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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
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Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
    #1801846 - 08/11/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I view it as a distinction without a difference.

If there is no travel to real locales, then it is pure imagination and nothing out of the ordinary. 




How do you figure?!.. :confused:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1801853 - 08/11/03 01:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mabye its unrecognizable?



Then why bother putting it in your metaphysics at all?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1801894 - 08/11/03 01:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

but having such a ridiculous contest is proof enough for you.

Dear Az,

Swami Challenges are NOT created in a void, but IN RESPONSE TO SPECIFIC claims that members made. Thus far, every single claimant has been unable to validate their metaphysicals skills.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1801906 - 08/11/03 01:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, they probably did a test for it similar to a swami challenge.....WELL THAT SETTLES THAT!!!....no remote viewing exists.

Failure on a test or series of tests is hardly indicative of success, now is it? 3000+ members had 30 days to identify the object. At one try per day that is a possible 90,000 experiments; yet you roll it all up as one try. *AHEM*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
    #1801924 - 08/11/03 01:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

What are the point to your challenges then? to convince you that such a thing is impossible, or to convince them?



--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1801945 - 08/11/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Separating truth from falsehood is a good point, isn't it?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1802190 - 08/11/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

When truth and falsehood don't exist, there is no point.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1802245 - 08/11/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

When truth and falsehood don't exist, there is no point.



All right. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection either, obviously. When truth exists, there may or may not be some truth in astral projection. That's what is being disputed here, with the challenges and everything. No one has so far demonstrated information transfer from beyond their own head when doing astral projection, so the theory that it's all just imagination still holds.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1802289 - 08/11/03 03:23 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
All right. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection either, obviously. When truth exists, there may or may not be some truth in astral projection. That's what is being disputed here, with the challenges and everything. No one has so far demonstrated information transfer from beyond their own head when doing astral projection, so the theory that it's all just imagination still holds.




Correct. When truth doesn't exist, there is no truth in astral projection, either. That is sort of my point. You can either think on one side or the other of the paradox to think rationally, right? hahaha! .

What happened to innocent until proven guilty? IF no one has demonstrated information transfer by astral projection, THEN the theory that it is all in one's imaginatinon still holds? Is this a good IF/THEN statement, everyone? Those assumptions will kill you, my boy.

By the way, science only can prove that something does not exist, not that it DOES exist. I might be wrong on that, though, so please tell me.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1802476 - 08/11/03 04:14 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

How could you prove something doesnt exist? :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1802581 - 08/11/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I was talking in relation to science... nice try, though. hehe

Science is great and all, but it is just too damn analytical and cold!
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1804802 - 08/12/03 06:27 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What happened to innocent until proven guilty? IF no one has demonstrated information transfer by astral projection, THEN the theory that it is all in one's imaginatinon still holds? Is this a good IF/THEN statement, everyone? Those assumptions will kill you, my boy.



Innocent until proven guilty is also an assumption. In scientific theories, "proven guilty" is replaced by "falsified" (a la Karl Popper). The theory that astral projection is all in your head would be falsified by a single case of verifiable information transfer from outside the head during an astral journey.

The other theory seems to say that astral projection is an invisible, undetectable part of you that leaves your body (while still being attached to it by an undetectable cord) and travels around freely in space, or at least to the edge of the galaxy, at speeds much faster than light. Did I get this right?

I don't know if this theory is falsifiable even in principle, except by demonstrating astral travel outside the galaxy. But it does make claims about reality, and such claims must either be deduced from other claims, or be confirmed by direct observation. All other claims can be cut away by Occam's Razor without changing any essential aspect of the theory. The problem is that if we cut away all the unconfirmed claims of the travelling-outside-your-head theory, nothing is left. Without support, the theory collapses.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1805666 - 08/12/03 12:58 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever tried it?  Your argument seems based on the fact that astral projection is something proveable.  I agree with you there is little tangible support for the theory of astral projection, but lets say we both knew how to astrally project.  How could you prove to people you did it?  It doesn't really relate to science because it is such an inexplicable concept we wouldn't even know where to begin.  It may be explainable, but we probably don't have the knowledge to do so yet...

just some thoughts... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1805848 - 08/12/03 01:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I thought we already covered that part. I would prove it by flying my astral body over to Swami's place and take a good look at the piece of paper with a message on it that he has (hopefully) prepared in advance and placed on his kitchen table. Then I would report back here with the exact wording of that message.

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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1806209 - 08/12/03 03:04 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever personally met Swami? I'm not speaking from personal experience here, but I've read a lot on the subject from ppl that do it a lot. Many of them say it is virtually impossible to visit someone you don't know- you might see Swami, but it'd be your idea of Swami you're interacting with, not the real person. Another thing to keep in mind is your astral self is not your everyday self. That self may ignore your conscious plans and take you to a grassy meadow instead. Or someplace else.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1806225 - 08/12/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
I thought we already covered that part. I would prove it by flying my astral body over to Swami's place and take a good look at the piece of paper with a message on it that he has (hopefully) prepared in advance and placed on his kitchen table. Then I would report back here with the exact wording of that message.
 




And if you didn't report the wording then it is impossible to astral project.  Can you not see how faulty such a 'test' would be?  Inconclusive?!  all the variables?!...limitations???

  If i could astrally project i'd go off an explore the unknown.  I would feel no need to prove shit to anyone who didn't want to learn.  Hell i'd even stop by swamis on the way back to see there is no paper out, and he never really wanted to be convinced in the first place....just discredit. :wink:


edit: btw...your loosing the staring contest! :smirk:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...o=1&fpart=1


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

Edited by Azmodeus (08/12/03 03:10 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Jellric]
    #1806229 - 08/12/03 03:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

So you are in effect saying that you cannot bring back real information using AT (which is counter to some claims). If you cannot, then there is no way to positively state that some part of you ACTUALLY leaves the room and travels to distant locales.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Swami]
    #1806239 - 08/12/03 03:12 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Mabye its like watching tv.  You don't go anywhere but you can see things you've never seen before....although i doubt it.  But i haven't even tried it yet, so i can't say one way or the other....
What happened in your experiece swami? :smile:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1806263 - 08/12/03 03:20 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

the only reason I see astral projection as "traveling" is because it takes me places I've never been and shows me things I've never seen. So, either I'm seeing a foriegn place or I have greatly underestimated the creative power of my subconscious.

Nothing I have seen while projecting has led me to believe that the sensorium comes from *my* mind, as I am pretty familiar with my mind and whats in there.

As for verifying the claim that one can visit specific physical locations... well I've never tried, so I would never make that claim.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Do Mushrooms Affect One's Ability to Astral Project? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1806303 - 08/12/03 03:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Here is Swami's Astral Travel exercise (no sham!):

Lie down in a darkened room when you are NOT tired and make sure that you are to have no distractions for about an hour.

Concentrate all of your awareness into your little toe on your left foot. You will be able to tell if you are doing it right as you will feel it vibrating and maybe twitching. DO NOT RUSH any part of this exercise. Procede SLOWLY with each toe. Stay with each part until you feel the sensation. Then switch feet. Repeat with ALL body parts moving slowly up your legs. You may skip over your genital area as you already have too much experience focusing awareness there and the sensations will be a distraction. Then do abs, chest neck, face, ears and scalp. Save your off-hand arm for last. (I am right-handed so I save my left arm until the end.) Focus into each finger until it tingles as you move up your arm, feel it getting lighter. Try not to consciously raise your arm, but if you do it right it will float up; if you are using a "standard" muscle contraction it will get tired and convulse. Feel your hand moving of it's own volition towards your face. KNOW that when your index finger touches your nose you WILL immediately leave your body. Keep your breathing realxed and deep; try not to get excited.

If done correctly and s-l-o-w-l-y will full awareness, you will defintiely experience SOMETHING when your hand touches your face. This is not something that you need to practice. DO IT RIGHT the first time. It should take about an hour.

Now tell the Swam again how he is clueless and ignorant and has not explored...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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