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 shaganoz
researcher
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
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 Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs)  [Re: ]
#685517 - 06/18/02 07:21 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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The military/government have done it, do a search for remote viewing, its almost the same thing. Its also been scientifically researched plenty. There are tons of information about it. Tons of books. There has been documentaries about it on TV channels, like Discovery. Its a real thing, I know from my experience, whether people who have not done it believe it or not and I dont care.
And, I told a friend of mine about this, and his father got interested, and asked me how to do it. I told him, and he tried, and did an experiment, he asked his wife to take a deck of card and select a card without showing it to him and place it in another room. He went out of his body, into the room, and saw the card. He got back into his body and told his wife what he saw, and it was correct. He went and got the card by himself to check himself, and it was right. Thats what he told me and I have no doubts about his statement as I've done it myself.
His wife don't dare to try it, she thinks its a bit freaky..
Several other friends of mine whom I told how to do it, and who have tried, have managed it at some occations. But it needs practice as most things.
Interesting side notes:
After I started doing OBE's, I sometimes get them spontanously while sleeping, and I wake up outside my body. Also I became more lucid in my dreams.
I also heard about those so called "guides" that is supposed to be our helpers, never saw them though, but I did the following experiment:
I got to the vibrational state, or numb state as I often feel it, and was not able to get any further out of body. I asked if I could get some help to get out, and I then felt someone pulling my hands and dragging me out of body. Once I was out I didnt see anyone though. This have happend several times when I ask for it.
And I suppose some of you who have done mushrooms have had some OBEs induced by the shrooms, as I myself and several of my friends have experienced, floating in their room above themselves or even going to unknown places. I think some shrooms activate the part of our brain that needs to be activated to achieve to have an OBE, after all shrooms are very spiritual and been used for spiritual purposes for thousands of years.
Salvia divinorum is a plant frequently used for out of body experiences. I also tried that and it sent me to some weird places.
Other drugs also can induce OBEs. But you dont NEED the drugs to do it, as I know because I started with spiritual developement in the sense of OBE's long before I tasted any drugs (that includes shrooms etc)
But when it comes to OBEs, I prefere to do it without any drugs to have more controle of the experience and also to know its real and not just a hallucination caused by the drug-
Divine is the nature
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Edited by shaganoz (06/18/02 07:32 AM)
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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685640 - 06/18/02 08:30 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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FUCKING SHOW ME!!
In all my experiences with people explaining AP and whatnot, there's been only fast talk and stories. I've tried it several different ways: on drugs, sober, staring at a blank wall, meditating, imagining some object and then trying to "shake myself" out of my body AND THE LIST GOES ON. I don't think getting proof would be too hard to acquire if it were real. Hell, maybe I'm just "doing it wrong".
Most here say that they CAN do things like reading playing cards or whatever. This would NOT be a hard test. We could do another Swami Challenge? if you're adverse to travel. Or we could set up a simple test somewhere (we'll make sure it will be a mystical place, no sterile labs and white coats and so forth). The test- we'll make some cards with random symbols that the "projector" won't know about (if we used a deck of cards, there would be a possibility of mere guessing). We could have things like triangles or circles and so forth, you know, simple shapes but the "projector" won't be shown what is on any of the cards until the test is over.
Shroomism's "built in defense mechanism" sounds like a bunch of crap, it's more like Shroomism's own personal defense mechanism that gives Shroomism's beliefs immunity. If you subscribe to that, then you really can't get on my case for calling it all bullshit. But if you want to gain a believer, it's very simple... show me.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
#685675 - 06/18/02 08:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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He's right, the CIA did train agents in remote viewing, I even have the manual in PDF form that they gave out, hell, it was even on the discovery channel. I'll send it to you if you want.
I should probably also say that this sleep paralysis thing doesn't happen when i'm sleeping, it often happens when i'm just lying on my bed, i feel a quick falling feeling, and then I can't move. There is a screeching noise in my head like a modem but a lot louder, I sometimes here voices, sometimes see figures in the room.. but i'm not sleeping, and not dreaming. There is even an article on abcnews about it. Anyway, here is a link to Robert Bruce's website for anyone who's interested. You can probably email him from there, who knows, you might be able to convince him into doing a controlled experiment.
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Edited by Revelation (06/18/02 09:01 AM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
#685727 - 06/18/02 09:14 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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...whether you really go out or not, but it feels like you are out,...
I have no doubts that it feels like you are out, hence the strong opinions about it's authentictity. But the question is whether or not any part of you is actually travelling.
...but one thing I know it is not a dream ...
Not a "normal" dream anyway, but the descriptions of AT makes it seem to be related.
Both ATers and Dreamers:
1. are usually lying or sitting down with their eyes closed.
2. are able to pass through walls and can fly.
3. have trouble focusing on objects.
4. can not bring back any physical object or data from consensus reality.
This may indeed be another state of consciousness, but have heard nothing to convince me that one is actually travelling anywhere.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685740 - 06/18/02 09:17 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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and his explanation makes a lot of sense...
An explanantion that makes sense to you does not mean it is valid. ENRON execs gave explanations that appeared valid for quite some time.
It's not a dream state, I can always see the room, feel the blanket, feel the air on my skin.
This violates Swami's Law of Consistency. One can feel the blanket and the air (tactile pressure), but not a wall when one passes through it.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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shaganoz
researcher
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685757 - 06/18/02 09:22 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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When you are in that state relax more and think about floating up. Try to FEEL you are floating, not only think it.. Try to feel how it would be to be somewhere else in the room, looking from that perspective.
And yes Robert Bruce is a nice guy, he gave me some help when I needed it.
As to experiments: Another person I met online years ago claimed to be a "professional" astral traveler. I asked him for proofs. He said Ok I'll go out of body, fly to you and see what you look like, and go back and tell you. At night he did it, and told me a perfect description of me the next day. I had not any pictures of myself on the pc back then, nor any places on the net. He also got some other information regarding me that he possibly could not have gotten in any "normal" way.
Personally I am not that good yet so that I can go out and fly to a person I have only talked with online and find out what he looks like, at least I dont think, never tried really. But I do get to some interesting places every now and then, and I have seen what other people have been doing etc. neat
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-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
#685761 - 06/18/02 09:24 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually, according to Robert Bruce you can indeed feel a wall when you pass through it, as well as taste it. When projecting out in a storm you can feel the rain pass through you.
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shaganoz
researcher
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
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Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685785 - 06/18/02 09:32 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yup. I experienced that myself. Interesting feeling it is.
I feel the wind blowing through me as well. You can touch things and feel their solidness but pushing too hard you'll go through.
Kinda like being a ghost I suppose. Maybe thats what those ghosts are anyway, souls with no bodies but still around. Mostly invisible though
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shaganoz
researcher
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Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685811 - 06/18/02 09:38 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Btw you should go read my posting about sleep paralysis and hallucinations, and the link to an article included. Its at The Entheogenic Experience >> Spirituality and Philosophy, subject is Out of Body related matter: Sleep Paralysis
Several people had sleep paralysis but never OBE, and being aware of the sleep paralysis state can be what is needed to induce an OBE from that state.
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-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685826 - 06/18/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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The military/government have done it, do a search for remote viewing...
It was so successful that they abandoned it. Rather than find Bin Laden using remote-viewing, the USA would rather waste time, money and young men's lives.
There has been documentaries about it on TV channels, like Discovery...
All TV shows and documentaries are true? "Sightings", "Crossing Over", "The Alien Autopsy", "In Search of..." are all fountains of factual data? *coughs*
Tons of books.
Same as some TV shows, they are created primarily to make money not to educate.
Its a real thing,
In your not-so-humble opinion.
...whether people who have not done it believe it or not and I dont care.
Your apathy is indicative of nothing at all. Seems that everyone with a paranormal power eventually develops this character flaw. A truly inquisitive mind cares very deeply.
Several other friends of mine whom I told how to do it, and who have tried, have managed it at some occations.
I can manage to do it roughly 2% of the time, pretty amazing for a total novice, huh?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
#685828 - 06/18/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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...an experienced astral traveller might be able to pull something like that off.
Bring him on. I am so very tired of amateur psychics, inexperienced Astral Travellers, apprentice telepathics, and junior magicians. Where, oh where, the fuck is the REAL DEAL?
Trying to prove it to someone else is a moot point.
Apparently so. Only authentic experiences can be validated.
Note that I don't make this stuff up. Authors of books about Astral Travel (and OracleofDelphi here) have made some very specific claims, that if true, should be able to be validated. You have read the books and know what I am talking about - tell me here and now that I am wrong about this.
Again, I don't doubt that you entered a previously unexperienced mind state, but the interpretation that your subtle body actually left your room.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685835 - 06/18/02 09:43 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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He's right, the CIA did train agents in remote viewing, ...
Your basic sidetrack. The question is not whether the CIA trained agents in RVing, but whether or not they were successful. If something works, one does not abandon it like the CIA did.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685870 - 06/18/02 09:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can touch things and feel their solidness but pushing too hard you'll go through.
To feel something there must be pressure and resistance. If you are moving through something solid then there can be no resistance, hence no sensation of touch. This type of inconsistency is consistent with a dream state.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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shaganoz
researcher
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
#685875 - 06/18/02 09:53 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its not easy to use for wrong intentions. I know from my experience at least. I say its real because I've done it, I experimented, and was successfull. I didnt use to think it was possible but I though, what the heck, I can give it a try, beacuse I found so many people saying it was real there had to be something to it. And there was. And why should I care if anyone else believe it? If you dont believe its possible dont do it, if you do believe its possible and want to learn it, then do it. And live on.
The developement of telekinetic powers also seems to be real after my own personal experiments. Not that I'm any good with it.
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
#685890 - 06/18/02 10:01 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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To feel something there must be pressure and resistance. If you are moving through something solid then there can be no resistance, hence no sensation of touch. This type of inconsistency is consistent with a dream state.
So you're saying that it's impossible, but yet it can be experienced within a dream state?
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shaganoz
researcher
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685932 - 06/18/02 10:13 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dont know or even care how it works, but feeling resistance and pressure is possible while out of body, even though one can pass through things.
Nothing to argue about
Also, in my opinion, dreams are also some form of OBE. But unaware, usually, if not a lucid dream.
What is real anyway, this world or the dreams. Maybe both. In your dream you might be dreaming this now and sleeping there, like you sleep here and dreaming dreams that happens "there". Some other dimension or whatever, I dont really care, it is what it is.
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-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-
Edited by shaganoz (06/18/02 10:17 AM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
#685935 - 06/18/02 10:16 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dreams do not comply with the laws of physics because they are all in the mind and not an interaction with the real world. OBEs also do not follow a consistent set of rules and are most likely an internal state of consciousness as well.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (06/18/02 10:43 AM)
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shaganoz
researcher
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
#685940 - 06/18/02 10:19 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its not internal, if it was internal, I would not go out being external from my body, able to see whats going on outside, in other rooms, other peoples houses, and get it verified thereafter. It might be a combination though.
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-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-
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LOBO
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685954 - 06/18/02 10:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes that's exactly what I felt, I test knocking at the table and felt solid, and yet I flew thru a close window.
For the rest, trying to prove or disprove, who cares, for the ones that had this experience you know that something is happening, and for the ones that never had this type of experience what can I say, don't believe it.
Is like trying to explain a shroom trip to some one you never had done any drugs, you can't convey the experience, you have to live it for your self.
Lobo has spoken!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
#685965 - 06/18/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its not easy to use for wrong intentions.
Why not? Every other human power may easily be used for wrong intentions.
And why should I care if anyone else believe it?
That is such a sad question. I hope that this attitude is not representative of the next generation.
You learned from other people who care enough to take the time to show you and then you ask why you should care? Why should I show my "Little Brother" how to throw a baseball? Why did your teachers teach you how to read & write? Why did your parents care enough to raise you? We are communicating right now, because of people who cared. They cared to do research and validate their ideas and then share them. We care because we are a community of humans.
The developement of telekinetic powers also seems to be real after my own personal experiments. Not that I'm any good with it.
Unlike ALL of the other paranormal "powers", this one is unique and very special to us skeptics. You don't have to be very good at it to demonstrate it's authenticity. One can't guess at telekinesis like picking out a card. Just doing it once in a thousand tries would blow my mind.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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