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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 23 days, 16 hours
Learning to go out of the body (without drugs)
    #684233 - 06/17/02 05:01 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I dont know if you believe it in or not but its quite possible to leave the body and travel around in this world or other wolds and dimensions and higher astral planes. The reason I know is because I did it myself, long before I started using ANY drugs at all, never even had tried a drug back then. So I know its not just drug hallucinations, because what you experience in out of body can be confirmed (like going seeing what your neighbours doing hehe)

Its not the hardest thing to learn neither, and there is tons of information about it. And you will learn much from the out of body experience, giving more meaning to the questions about life, death and existence.

And also, it is not dreams, you do it fully counsious/awake (mind awake, body sleep) and you can go back to your body when you want to and then you can remember what you experienced and write it down for logging I reccommand.

So how do you do it? Well, I will not write down the methods here because there are allready many good books about it (and sites). I highly reccommand the following books that really works if you follow the books instructions from beginning to end and dont just READ the book but DO the exercises. Then you should be able to have OBE's at will.

OBE = Out of Body Experience a.k.a. Astral Projection
(Very reccommanded, I had my first OBE 4 weeks after trying)

1. Astral Dynamics
by Robert Bruce ( http://www.astraldynamics.com )

2. Adventures Beyoud the Body
3. The Secret Of The Soul
both by William Buhlman ( http://www.out-of-body.com )

Other reccommanded sites:

Spirit Web:
http://www.spiritweb.org

Spirit Online:
http://www.spiritonline.com

Ballabene's Astral Page:
http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/Alfred.Ballabene/english/engindex.htm

I could tell you my own experiences but they are just too many, but here is one of my first ones anyway:

Somtime in 1999:
I went to my bed to have an OBE and did my usual method
After 30 minutes or so I started to feel a tingling or vibrating sensation in my body like I usually do when I am about to have an OBE.

I guess it went about a total of 45 minutes before I had the OBE, and I found myself standing in my room next to my bed, while my body was still in the bed, appearing to be sleeping, I could here it breath.

I decided I wanted to go somewhere else, so I just thought "Get me out of the house" and suddenly I was down in the subway systems of my city, pretty neat. I was standing on the stairs leading down to the platform where the train stops. Several people were walking around, going to school, job etc (this was done in the morning, easier then for me)

I touched the walls next to me and it felt solid and real, and I could smell the wet concrete tunnel I was standing in. A man was walking up the stairs towards my direction, he did not seem to be able to seem me, and walked right through me. I felt a kind of rush as he did. I looked at some girls that was pretty sweet down at the platform, and I walked down to them.

There was standing several people waiting for the train to come, and I tried to touch a man just for fun. My hand went through him. He did not seem to notice anything of my actions. It was like being an invisble ghost, pretty neat.

I thought it would be cool to wait for the train to come, and go for a ride in that while out of body, that would be a weird thing I decided. I looked at the tunnel where the train comes from, but before the train came, I saw a strange blueish person/spirit floatin in the air out of the tunnel. He looked very nice, a bit fat, and was smiling. He moved his legs in a way that looked like he was cycling through the air and he waved to me. I wanted to go to him an try to communicate with him, but before I made it the train came out of the tunnel and through the blue man/spirit who seemed to be sucked along with the train. He was then gone, and I was looking for him, and the train was filled with people and moved before I thought about going into it.

So instead I flew across the railroads and went out through some stairs on the other site where the trains comes the other way. I went out into the city, and floated around in the streets, feeling the air passing through my "soul" or whatever to call it. I looked around in the city for a while, I saw some people getting ready to open their stores etc, and I touched some more walls and could feel it like real and solid but my hands went through it if pushed to hard.

I stopped in a park and looked at the sky, it looked nice, and as I stared I suddenly saw some "rings" forming in the sky, like when you throw a rock into water. I thought it must be some dimensional gate, and I felt sucked towards it but I did not want to go to other dimensions this time, so instead I looked away from it and took another "walk" in the city streets.

After I had been out for about 20 minutes or so I decided to go back to my body before it would fell into too a deep sleep, which may ruin the OBE and make me forget it all due to the body-mind(brain) starting to get to drowsy and start to dream. At once I thought about going back, I was back into my body, feeling a nice pleasent numb feeling, and I sat up from bed and thought about the experience which I really had enjoyed.

So, that was one of my simpler experiences, I did travel to several other dimensions and places in the world at other occations, but its too much to write about, but I assure you it is very much to learn from these OBEs. I have met several other entities/spirits and communicated with them, and also on a few occations I have gone out of body together with my girlfriend which really is amazing. Out of body sex is also neat

All for now sorry for this long post

-Shaganoz-


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-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684277 - 06/17/02 05:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Very interesting thread dude.......thankx for the links.......surprised you didn't mention robert monroe's journeys out of the body trilogy.....many people consider those the definitive books on the subject


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Offlineshaganoz
researcher

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 247
Loc: Some cold place
Last seen: 23 days, 16 hours
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #684359 - 06/17/02 05:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, I never felt the need to read his works, I've read what I needed to know about OBEs, I know how to do it, and the else I learn myself. Heck maybe I'll write my own book some day

But I am familiar with Monroes work of course, and several others, but Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce is my personal favourite of all those I read about the matter, covering what is needed to know in my perspective.

Take care


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684378 - 06/17/02 05:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well obviously you know what works for you and you have had the experiences to bear that out........all the more power to you dude


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684455 - 06/17/02 06:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I have attempted astral projection on many occasions, and have succeeded thrice. There are many different techniques for getting to the "vibration" state, and I have found a couple to be pretty effective for me.

- Laying down in a comfortable position, with arms by your side, legs straight. Imagine yourself in a boat, rocking gently to the left and to the right. I have done this exercise in a porch swing before. Laying down on the swing with my eyes closed and rocking it gently back and forth, and after a while, the vibrations just kicked in naturally.

- Laying down and imagining a cube about six feet above your head, focus a line from your head to the cube, and imgaine the cube moving close to you, then moving away. After you have a solid visualization, attempt to shift your perspective into the cube itself, so that you are looking down at your body. Then shift back to your own perspective, then back again.

For me, I have found it relatively easy to get the "vibrations" that are essentially a prerequisite to projection. The hard part I think, is going from the vibrations to the actual projection. It requires a very clear mind, with no expectations. Allow the vibrations to take over, immerse yourself in them, let them flow.

Another exercise that has proven very useful for me, is to stare at the blackness of your closed eyelids as if you are waiting for a movie to start. No expectations, just a constant state of waiting, almost suspensful. Like you are staring at a blank movie screen waiting for the picture to come in. Meditation before attempting an out of body experience is almost a neccessity, well, not really.. but it does help a lot. Allowing yourself to clear the clutter from your mind, controlling your thoughts, and a focused, ready state of mind is probably the best for an astral projection.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684759 - 06/17/02 08:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

one word: bullshit


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinedeepr
the dancer

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 238
Loc: nzl
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684765 - 06/17/02 08:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

okay, whats the deal with astral travel.... i have never got round to reading one of the bibles as of yet..
from what ive read, people argue that it is real...
meaning that you can put some playing cards on the table without looking what they were, and then lie down and project yourself out of your body to read them...?
inform me astral travellers please ;]



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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #684816 - 06/17/02 09:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Uh huh.. and you base this on what? That it has not been proven by science, or that you have not experienced it so therefore my experiences are invalid?


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #684823 - 06/17/02 09:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

At least your quote fits you


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: deepr]
    #684851 - 06/17/02 10:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well there are usually two parties when it comes to astral travel. Those who say its bullshit that have never attempted it, and those who contend that it is real who have experienced it. I am no expert at astral projection as I have only done it a few times..consciously anyway. I am more of a lucid dreamer. But the links Shaganoz gave are pretty informative.
As for reading playing cards on a table while out of body.. I don't know about that. When I left my body consciously.. I was in more of a spiritual/astral plane that was like a mirror of the physical. Perhaps that is possible... but while out of body, a goal such as reading playing cards would cause a sudden return to the physical body I would think. Any fear you have while out of body would cause a return to the body.. its like a built in defense mechanism. Most people are more interested in exploring the astral plane and meeting the various entities about in that place then trying to read some cards on a table in the physical world. Perhaps an experienced astral traveller would be able to pull that off.. but for most people focusing on the physical world while out of body would cause a pull-back into the physical body.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684858 - 06/17/02 10:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In other words, it reinforces my signature quote once again. There is no objective evidence that astral projection is any different than a journey of the imagination; i.e. both are similar internal states and no part of you actually travels anywhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: shaganoz]
    #684861 - 06/17/02 10:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I believe you because when I was younger, I AP'ed all the time.
I had VERY accurate visions of angles of my roof that were confirmed by a Roofer a few years later.

As puberty set in, I was able to let go, less and less. Until finally, I stopped thinking about it. And stopped having projections.
Now I try, in spurts, to have an OBE, but it doesn't happen. I have the usual 'vibe' senstion. I am still Awake enough to begin trying to Guide myself out of my actual body. Then, the vibration turns to a feeling of tearing, and a feeling, I can only describe as dream-pain, occurs.

Immediatly, I want to end the projection, and I wake. Disheveled, and upset. This is what happens to me now. And I think I have read evey book there is on the subject. (Most every book that has been mentioned) Alas, no success.

I am supposed to understand that the feeling of 'dream-pain' is my body straining against sleep parylysis. Causing a sensation of pain, but not real physical pain (i.e. not dangerous)
Any takers on why this happens?
PS- I never progect while on drugs. And my earliest memories of OBE were when I was 4 .
-OoD


Edited by Anonymous (06/18/02 08:11 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: ]
    #684904 - 06/17/02 10:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well there are usually two parties when it comes to astral travel. Those who say its bullshit that have never attempted it, and those who contend that it is real who have experienced it.
You conveniently overlooked the group of those who tried and find it to be bullshit. This a typically weak believer ploy to intimate that those who disbelieve are too lazy to investigate, which is not at all true.

from shroomism:
...a goal such as reading playing cards would cause a sudden return to the physical body...

and from OracleofDelphi:
I had VERY accurate visions of angles of my roof that were confirmed by a Roofe a few years later.

So let me get this straight, one can identify some physical objects while ATing like the design of a roof, but not the design of a playing card? I can't wait to hear the dance-around on this!



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,130
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685018 - 06/18/02 02:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

From what I've read about Astral Travel, is that the astral plane is very malleable to thought. I mean, if you were to think of something, then you would see it ...the only way to avoid this is to keep your mind completely clear...so therefore if you are expectant..ie. to find out what the playing card is, then it may well take on the image of what you are expecting to see. That is what I have read anyway.

Something can be true, but yet difficult to prove scientifically.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685072 - 06/18/02 04:18 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yes to my limited experience In astral travel, I will confirm that it is very malleable, perhaps there are different level of perception of it to, I am not really sure and it is a very intrusting phenomena.
For example the first one that I had was so real that I did not even notice that I was out until I so my body sitting in the chair, every thing look exactly like my room, until I beguine to float, and colors had some light in it, and there was sounds of bells type things, I could not control my movement.
The second one, things were reverse in my room, very confusing, I experimented on knocking on the table and felt solid, but later I flew out of the window, and instead of being in my back yard, I was in some strange city.
The third one was too short to even mention, all these experiences were random occurring, I tried many time to induce an oobe but failed. But I do believe the phenomena are real, the feeling has nothing to do with a dream.
A friend of mine that can project at will told me his experiment; I think you will find it interesting.
To prove what he was seeing was real or not he did the fallowing: before going to sleep he will get a deck of card and place one on top of his closet, with out looking, he will A.P and check what card it was, the fallowing morning he will check if the card was the same, it was not.
He will continue doing this for several days, but the twist is that he was always see the card that, that will be placed the next day, the day before. That means that when he was in the astral plane he vas seeing a future event.
I am not here to prove or disprove, this are my personal accounts and one from a friend, which I trust, take it, as you will.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Revelation]
    #685102 - 06/18/02 05:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

...the astral plane is very malleable to thought...

Sounds like a variety of a dream state to me.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #685106 - 06/18/02 05:24 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

That means that when he was in the astral plane he vas seeing a future event.
I am not here to prove or disprove, this are my personal accounts and one from a friend, which I trust, take it, as you will.


An interesting story, but I still don't understand why so many here fear proving out one of their unusual abilities. As I have stated countless times, if this is real (meaning not completely subjective), then it would stand up to scrutiny. When I did the Swami challenge back in February, no one was able to astral travel to my house (present or future! ) to see my hand-made Hopi silver bracelet and claim it.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685315 - 06/18/02 07:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I can not do a test my self because I can not control this type of experience Like I said before it just happened to me, The only thing I can say that there is something, I don't know the mechanisms of it, whether you really go out or not, but it feels like you are out, but one thing I know it is not a dream


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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,130
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Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: LOBO]
    #685355 - 06/18/02 08:11 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

It's not a dream. From time to time I experience what is known as "sleep paralysis" - In Astral Dynamics, Robert Bruce speculates that this is indicative of an OBE in progress. The descriptions he gives are dead on what I experience, and his explanation makes a lot of sense. It's not a dream state, I can always see the room, feel the blanket, feel the air on my skin. I won't go into what happens, i've done that before, but I have found that the experience is very dependant on my own state of mind. If I become panicky, things get scary. If I keep my cool, it can actually be quite pleasant.


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Anonymous

Re: Learning to go out of the body (without drugs) [Re: Swami]
    #685390 - 06/18/02 08:25 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Like I said, I am no expert at astral travel. It is a skill, that must be practiced. It is not at all like a dream state, because one is conscious the entire time.

It took me about three weeks of exercises before I was able to successfully project. I could have tried once or twice and said oh this doesn't work, it is bullshit.. but I wanted to experience it. To this day I have only projected three times, and if I could do it at will whenever I wanted, then I would step up to the challenge of going out of body to confirm something from afar. However I am not that confident in my projection abilities. You failed to include in my message, I said that an experienced astral traveller might be able to pull something like that off. Or perhaps a very focused person. But for the average joe projector, who is only experimenting with this state, it is enough to even get out of the body, let alone travel somewhere and read a playing card.

The first time I projected, I was just floating above my body for a minute, when I turned around and saw my body laying there, it gave me a sudden shock and I got pulled back into it and the next thing I knew I felt a jerk and I was back in my body. The second time I got a little further, I left my room and was floating around, the place outside my house was not the physical world I was used to. It was vaguely similar, but very much different. There were lights and colors floating around, and little hills made of energy. I met another astral traveller, who was sort of in the same state I was.. in awe and just sort of floating around a seeing what there was to see. We saw each other and there was a quick exchange of glances, then I guess we got scared because we were both pulled back into our respective bodies. My third experience was similar, I left the house and was going down the "street" and meeting various entities in that place. I met some nice people, but I came across a very dark figure, with what I would call a low vibrational energy. It induced a state of fear in me, and was trying to feed off of it. This caused my sudden jerk back into the body.

I am not trying to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. These are my exepriences with astral travel, and I know they happened, that they were not a dream, and I was not imagining them. All I know is that for me, going back into my house and trying to read some cards on a table were the last thing on my mind. I felt pulled to the outside to explore the astral world. Now maybe if I projected every day and was used to exploring, I could easily control where I wanted to go and view whatever it is was my goal. However, like I said, in my experiences with oobe's, trying to confirm that you have been projecting is pretty pointless. You are aware when you have left the body, thats all the confirmation one needs. Trying to prove it to someone else is a moot point. If you want to prove that it doesn't exist, fine... but how does one go about doing that?

On a side note... the Near Death Experience, is almost identical to an Out of Body experience, the soul leaves the body, and is travelling to wherever it goes after death, when it is suddenly pulled back into the body. The only difference is that during an OOBE, the soul is attached to the body by means of a silver etheral cord.


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