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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Re: Mazatec Indians [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6398806 -

so far, bluemeanie, that is consistent with what Peter has said. the first type in your post, friscosa, is closer to cyanescens than anything else, they grow near cyanescens and sometimes among them. The only problem there is that I've heard some places, like the recent fair, make a disticntion between between this
http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/composites/Friscosa
and this
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/auweia/IMG_0441-1.jpg



saying that one is friscosa and the other is cyclone?..I personally think both those are the same type, but different subspecies. I don't think people are going to be able to find much of a difference between those two under a microscope. I've said it before that as far as I'm concerned, their all cyanescens. But the problem is their shape is so different, many people have problems with it, so that's why we might need to call it something else. If nothing else, to say it's different in shape. Puffier is one word I can think of..They're puffier than cyans, like cheese puffs

In other words, saying they're all cyans is fine as long as the cyan definition is updated for hunters at the macroscopic level. Otherwise, that might be reason enough to call it a new species

Your second specimen, azure like, that's definately in it's own categeory, whatever it is, their pretty strong, stronger than cyans, and even the quality of the trip is different. That's the real oddball out here. Hopefully this year there can be more fresh specimens found. I haven't heard from Peter this year except for that one post here, so I dunno what's going on

Edited by auweia (12/23/06 08:09 AM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: tahoe]
    #6399745 -

today's finds:

P. spp ['friscosa']:



























Macrolepiota rachodes:




Stropharia ambigua:





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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: Mazatec Indians [Re: auweia]
    #6399874 -

Cool. So the first one I looked at was Ps.friscosa and the second one was something different??

Yeah the first one is Ps.cyanescens but without the capitate cystidia forms Ive sometimes seen - as you say a subspecies or variant - Id be interested in seeing what peter thought of comparing this mushroom to a type-collection of Ps.suaberuginosa or what Guzman called Ps.australiana/Ps.eucalypta - as this looks very similar to it as well. I havent had a look at bay area cyanescens for comparison, but Id reckon they would be the same.

Second one is nothing like the other specimen - and from what ive seen of it its most likely a new species.

Workman just posted another pic that he says IS Friscosa so now IM a little confused...


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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: canid]
    #6399941 -

here's one for ya from today. This species has a strain that splits open too, just like friscosas sometimes


Edited by auweia (12/23/06 05:55 PM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: auweia]
    #6400292 -

also, check this out. In terms of indicator species or same habitat as cyans, this has been mention before

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Clathrus_ruber.html

note the comments, woodchips, hypholoma...yep

you see this stinky Clathrus, you're getting warmer

and also, one neat looking one, just cause it looks psychedelic, even has cyan in the name

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Chromosera_cyanophylla.html

also of note, this one http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Conocybe_filaris.html

now, I see this one quite a bit around the cyan complex. Note the comments > Though seemingly distinctive, it belongs to species complex, members of which are distinguished largely by microscopic characters. The above description is based on a small number of local collections.

I'd say that was true of 'friscosa' too in some ways. But people are not usually messing around with the conocybes, but they are with the psilocybes (cyan complex/friscosa)

they do however, grow amongst each other sometimes, and here's one for ya....conocybe or psilocybe? (some conocybes don't have rings around the stipe)



normally, you should not need a microscope to be able to separate genera, but according to Mykoweb, a microscope might be needed to seperate some of these conocybes

It might be that way with 'friscosas' too, but if you can seperate the genera with the eye, you're probably OK...but even there it can get a little dicey

so what is it?...conocybe or psilocybe? Hint, it's the same patch as the last post in the cyanofriscosa thread...note the same date...same patch

kinda scary, huh?





Edited by auweia (12/23/06 08:32 PM)

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Re: Mazatec Indians [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6400514 -

Bay Area psilocybe cyanescens proper is very consistent with nearly worldwide specimens...it's these other types in the complex that are causing problems

we're just reporting this stuff here. I suppose we're all pretty much clueless here with these new variants.

all the more reason to stay on top of it, because it can happen in your hometown too someday

all those ones concretefeet posted above I can recognize as being active..I never even met the guy, but somehow I know, just from the photos

I've seen enough...I can tell if it's from around here, and that is from the4 Bay Area. I don't even have to ask him and I know.

I can't even tell you specifically why, it's just one of those things that's so close, it drives you nuts....But I've seen those before here


how does one explain it?...it's one of those things where nature has decided to throw us a curveball?

I know I would have been booted off this hub long ago if I was full of shit

bluemeanie said:
Cool. So the first one I looked at was Ps.friscosa and the second one was something different??

Yeah the first one is Ps.cyanescens but without the capitate cystidia forms Ive sometimes seen - as you say a subspecies or variant - Id be interested in seeing what peter thought of comparing this mushroom to a type-collection of Ps.suaberuginosa or what Guzman called Ps.australiana/Ps.eucalypta - as this looks very similar to it as well. I havent had a look at bay area cyanescens for comparison, but Id reckon they would be the same.

Second one is nothing like the other specimen - and from what ive seen of it its most likely a new species.

Workman just posted another pic that he says IS Friscosa so now IM a little confused...


Edited by auweia (12/23/06 09:30 PM)

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Re: Mazatec Indians [Re: auweia]
    #6400998 -

'all the more reason to stay on top of it, because it can happen in your hometown too someday'

Funny you should say that - Johnson and Buchanan suggest that it has (Ps.australiana, Ps.eucalpyta) are really only microscopically different from Ps.cyanescens.

Anyway, someone has offered to send me some specimens so Ill look forward to seeing them.
In the mean time, ask peter to examine the descriptions of Ps.australiana and Ps.eucalypta. He might find those interesting. Actually im sure he will.

'Bay Area psilocybe cyanescens proper is very consistent with nearly worldwide specimens...it's these other types in the complex that are causing problems'

Ps.cyanescens is a strange species all the same. Originally described in the United Kingdom without any pleurocystidia, later a species that looked identical to this was located in the united states and found to have lageniform to capitate pleurocystidia but it was assumed it was the same species.

Pluteus from this very site was able to map the DNA and do isozyme protein analysis to see whether these were indeed compatible - and although he went on 'holiday' before he could write this up, he found that the original UK variant of Ps.cyanescens was a different species to that in America, with Ps.subaeuginosa and allies somewhere in between.
All very confusing, but this is a pretty unstable critter - and perhaps as it has been suggested by Stamets and others, it may readily undergo the process of specification randomly - branching off into Ps.azurescens in one location (although this may not be the case), Ps.friscosa in your region and Ps.australiana/ps.eucalypta/ps.subaeruginosa in Australia.
I just wish Pluteus was around to map the whole thing. But I think Peter has bitten off one of the more contentious delineation issues in the Psilocybe family.
'


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Edited by Zen Peddler (12/24/06 12:52 AM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: canid]
    #6401147 -

concretefeet said:
Macrolepiota rachodes:





The previously classified Macrolepiota rachodes, has moved once more, and is found to be closer in relation to Chlorophyllum molybdites than any of the Lepiota species.  The new name for M. rachodes, is reluctantly, Chlorophyllum bruneum.

Here are a couple I found while in the Bay Area.  :smile:






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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: CureCat]
    #6401153 -

Who came up with that? Looks prety Lepiota-ish to me...


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Edited by Zen Peddler (12/24/06 02:30 AM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6401214 -

Hmmm.... upon digging deeper, it seems that C. brunneum and C. rachodes may be two seperate species, once believed to be the same species, and then seperating into two distinct species....  So I guess I'm a little behind on the classification!  :lol:

Here is a pdf file from the person(s) responsible for the classification of C. brunneum - (Farl. & Burt) Vellinga.  It is a key to Chlorophyllum and Macrolepiota in Australia (why Australia?  I don't know).
http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/~bruns/ftp/vellinga2003_aust.pdf


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Edited by CureCat (12/24/06 03:16 AM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: CureCat]
    #6401260 -

Maybe the guys thought they could get a free holiday to Australia by proposing to study them down here??? :wink: Kinda weird that its Australia though as you say.
When i used to go up to NSW on regular holidays we would see some MASSIVE chlorophyllum specimens - i know these guys get large, but these made dinner plates look small.


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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6401844 -

that's thanks to the molecular biologists taking over yet another genus and it's satalites. i'm sticking with the classic taxanomic tree for this family [as are many others] for the purpose of field/macroscopic identification/delineation. it's just more feasable that way.

what good would even a complete taxonomy to be if only 5% of hobbiests could wade through it?

i'm going to look into the new groupings aswell, but i don't see any point in my knowing them other than academic curiosity.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: canid]
    #6401920 -

I agree with concretefeet on alot of that. For hunters like me, I need to know if they're OK, That's more important than anything else. reclassifying is fine as long as us hunters now those same ones are still OK

actually, just one part of that I'm concerned a little...under the current definition of cyanofibrillosa they lose most of their potency on drying...if that was the case, i wouldn't even mess with them and I would say they're not even worth it

Edited by auweia (12/24/06 01:21 PM)

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: auweia]
    #6402431 -

Ah a patch came up in my yard, theres only five but im still anticpating more. They are cyanscenes and im drying them as we speak, its going to be my first time letting my friends eat them so it should be fun since they have never eaten wild cyans. On a side note does anyone wanna sell me a print? Its much easier since we live in the same area.

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: wireless]
    #6402494 -

id love to create a cyan lawn in my back yard. it would take work tho


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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: notapillow]
    #6403143 -

I scored huge on the cyans in the north bay today and huge on the fibs in the south bay near the airport by all the genetic companies this morning. Pics will come up later.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: tahoe]
    #6403247 -

Hey everybody, for the past week or so I've been going on my first few hunts, haven't found any actives yet but it's still good fun and keeps me occupied while I wait for my jars to finish colonizing. Maybe someone could identify a couple of my finds if they can and have the time? I could probably identify a couple myself but I've been pretty busy lately.

I went on my very first hunt about two weeks ago. Took a hike around a hilly county park near where I live. It's a pretty "natural" area and I've heard that actives like cyans and fibs grow primarily in woodchipped areas that are man-made so that might attribute a little to why I didn't find much of anything. Anyway, here are some pics of what I did find:









This next one is pretty cool:








I went back about a week later with my dad. He's not a psychonaut (or hasn't been since his college days at MIT) but he loves looking at fungus and going on hikes so we had a lot of fun hunting together.









When I saw this one I was like, "Oh! Cyan!" But I looked at it a little closer and didn't notice any bluing... :c




I think these little white guys:


Turn into these when they get older... gallerinas?:


The day after I was in San Francisco and I took a look down at GGP to see what I could find.













Finally, that same night I spent the night at my family's cabin up in the hills... the next day I went looking around and found a few things growing in the wet grass:





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RogerRabbit said:
Don't assault your mycelium with peroxide.  That's like throwing acid in your girlfriends face just to see if it sizzles.

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: goodolgoogy]
    #6403296 -

nice photos....you're definitely going out there and looking and it looks like generally in the right habitat. None look like cyans tho, but one day you should find some if you keep it up like that :smile:

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: auweia]
    #6403379 -

A couple of questions:
Pretty new to this... but finding lots of specimens... (not actives, yet).
1. Have people had better luck finding actives in the north bay on hills (i.e. headlands) or in the valleys?
2. Do cyans always stain blue? Is this a reliable method of sorting them out from look alikes?
Thanks and happy hunting!

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Re: Official Fall 2006 Winter 2007 San Francisco, Bay Area Thread. Post your finds here! [Re: blueshaman]
    #6403714 -

im going to SF tomorrow on the train and was wondering if this would be a good time to go? if not when? thanks

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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