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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Astral projecting [Re: AppalachianGuy]
    #7072775 - 06/20/07 11:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What do you understand by the "self".
If you identify the "self" just with the mental construct you reach the conclusions you did.
What about our awareness?
I mean yes, it lives in a perfect symbiotic state with the brain, but are they one and the same? No
That superconscious IS the "soul". Is information, energy. It happens everywhere around us, not just inside of us.
You make the further connections :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineAppalachianGuy
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Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 270
Loc: US
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Astral projecting [Re: AppalachianGuy]
    #7072790 - 06/20/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What Is A Spirit Guide?
Many modern psychics[attribution needed] subscribe to the theosophical view of who a spirit guide is. According to this doctrine, spirit guides would be persons who have lived many former lifetimes, have paid their karmic debts, and have advanced beyond a need to reincarnate. Each is assigned to watch over an incarnate person, not only on this Earth but on many other planets throughout the universe. Many psychics believe that spirit guides are chosen on "the other side" by us and God(s) before we incarnate, and that they guide us to follow our life's plan because we want them to.

Some people[attribution needed] claim it is possible to meet one's spirit guide in dreams or on the astral plane (see Astral Projection). Their guidance is said, by some, not to require mediumship.


[edit] Who Is A Spirit Guide?
The Gnostic religious view of a spirit guide is that, on the other side, you and your guide planned your life on earth before you incarnated. You would live the life and your spirit guide would help you along the way. Thus, if this is the case, everyone has a spirit guide because everyone planned their life prior to being born. Therefore, the spirit guide couldn't be a living relative, or an animal. Furthermore, a guide is said to have lived at least one earthly life before becoming a spirit guide so that they can understand the struggles of human life.

Here's the link if you'd like to read more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_guide


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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." ~ George Carlin

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: AppalachianGuy]
    #7072824 - 06/21/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Again, I know the definition of a spirit guide :lol:
And again, I met "spirit guides" which turned out to be "me" on further analysis.
I don't have problems with knowing the term, I just don't adhere to it.
Or not in this case.
What I am talking about is exactly what I specified in my previous post, and if you take a close look are read it carefully, it doesn't really contradict what you're saying, it only contradicts labeling. That's a huge difference.
Manifestation of information. Of awareness, perceived by our psyche in "humanoid" forms in order to make them become more discernible to our minds and the way that we're used to perceive things.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineAppalachianGuy
Learning
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Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 270
Loc: US
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7072881 - 06/21/07 12:15 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Mmm I don't know. I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. The one time that I can remember the experience of seeing this spirit guide was kind of like this:
It was dark and in a forrest, there were others walking past me and heading towards a small building. Almost reminded me of students going to a classroom. As I was walking, I observed a man in a robe (dressed diferently than the others.) off in the distance, maybe about 40 feet away, he was looking at me and walking towards the building but walking beside me at my same pace(at a distance). The feeling I got was that he wanted me to go inside with him. I wasn't scared, but I chose not to go. It was a positive experience.
After other lucid dreams and aware during sleep paralysis occurences, I was reading with ym girlfriend and talking in a bookstore and she remembered my dream and said "Maybe that was your spirit guide?" When I thought about it, everything seemed to fall into place. But that's just my take.


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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." ~ George Carlin

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: SurCal]
    #7073280 - 06/21/07 01:42 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SurCal said:
Is it Bull shit or what?




I am by no means amazed that people obsessed with finding supernatural features in their own world manage to interpret aspects of their dreams as reality. Everyone wants a super power. People have founded popular religions with less to go on.

But to answer your question simply, "Uh huh." The only thing that interests me about "astral projection" is that almost anyone who talks about it somehow manages to bore the living crap out of me almost immediately. "Wow, so you have an elemental guide too? That's really interesting. Hey, I think my phone is vibrating."


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Offlinejoekenorer
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7073511 - 06/21/07 02:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah. I don't accept any spiritual aspect of it, only mental (And that alone goes way out there). The simple answer is "ITS all in your mind", but the complex question is "WHATS in your mind". This is simply a topic not worth discussing because none of us know, despite how much we might think we do.


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My favorites are weeping willows, which aren't really weeping at all. They're very wispy, witty and will dance in the breeze with you. Nothing like a tree that wants to dance with you. Although it doesn't like its thin limbs being pulled at all, it absolutely LOVES it when you walk through them, letting them gently slide over your face and shoulders. If you're naked, the willow considers it to be sex. It will orgasm on your mind and you will blow dream chunks into outer space. All very fun until your neighbor sees you.                                    -The Joekenorer

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Astral projecting [Re: SurCal]
    #7074080 - 06/21/07 08:05 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Is it Bull shit or what?

I think True Believers really do kid themselves into believing this is for real, but the truth is that the Out Of Body Experience (OBE) has a well-described, confirmable, and repeatable neurological origin; in other words, it's all in your head and the feeling that you're 'astral traveling' is all imagination.

There is a structure in the brain that is attributed with this sensation. This area of the brain is credited with giving a person the sensation of existing inside their head and is one explanation for why people who recover from anoxia often report OBEs.

The area in question is called the Angular Gyrus. It's located in the parietal lobe (top-back) of the brain near where the sense of balance is processed. The AG is larger in hominids than in other primates. It's involved in language processing and particularly with the comprehension of metaphors. People with injury to the AG are unable to interpret metaphors and can only comprehend the literal meaning of the words while all other language skills remain unaffected.

The relationship to OBEs was first found while treating a woman for intractable epilepsy. To localize the source of the patient's seizures, doctors at the University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne in Switzerland implanted electrodes in the patient's brain. With the patient awake, they probed her brain to map the pathology.

Stimulation of the AG caused various sensations including "sinking into the bed", "falling from a height", "seeing myself lying in bed from above", "floating", and all the other sensations people who claim OBEs report.

Electrical stimulation of the AG causes these sensations because it disrupts the ability of the brain to make sense of touch and balance input. It has been suggested (though not confirmed yet) that sleep may disturb the neurological activity near the AG which may be involved in the phenomenon of lucid dreaming.

When there are two explanations for the same observation, the rational one that is supported by the available neurological evidence [it's all in my head] is more likely to be correct than the wild, unevidenced, implausible one [my consciousness is ACTUALLY traveling to another place even though I can't accurately report what page the phone book is open to].


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSurCal
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Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 197
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Astral projecting [Re: Diploid]
    #7075121 - 06/21/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you everyone for there posts and info. I have came to the conclusion that astral projection is indeed bullshit.And is most likley just a hardcore lucid dream. Damn thats too bad that would be pretty crazy if it was real.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Astral projecting [Re: SurCal]
    #7075428 - 06/21/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

sigh i guess all your emotions and feelings are just chemical reactions in the brain and arnt real diploid too. so i guess they should be ignored only science is real and isnt a means of explaining its just what is and your no differnt then a rock you just got chemcials that make you think you feel and make you think and since you only think you are and the chemcials are the only thing that make you think its not real so you should just stand very still and never move. cause if you do some chemicals might make some neurons fire that might give you the appearance that your moving and then sensory organs might agree with them so watch out... NOTHING IS REAL NOT EVEN YOUR PERCEPTION OR THE PERCEPTION OF OTHERS ITS JUST CHEMCIALS...

any who i used to have lady Huasca as my spirit guide but she got repleaced by my future self and my future self acts as a guide to otheres too.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Edited by thedudenj (06/21/07 02:04 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7075557 - 06/21/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

so i guess [emotions] should be ignored

I didn't say that. Where are you getting this?

Emotions are real phenomenon. That at the bottom of it all they are the result of chemistry doesn't mean they shouldn't be studied. But emotions are evidenced. This evidence exists in measurable physiological and electroencephalographic responses.

The evidence for astral projection currently consists of people who claim they can do it who fail EVERY test science has ever proposed. Science doesn't study the Flying Spaghetti Monster either for exactly the same reason.

How can something be studied if there is nothing to study? It's not like science hasn't TRIED to study it; it's just that every time science looks for the phenomenon, it's doesn't occur.

What do you want? For scientists to just make up some shit when an experiment fails to find any evidence of AP? Sorry but that's not what science does; that's what mysticism does. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Astral projecting [Re: Diploid]
    #7075605 - 06/21/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

science isnt advanced enough to study astral projection or the invisble energy


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7075662 - 06/21/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

... or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Tooth Fairy, or even Santa Clause, for that matter. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Astral projecting [Re: Diploid]
    #7075998 - 06/21/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

... santa clause is real thats a fact siberian shamanism has taught us this. abunch of white people took factual stuff and made a capitalistic game out of thousands of years of trandition and shamanic stuff.

my question the is whats your opinion on what shamans and druids do and what about their results in healing people?


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7076375 - 06/21/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

santa clause is real thats a fact

What's his cell phone number? :tongue:

whats your opinion on what shamans and druids do

The same as any other mystic or astrologer or priest or whatever: they make up dogma and never change even in the face of evidence that contradicts their dogma.

Example: astral projectors who can't do it when a scientist is watching, but they can do it just fine the rest of the time. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSurCal
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 197
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7076766 - 06/21/07 07:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
sigh i guess all your emotions and feelings are just chemical reactions in the brain and arnt real diploid too. so i guess they should be ignored only science is real and isnt a means of explaining its just what is and your no differnt then a rock you just got chemcials that make you think you feel and make you think and since you only think you are and the chemcials are the only thing that make you think its not real so you should just stand very still and never move. cause if you do some chemicals might make some neurons fire that might give you the appearance that your moving and then sensory organs might agree with them so watch out... NOTHING IS REAL NOT EVEN YOUR PERCEPTION OR THE PERCEPTION OF OTHERS ITS JUST CHEMCIALS...





Wow thats a really negative way to look at things.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Astral projecting [Re: Diploid]
    #7076888 - 06/21/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

sigh Santa clause isnt a one person go to Siberia still in this modern day just ask the Koryak or the other amanita tribes that where the red and white suit and climb in peoples fire-pit entrance aka chimney. so no i dont think they even use phones.

any who so what about people that have been cured of cancer or other diseases by medicine men.
as for astral projection and a scientist just read Fred Alan Wolfs stuff he talks about shamans bending reality infront of him with out the use of drugs just straight up him going oh shit


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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OfflineSurCal
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 197
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7077053 - 06/21/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
sigh Santa clause isnt a one person go to Siberia still in this modern day just ask the Koryak or the other amanita tribes that where the red and white suit and climb in peoples fire-pit entrance aka chimney. so no i dont think they even use phones.

any who so what about people that have been cured of cancer or other diseases by medicine men.
as for astral projection and a scientist just read Fred Alan Wolfs stuff he talks about shamans bending reality infront of him with out the use of drugs just straight up him going oh shit





Lol wtf do aminitas have to do with santa clause? Sanata clause is based off of Saint Nicholas of Myra . He was a 4th century Christian bishop of Myra in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes. He was very religious from an early age and devoted his life entirely to Christianity. In Europe (more precisely the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and Germany) he is still portrayed as a bearded bishop in canonical robes. The relics of St. Nicholas were transported to Bari in southern Italy by some enterprising Italian merchants; a basilica was constructed in 1087 to house them and the area became a pilgrimage site for the devout. Saint Nicholas became revered by many as the patron saint of seamen, merchants, archers, children, prostitutes, pharmacists, lawyers, pawnbrokers, prisoners, the city of Amsterdam and of Russia. In Greece, Saint Nicholas is substituted for Saint Basil, a 4th century AD bishop from Caesarea. Also, the Northern part of the Netherlands and a few villages in Flanders, Belgium, celebrate a near identical figure, Sint-Maarten (Saint Martin of Tours). Just because aminatas are red and white haha.

" any who so what about people that have been cured of cancer or other diseases by medicine men."

Show me some links and proof. If it is true its because our mind is stronger than we think. If you truly beleive youve been cured then your going to be healed. I have a friend of mine who was diagnosed with a brain tumor and had some pastors pray for him and put some holy water over his head and said he was healed. and then the next week he went to go get his monthly MRI scans and found out it was completley gone.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Posts: 2,126
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: thedudenj]
    #7077459 - 06/21/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
science isnt advanced enough to study astral projection or the invisble energy




Perhaps if science only took its lessons from 13 year old Wiccans on IRC channels about Dragonball-Z, it would have the answer to all of these problems.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7077545 - 06/21/07 09:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If you truly beleive youve been cured then your going to be healed.




Or sorely disappointed.

I refer again to an old method of determining the likelihood of truth:

Is it more reasonable, based upon our experiences and what we know of the world, to imaging that this extreme deviation from that pattern exists? Or is it more reasonable to believe that other factors, such as misdiagnosis, deception, and error were responsible?

The degree to which one is more reasonable than the other, according to our experiences, determines the extent to which it may reasonably be considered true. Anything else is error or a matter of unreasoned faith, rather than rational judgment.

In the case of your friend (or was it a friend of a friend? Friend of a friend's friend? Someone a friend saw on television?), I say it is far more likely that he, you, or I have been deceived whether by error or deliberate misrepresentation at some point down the chain of events.

This is why people should demand excellent proof of an extraordinary event. Of course, they do not demand that kind of proof, because stories of extraordinary and impossible events add hope and mystery to people's lives. I don't want to seem like a one-trick pony, but I think I can make this into a macro or shortcut and use it to respond to 70% of the posts on this forum. In no such case is any evidence forthcoming, and as such by no means should some stranger--who has probably in turn been fooled by another stranger--be believed.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Astral projecting [Re: Diploid]
    #7077594 - 06/21/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
... or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Tooth Fairy, or even Santa Clause, for that matter. :rolleyes:




Science will never be advanced enough to study The Santa Clause. It is the one of the most potent concentrations of sap and mediocrity that have ever been put to film.

P.S.: It also made it so no one ever remembers how to spell "Claus" anymore. An additional point against.


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