk about aliens, because I never experience them, even thou I find them hard to believe, I don't go denying them nor accepting them I just keep and open mind.
Because you no what, I have been proven wrong before.
So I only talk about things that I have some experience.
And if you don't want to believe in oobe, that's fine but why you want to convert us into your mold of thinking.
Are you a Jehovah witness or some thing?


--------------------

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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
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Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #694404 - 06/22/02 02:03 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Got them on my door today. (Jehovas.)
They suck.

They say we go to hell if we dont do what they say to be true, with no methods on getting any evidence. I need to know from experience not from words.

I got my experience on the spiritual from OBEs among other things. I know some things, some things I dont know, and many things I wonder. But I dont believe in what has not been experienced. There are ways to experience, and then know, Sometimes you still wonder though :P


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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OfflineMushIsMyTool
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #975525 - 10/19/02 08:32 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

why do you want to leave your body prematurely? Don't you think that you will have plenty of time to be out of your body when all is said and done? I'll bet you are one of those people who went out and read lord of the rings so they could find out what is going to happen in the next movie. I am too. Bu t I think in this case I am going to just enjoy the time I have in my body.

The new LOTR is gonna rock by the way. Dec 17!! I can't wait.


--------------------
- You're not your fuckin khakies!

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: MushIsMyTool]
    #975577 - 10/19/02 09:04 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #975755 - 10/19/02 10:27 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I find it far more interesting and convincing when a person can spell words correctly when trying to convey an idea.  To me, that is exciting!

But hey, that's just me.  :smirk:

Cheers, 

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OfflineMushIsMyTool
Stranger
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 9
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #975835 - 10/19/02 11:12 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Comments like that make me realize that I don't want to become a message board junkie.


--------------------
- You're not your fuckin khakies!

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