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 Jared Stranger  Registered: 04/22/01 Posts: 8,783 |
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Does telepathy exist.. can people talk to each other with their brains? Some argue its impossible, some argue they can do it, some say prove it, some say you cant...
Personally.. I've bounced around in my views.. from telepathy is valid, back to thinking it ties in with all the other tin-foil-helmet speak, back to thinking I even expressed some telepathic qualities... I think the idea that telepathy exists is quite valid.. It suggests that through the use of a "6th sense" we are able to send/receive a certain wave or vibration of energy.. Our ears can perceive sound through any object, given that the energy is powerful enough... Why not some other yet unknown energy? Why couldn't humans be taking a step upwards in evolution? Why couldn't we be developing a new sense for an energy which we have no mechanical means of detecting.. or of definatly perceiving with out minds.. as readily as light, sound, or heat.. If an organism existed which had the organic means to send and receive radio waves, the ability to tune the frequency so that it could choose the receiving organism.. would that not be telepathy? Just because we figured out what chemicals and elements to combine in a certain pattern and manner, electronically, to send and receive these frequencies of energies, does that change what these organisms had before? Or does it just unshroud the mystery which we previously did not understand.... Sorry if this was just a big ball of incomprehensible jibberish.. but when ya gotta jibber, ya gotta jibber.
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Anonymous |
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i've experienced it so i can say that, yes, it exists...
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 geokills ∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙    Registered: 05/08/01 Posts: 25,047 Loc: city of angels Last seen: 7 hours, 31 minutes |
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i hear ya... i believe i've experienced telapathy, or maybe it was just great luck but everything i was thinking was being told to me by the person i was with at the time, right in front of me.
-------------------- 
-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥  ╥π╬...
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Swami Eggshell Walker  Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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If it exists at all, it appears that no one can control when or where it happens, else someone would claim Randi's $1,000,000. All the theorizing in the world means nothing. Actions speak quite loudly.
There is a great deal of apparent telepathy due to two quirks of the human psyche. 1. We are highly programmed for pattern recognition. We find patterns where there are none (The Mars' Face for example.) Don't believe me? Put the TV or radio on a channel that is all static or run a loud fan. Listen carefully to any white noise source and you will hear faint voices in the background where there are none. Your brain will take in the vibrations and try to make words out of the random sound. 2. Selective memory. This is where you only remember moments that have significance to you. For example: You are at home thinking about a special friend and then he / she calls. "Wow! I was just thinking about you. How amazing!" Of course, you forget the 100 other people that you thought about who didn't call or all the times you thought about your lover and he/she did not call. -------------------- 
The proof is in the pudding.
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mr crisper .  Registered: 07/24/00 Posts: 928 |
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"If it exists at all, it appears that no one can control when or where it happens, else someone would claim Randi's $1,000,000."
nice point swami. if one subscribes to the theory that we are evolving beings. it could follow that, perhaps we, or at least most of us, are simply not ready to have such an ability. i'd abuse it, no worries!
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Anonymous |
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Telepathy occurs in the subconscious. Not everyone is consciously aware of what is going on in their subconscious a lot of time. It is those moments when we take a look deep inside that we are able to recognize this function that is always occuring. Swami's main argument is that we should be able to prove it. Well, once someone resides completely in the subconscious, this should be no problem. But for now, almost everyone on Earth spends most of their time in the conscious mind. Most people only fully slip into the subconscious during that period called "sleep". Some people have trained themselves to enter the subconscious at will, sort of by "flipping off the switch" of the conscious. This does not mean that you go to sleep, the subconscious mind is where all information and memories are stored. The conscious mind is a part of our awareness that allows us to associate with and interact with the material world. However the conscious mind gets all its information from the subconscious, it has a "tap root" that goes into the subconscious which feeds stimuli to it, and the subconscious responds with previous memories or feelings and feeds them back up to the conscious. That is how the brain works when you deal with any situation involving the conscious. The conscious mind cannot act alone.
Imagine your consciousness, or awareness of self, as a little ball of light. Now imagine the brain, the top half being the conscious mind, and the bottom half being the subconscious. When we are awake, that little ball of light spends most of its time in the top half, or conscious part of the brain. It is completely unaware of what is going on beneath it. Now when you go to sleep, the conscious does not exist. That ball of light drops into the subconscious, with no awareness of the conscious. It is all relative to where your awareness spends its time. Now there are people who train to send their awareness into the conscious and subconscious at the same time.. that is.. the ball of light is halfway in the conscious, and halfway in the subconscious. It is aware of both aspects at the same time. It knows what is going on in both of them. These are the people who would be able to prove telepathy exists, as they would be able to observe the telepathic communication occuring in the subconscious, and bring it up to the conscious unchanged and relay it to the material world, consciously. All telepathy is, is direct mind to mind communication. Waves of energy vibrating at a certain frequency that hold the capability to store an infinite amount of information. One only has to tune their mind into this frequency, to send and recieve these waves of energy.
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Tannis ZoneTrooper Registered: 12/13/01 Posts: 508 Loc: MD.USA Last seen: 23 years, 30 days |
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Obviously, anyone who has read a few of my posts knows that I'm a believer......but a problem arises.....
Different people have different ideas of what telepathy is..... I don't see it as mind control. I understand it as "mind to mind" interaction.......while psychokenesis is "mind to matter" interaction. Some people (myself included) are more sensitive to telepathy occurring and interpret its signals more clearly. To some it is just static that makes them tired, others shut it out. Issac Bonowits wrote in "Real Magic" about how the presence of a skeptic, can shut down all other psychic activity. Even in the bible when Jesus returned to his home town, it was said that, he could do no great works there......because of their unbelief. In short, an unbeliever or a skeptic, can piss in our sandbox and make it impossible or nearly impossible for any ability like this to work. Just as the skeptic warns the masses about those of us who "believe"......sensitive ones.....beware the skeptic! They can generate great amounts of psychic energy unknowingly and can stop healing, or even produce sickness or depression. Most, know nothing of what they do, since they believe that these abilities do not exist. Their unrestrained energy can be like a sharp weapon, wounding or in much rarer cases killing those within (psychic) reach! Can telepathy exist? Sure. I just recently posted about a friend who confessed to being unjustly angry with me. I shocked her when I responded that it was not one time, but three separate times the week before, and then gave her the exact days and times when she had been angry with me. I think this is a good example of telepathy, but this is not something that grows well under the scientific eye...... In short even questioning the existance of telepathy, could be enough "mental energy" to make it an impossibility. Because of this, the battle between skeptic and believer will rage on. The skeptic will caution about lack of proof, and logic, and the precarious position of being open to fraud. The believer will encourage, and say "only believe".........if you don't then it won't work. I believe that all people produce a "mental energy" but not all people do this consciously. Thoughts, in my experience and opinion, don't just exist "in our heads" but are like radio waves that "go somewhere". Some people just broadcast. Others focus in and send a message to a specific location. Some learn this, others just kind of have a nack for it...... Some are good at it, some are bad, and some are like sharp shooters....... The other thing about telepathy and "other psychic abilities" is that many of these things don't just "happen" in the instant when the message is sent. They often manifest at around three days. Why? Why does Wicca speak of a three fold return? I don't know. That is just what I have often noticed, especially with telepathy. Maybe there is some cosmic significance to this.....but it is a mystery to me. But lets be practical.....if I want to get a message to someone, I send them an email.......but if I want to break down someone's defensiveness who is in danger and needs help but is resistant to this.....I use telepathy. This has unpredictable results though and you must "will" to protect the receiver. As an example, lets say I have someone who is suicidal with drugs, and they are in denial of their problem. First, I talk to them. If they are resistant, we increase the frequency of our talks. If this doesn't work, I send thoughts and protection toward them and ask them to receive this. Many times these people will suddenly take a turn for the worse and will get into some trouble. This trouble will often be the turning point where the person stops being in denial and recognizes their problem. In short, I push them to a location where they are willing to see their problem and do something about it. I can not force them to accept my thoughts. This process could also be called prayer....... Most people don't understant the three fold return either. Whatever you send out, comes back to you. This is not the same as karma. If you send out a thought to destroy another, and this thought is rejected by the receiver, it will snap back at you with increased force. If you have been sucessful in forming a nice projectile for the receiver, then get ready for the hit on yourself if the person rejects the thought. What makes telepathy effective? Repetition, and constantly holding and sending out the thought. What's the best defense against "mind control"? Recognize the thought, reject the thought, and then stand firm. Within three days it will return to the sender. (This works with other psychic activities as well.....). Senders beware!!!!!!!!! This is not a game to be played. Those who toy with these things often get exhausted, depressed, and some end up dead......I have witnessed this. Most suffer depression or bizzare series of accidents. But, yes, I have experienced telepathy in ways too numerous to post here........be safe........Tannis.......
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Anonymous |
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The other thing about telepathy and "other psychic abilities" is that many of these things don't just "happen" in the instant when the message is sent. They often manifest at around three days. Why? Why does Wicca speak of a three fold return? I don't know. That is just what I have often noticed, especially with telepathy. Maybe there is some cosmic significance to this.....but it is a mystery to me.
I think I can answer this. This time delay is a natural occurence in the 3rd dimension. It is the same with karma and many other things. A person may unwittingly harm someone else without ever realizing what they did, only to have the realization hit them at a later time. Thoughts manifest reality. That is a universal fact, but in the 3rd dimension, there is a slight time delay. This delay does not effect everything in this dimension obviously, but it does effect many things dealing with energies and frequencies. Only in the 4th dimension and above is this time delay obsolete. Telepathy is generally instantaneous, but as it is not widely practiced in the 3rd dimension, and due to the time delay, many times in our reality it is not instant. The same rule applies for Karma, or the Universal law of balancing.. what comes around goes around. Or, for the scientists... every action has an equal and opposite reaction. A person may cause serious harm to someone without ever feeling the effects come back to them. Only to find that perhaps later in their life or even in the next life does their karmic debt come back around for them to balance. This leaves many people wondering what they did to deserve something that happened to them, because they are unable to connect the two events as there is a large delay in time. In the 4th density and above, the rule is instant karma. Any action or effect you have on someone else or your environment comes back to you at that very same moment. There can be no ignorance about what you do effecting your reality. You get to see the consequences of your actions immediately. There is actually a very rational explanation for all of this. That is the frequency or vibration of sub-atomic particles. In the 3rd density, that vibration is 9,000-12,000 times per second. All things physical in the 3rd density vibrate somewhere in that frequency range. In the 4th density, the frequency is higher.. 12,000-15,000 times per second. A good analogy would be the speed of sound in open air compared to the speed of sound underwater.
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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Issac Bonowits wrote in "Real Magic" about how the presence of a skeptic, can shut down all other psychic activity.
Of course he wrote that. False mystics (are there any other kind?) hate for a well-reasoned person to be present. This statement is so nonsensical that I can hardly believe that you posted it. I cannot leviate. Never could, never will. But I state that I can only levitate in the presence of believers. Absolutely no one can challenge me with this amazingly pathetic form of circular reasoning. They can generate great amounts of psychic energy unknowingly and can stop healing... So skeptics are much, much more powerful than believers! You are way too funny. Frauds swim in this type of double-speak. Are their authentic telepaths? Who knows, because with this type of thinking, they are totally indistinguishable from charlatans. (For the thousandth time: see my signature quote!) --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Tannis ZoneTrooper Registered: 12/13/01 Posts: 508 Loc: MD.USA Last seen: 23 years, 30 days |
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Actually, I believe that skeptics are not more powerful, but they do generate a lot of mental energy.
I believe that everyone is "psychic" for lack of a better word......skeptics seem to "throw around" a lot of that energy, so much so that it can interfere with other more "delicate" activities. Saying a skeptic is more powerful is like saying that a wreaking ball is more powerful than a skilled surgeon. In a way that is true, but it disregards the delicate skill of what the surgeon and surgery can accomplish. Skepticism can completely wreak the conditions necessary for some of the finer, more delicate operations to take place. Its not more powerful, it can just be more destructive. Skeptics warn the masses about the dangers of believing, but believers also must be warned about the damage that a skeptic can do. If for no other reason.....so as not to waste time and energy on a person, or in an environment that will not produce the desired end results.
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Tannis ZoneTrooper Registered: 12/13/01 Posts: 508 Loc: MD.USA Last seen: 23 years, 30 days |
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That's totally cool and makes a lot of sense. What suggestions do you have for me to learn more about the 3rd and 4th dimensions? Any links?
Information that I have found is at best sketchy........I like to compare my experiences with those of others as well to get clarity. Thanks!!!!!!!!!
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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Saying a skeptic is more powerful is like saying that a wreaking ball is more powerful than a skilled surgeon.
Puh-lease! I (a skeptic) am a wrecking ball (certainly not wrecking lives like religious believers wars do) and Bin Ladin (a believer) is a skilled surgeon. Your analogy doesn't make the least bit of sense nor does it tie in; except as a way to denigrate someone who does not accept your viewpoint - the very same social faux pas you have accused me of! Skepticism can completely wreak the conditions necessary for some of the finer, more delicate operations to take place. Its not more powerful, it can just be more destructive. Uh, huh. Like the Filipino psychic surgeons who remove disease from humans in the form of chicken guts hidden in the hand. Do you accept 100% what everyone tells you? If so, you are a fool; if not you are a skeptic. but believers also must be warned about the damage that a skeptic can do As I have stated many times to deaf ears, real things work irregardless of belief. Get a primitive man in the room who does not believe in technology and my computer will still work (totally disproving your theory of skepticism making things fail). Only fraud, hoax, and misperception cannot stand up to the light of scrutiny. Any authentic phenomena will remain and not wither. Your discussion of the paranormal reminds me of a magician that can only do his trick if the audience closes their eyes. It only works around people who are easily fooled. --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous |
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Get a primitive man in the room who does not believe in technology and my computer will still work (totally disproving your theory of skepticism making things fail)
Umm.. you are comparing a computer (physical technology) to brain waves and psychic phenomenom?
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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I was comparing belief to belief. Belief is a mind-state and claimed to be the critical component.
Now you are saying the object is what's important. Hard to follow... --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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SoulTech Automated Registered: 02/27/02 Posts: 86 Last seen: 20 years, 24 days |
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The way I understand it is that when a subject is put in an environment of skeptics and non-believers he/she has a harder time creating paranormal activity.
I believe this to be so because I think a persons thoughts are a much more tangible thing than accepted by science at this time. If you subscribe to the Aether theory a persons thoughts or conciousness are vibrations of aether eminating from a person. When a person has negative skeptical thoughts about a subject performing paranormal activity, that subject has to work harder to overcome the negative vibes. Positive loving thoughts may cause the aether to vibrate faster while negative thoughts vibrate slower. "Rigorous studies of the phenomenon of psychokinesis were conducted in the former Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia, later reported on in the unclassified Defense Intelligence Agency's Soviet and Czechoslovakian Parapsychology Research (U), by Mr. Louis F. Maire III and Major J.D. LaMoth, MSC, published September 1975. " One such study was conducted on Nina Kulagina who, according to the document, was able to move objects through psychokenisis. "Furthermore, Kulagina's experiments with PK clearly demonstrate that the amount of love or sympathetic vibrations in the room had a noticeable effect on her results - skeptical, tense atmospheres created much more energetic stress on her than calm and relaxed, supportive situations. " http://ascension2000.com/Converg There is some other neat information in there if you get a chance to read it. Maybe its a posibility, maybe not. Peace. 
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Anonymous |
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I didn't say the object is what is important. If you are going to make analogies like that you need to keep things in context. I was saying the computer is going to work regardless of who is in the room because it is a machine. Now if you brought a person or machine into that room that was emitting some sort of disrupting electromagnetic signal don't you think that would effect the computer?
Put a magnet on a computer screen or TV and see what happens. Skeptics can cause as much disruptive energy as any magnet. A computer will not want to work if you cut off the power supply or pull out the motherboard, or if you fill the computer with a virus or fill the hard drive with performance hindering programs. Likewise a psychic will not perform as well with a skeptic in the room who emits a very negative energy. As I have said many times in the past, psychic abilities are greatly increased or hindered depending on their mood, or their thoughts. Psychic abilities are at their peak when the person is confident in their abilities, is relaxed, and letting things flow freely. Psychic abilities are greatly hindered or even stopped when the person is feeling anxious, stressed, under pressure to perform, and several other factors, which being in the presence of a skeptic would quite likely effect them in such a way. If you don't believe in something you will probably never see it. When the settlers anchored their huge ship near the shore and brought rowboats onto the beach, the natives greeted them with awe, and asked them how they came across a great sea in such small rowboats. The settlers pointed at the great ship anchored within sight and said they had used that, but the natives did not see it. They could concieve of the small rowboats as they had used those themselves. But their reality did not include a massive ship complete with sails. Since they did not believe in the great ship, their consciousness removed it from their sight as that is a natural function of the ego... to simply block out something that threatens their view of reality.
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Anonymous |
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What about people who would like to believe something is true, but would like it proven as well? Would they be giving off bad signals also? In your example of a computer screen and a magnet, there is another possibility of an unmagnetized piece of iron which will not disrupt the image of a cathode ray tube (only if exposed to certain forces will it become magnetized and hence disruptive).
Not everyone who doesn't believe is committed to the idea that the phenomena you extol the virtues of don't exist. Non belief in something is not the same as believing it doesn't exist. An agnostic is not the same as an atheist. There are different kinds of skeptics. There are those who hold to scientific dogma and are just as resistant to change in their model of their universe as any religious fundamentalist. There is another class (who I believe to be a minority of the skeptics) who realize that human knowledge of the universe is still quite incomplete, but they are not ready to blindly believe any claim that comes along just because someone says it's so. They remain curious and hopeful, but want some validation. If telepathy and other paranormal phenomena do in fact exist, I would like to know about it. The explanations given so far makes it seem like you're using every excuse in the book as rationalizations, that perhaps you really don't believe what you say or you would rise to the challenge. I don't think this is what you intend, but this is the way it comes across and this can have an effect similar to magnetizing a piece of iron. If you think that your beliefs are valid, why can't you design a way of showing that they are valid instead of saying it can't be done because of one reason or another? I want to believe.
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Anonymous |
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I would love for it to be proven as much as anyone, I just don't think it would be as easy as a simple test. Just because I claim to have used telepathy does not mean I am fully aware of it and in control of it at all times. If I was, I would definetely rise to participate in such a test. Like anything, it requires patience and practice, it is a skill that must first be realized and harnessed to use its full potential. I think I have the first part down, I have realized that I can and have used it, but I have definetely not mastered it. One cannot sit down at a piano and play a Chopin song perfectly the first time.
I have absolutely no problem with open minded skeptics.. those who are willing to consider something could exist that has not yet been proven, and is open to it.. but still will not put full faith until it is proven. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. What does bother me is the skeptic attitude of, "This is completely false because it has not been proven and you are a fraud for thinking like that".. that is negative energy. One can be a skeptic without putting off a negative energy, by embracing the alleged claim and even wanting to believe it as you said, but not believing it until a personal experience happens with it, or it is proven through a test. A positive skeptic attitude does not hinder the abilities of a person, or even if it does, hinders MUCH less than a negative skeptic attitude. I consider that to be a healthy thing, a positive skeptic. Again, I don't claim to be the best telepath in the world. In fact I seem to be a better sender of telepathy than a reciever. I have had many experiences that prove TO ME that telepathy exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it is not something I am aware of or in control of at all times in my life. To prove something like that, it would have to be consistent at all time. For me, it seems to come and go, usually when I am feeling full of energy and grateful that I am alive and completely in touch with nature... I am very telepathic. I am very sensitive to other's telepathic messages, and able to recieve and send them with crystal clarity. But a lot of the time I am not full of energy, perhaps a bit depressed, and out of touch with nature. During these times I can barely even concieve of telepathy. I have enough trouble listening to my own thoughts at those times. If it appears like I am trying to avoid giving a clear answer, that is not what I am trying to do at all. I would love probably more than anyone for me or anyone to be able to prove that telepathy exists to the scientific community. However I think the key thing here is consistency, and hardly anyone is consistent all the time. These are mental abilities we are talking about here, mental abilities that not many people are aware of, and take a lot of practice to get used to. We are not talking about forces of nature or the laws of physics which are easily tested. It gets even more difficult when these abilities are not accepted by most people, and even discouraged. If everyone kept an open mind about it and was willing to accept that these things could in fact exist, without spouting their negativity all over that person, I think that would help greatly in proving the process exists. Think of it this way... when a teacher or parent constantly tells their child that they are stupid or do horrible in school. 95% of the time that child will act stupid or purposely do bad in school because subconsciously they want that parent or teacher to be right. Likewise, if a parent treats their child with respect, and love, and constantly gives them kind words such as "You can do it, I believe in you", "You are a smart boy and I'm proud of you", that child will most likely behave better and do much better in school, and will likely show their intelligence more. This is psychology we are talking about here. Show support for the team, and that will boost their confidence, which will improve their performance. Tell the team they are doomed to failure because they are a bunch of no good losers, and see how well they perform then.
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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Think of it this way... when a teacher or parent constantly tells their child that they are stupid or do horrible in school. 95% of the time that child will act stupid or purposely do bad in school because subconsciously they want that parent or teacher to be right.
A true statement, but invalid analogy. If telepathy exists, is still follows some set of as yet unknown rules like everything else in the universe. The impressionability of children is not even remotley realted to these alleged powers. ...hardly anyone is consistent... [regarding telepathy] Around and around the mulberry bush we go. If someone scores significantly above chance on Monday and significantly below chance on Tuesday, then on Monday they were "in tune" and "full of energy"; on Tuesday, they were tired and not focused. Net result: chance. A difference that makes no difference - blah, blah, blah. To prove something like that, it would have to be consistent at all time. Another false statement. Even partial telepathy should be easily demonstrable as the results will be ABOVE chance if it exists. I have yet to see any research scientist ask for 100%. you are a fraud for thinking like that If you were referring to my comments, I said that it is impossible to tell an authentic psychic from a fraud using the believer's logic. If I misunderstood, please point out the flaw in my assessment! --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Tannis ZoneTrooper Registered: 12/13/01 Posts: 508 Loc: MD.USA Last seen: 23 years, 30 days |
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You're taking my post too personally.
I didn't say you were a wreaking ball, I said that skepticism has the force of a wreaking ball in its power, and that this kind of force can disrupt the conditions necessary for more delicate operations of psychic abilities to work. I cautioned in my posts not only about the skeptic, but also about blindly trusting the "supposed psychic". I've clearly stated that there is danger, and that operations of this nature can't be proven by logic......many remain unexplained. My information about how the skeptic can affect these operations comes from personal experience and from reading books ( which you simply disreguarded, stating that the author intentional set out to prove skeptics wrong....but you probably have not read his works). So I'm a skeptic or a fool, huh.......so much for your posts NOT being a personal attack... I like the analogy about the primative man and the computer, but it doesn't fit the situation I'm speaking of. Skepticism, is a powerful energetic force that is projected outward. I have personally found that it can prevent the conditions necessary for other operations to function. Belief is a powerful factor in the equation, but there are other things involved. The rest of your post is again the arguement that unless I play by your rules and accept your logic then I am completely wrong. This is pointless, since you seem to just be interested in debunking what you don't understand. The other side of this coin being that if I am in the very least right, and you are claiming to be a "skeptic" then maybe you have some responsibility about using your energy wisely. As I've said before, I think that you have a lot to offer everyone here, and that your cautions are in many cases warrented. Anything of a mystical nature does have its dangers. If you chose to call yourself a skeptic, or whatever......I wish you peace. For me, I like my world a bit of a magical place, and I'm not the mindless fool that your posts tend to insinuate that I am. I just chose to believe, as opposed to not believing. I would not be nearly so far along in life as I am now if had required "scientific proof" for everything along the way. In fact my health would be very poor had I taken the scientific evidence to heart when the doctor gave me the news. I'm sorry that you don't find my examples and experience helpful, but maybe others do.........
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