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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487170 -

People can also percieve others perceptions (or what seems very close to unless there is some misunderstanding) through normal methods of communication, no?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487172 -

Quote:
Not the same energy that is detected by MRI machines and such.


Source?
What exactly is the energy we detect during problem solving, then?

Holding a materialist stance for perception, I can't imagine you're going to win arguing against a material base for thought. Unless we don't perceive thought, in which case this whole thread was a waste of time when arguing that anothers thoughts cannot be perceived, because it would then out of necessity have to operate on a different system anyways!


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11487181 -

Grapefruit said:
I could make up an absolute ton of ways that communication between minds without the senses could operate which you cannot prove wrong.

1. There is an astral plane...

Prove it.



Grapefruit said:
...and such a thing as mind which is seperate to the brain but communicates with it and other minds on the spiritual plane.

What the fuck is the "spiritual plane"? :what:



Grapefruit said:
2. Brains can communicate by sending information over Shupenbertokal waves...

:lol:, WTF are "Shupenbertokal waves"?



Grapefruit said:
...that bypass physical barriers sending information into other brains unconscious.

I love how you have absolutely no proof for this theory. :heartpump:



Grapefruit said:
3. Brains can communicate through special Glopal birds...

WTF are "Glopal birds"? :wtf:



Grapefruit said:
...that take in information by sensing it in vocal patterns that whisper Bullshitengal sound...

What is "Bullshitengal sound"? :holyshit:


Grapefruit said:
...inaudible to the conscious mind and undetectable to man made machines that conveys perceptions of other humans by maniupulating frequencies that make perceptions move into the same patterns as others perceptions of other humans.

See where I'm going with this...?

Sort of, but I don't see how this is going to prove that each animal can only perceive its own perceptions.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/15/12 05:27 PM)

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487189 -

I'm not trying to prove any of that bullshit I just made up. Just saying you can't disprove it.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11487197 -

shivas.wisdom said:
You are assuming that this is a materialistic existence, when this is not necessarily the case.

What about idealism?
What about dualism?
What about pluralism?


I'm sorry, I assumed you knew these philosophies.

A materialistic worldview implies everything is physical matter.
An idealistic worldview implies everything is mind (mental thought).
A dualistic worldview implies some stuff is matter, other stuff is mind.
A pluralistic worldview implies a plurality of substances that make up the universe.


As you can see, only with materialism can it be assumed that perception arises from the physical brain. For the other three (and these three do not represent the only conflicting philosophies) this is not necessarily the case- and you have not proven that perception is generated by the brain.


--------------------

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Kickle]
    #11487208 -

Grapefruit said:
People can also percieve others perceptions (or what seems very close to unless there is some misunderstanding) through normal methods of communication, no?

No.

Can you feel my heart beating? :heartpump:



Kickle said:
Quote:
Not the same energy that is detected by MRI machines and such.


Source?
What exactly is the energy we detect during problem solving, then?

I'm not at all saying that the energy that is detectable by modern technology is not in any way connected with thoughts; obviously, since there is no technology available today that can read peoples' minds, whatever modern technology can detect is necessarily something other than thoughts.



Kickle said:
Holding a materialist stance for perception, I can't imagine you're going to win arguing against a material base for thought.

Neither can I, and that's not what I'm arguing.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11487227 -

shivas.wisdom said:
...and you have not proven that perception is generated by the brain.

I don't need to prove it--science has already done that for me, and I'm not going to search around for a whole bunch of scientific articles that explain this in detail because you can do that on your own.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487247 -

Poid said:
shivas.wisdom said:
...and you have not proven that perception is generated by the brain.

I don't need to prove it--science has already done that for me, and I'm not going to search around for a whole bunch of scientific articles that explain this in detail because you can do that on your own.


And if you believe this, than there is no further point in discussing other than to point out that this is not proven. At all.


--------------------

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11487257 -

You're the one who is trying to disprove modern scientific thought; if you give up this easily, then maybe you're wrong. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487264 -

Then what are you arguing?
If thoughts are energy, they have the potential to be detected, just as any other source of energy.
If a human brain detected this energy, it would have a way of interpreting this energy, as all external energy that is detected by the brain does. The only way for this to occur, is to use what the brain already has. If the brain already has all the neural wiring for thought, why would it not just interpret outside thought using that very same wiring? External thought energy being interpreted as external thought.

It's entirely possible, but we have no empirical evidence for it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487269 -

Just because I can't feel yor heart beating doesn't mean I can't percieve some of your perceptions. Like your perceptions. For instance if somebody made a statement and then thoroughly explained their position to me I would be able to percieve that in a very similar way and it is possible this would be the exact same way.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Kickle]
    #11487288 -

Kickle said:
If thoughts are energy, they have the potential to be detected, just as any other source of energy.

If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.



Kickle said:
If a human brain detected this energy, it would have a way of interpreting this energy, as all external energy that is detected by the brain does. The only way for this to occur, is to use what the brain already has. If the brain already has all the neural wiring for thought, why would it not just interpret outside thought using that very same wiring? External thought energy being interpreted as external thought.

If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.

Therefore, telepathy is impossible. :craven:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11487301 -

Grapefruit said:
Just because I can't feel yor heart beating doesn't mean I can't percieve some of your perceptions.

You can only perceive your own perceptions; when you're fucking a girl, and you both climax together, whose orgasm do you feel? :strokebeard:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487326 -

Poid said:
You're the one who is trying to disprove modern scientific thought; if you give up this easily, then maybe you're wrong. :shrug:


Oh really? if materialism has been proven and verified beyond a doubt I would be very interested in reading about this.
So instead of me wasting time trying to disprove (or trying to show you it is not necessarily true) what is already proven true, why don't you link me to a scientific, peer-reviewed article or study verifying your claims. I would be most appreciative, as this knowledge seems to have avoided me thus far.


--------------------

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487344 -

Physical perceptions, I agree. Conceptual perceptions you are simply wrong as I said:

Quote:
For instance if somebody made a statement and then thoroughly explained their position to me I would be able to percieve that in a very similar way and it is possible this would be the exact same way.


That's similar and possibly exactly. Depeding on the concept and the depth of explanation and a luck factor.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11487374 -

Such as with mathematical concepts.


--------------------

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Poid]
    #11487386 -

Poid said:
If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.

Therefore, telepathy is impossible. :craven:


Say what?
That's the weirdest definition of telepathy I have ever heard.

If a human perceives another's thoughts, they are not using telepathy, they are.... ???
For all intents and purposes, telepathy as is generally understood, not some Poidified version, is theoretically possible.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11487392 -

Perfect example, thankyou.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Kickle]
    #11487454 -

Kickle said:
Poid said:
If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.

Therefore, telepathy is impossible. :craven:


Say what?
That's the weirdest definition of telepathy I have ever heard.

If a human perceives another's thoughts, they are not using telepathy, they are.... ???
For all intents and purposes, telepathy as is generally understood, not some Poidified version, is theoretically possible.


:thumbup:

You don't need to be something to perceive it, I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Why should percieving a perception necessitate being that same perception? It only necessitates emulation.  Your point simply makes no sense.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Legitimate Telepathic Powers are Physically Impossible [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11487514 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Poid said:
You're the one who is trying to disprove modern scientific thought; if you give up this easily, then maybe you're wrong. :shrug:


Oh really? if materialism has been proven and verified beyond a doubt I would be very interested in reading about this.
So instead of me wasting time trying to disprove (or trying to show you it is not necessarily true) what is already proven true, why don't you link me to a scientific, peer-reviewed article or study verifying your claims. I would be most appreciative, as this knowledge seems to have avoided me thus far.

I don't think anything can be known for certain, but so far, modern science contends pretty much the same thing that I'm contending here. :shrug:



Kickle said:
Poid said:
If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.

Therefore, telepathy is impossible. :craven:


Say what?
That's the weirdest definition of telepathy I have ever heard.

I already quoted Wikipedia's article on telepathy, and what I typed there in no way contradicts it. :shrug:



Kickle said:
If a human perceives another's thoughts, they are not using telepathy, they are.... ???
For all intents and purposes, telepathy as is generally understood, not some Poidified version, is theoretically possible.

Did you read the Wikipedia article?



Grapefruit said:
Kickle said:
Poid said:
If a human somehow detects another person's thoughts, it would still be that human's own perception.

Therefore, telepathy is impossible. :craven:


Say what?
That's the weirdest definition of telepathy I have ever heard.

If a human perceives another's thoughts, they are not using telepathy, they are.... ???
For all intents and purposes, telepathy as is generally understood, not some Poidified version, is theoretically possible.


:thumbup:

You don't need to be something to perceive it, I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I'd agree that's pretty stupid, and that's not what I'm asserting. In order to perceive another organism's perceptions, you need to be that organism; this is different from needing to be something in order to perceive that said something.



Grapefruit said:
Why should percieving a perception necessitate being that same perception?

It only necessitates that you are literally perceiving a perception.



Grapefruit said:
It only necessitates emulation.  Your point simply makes no sense.

I've already been over this point; even if the brain states of two different humans are exactly identical, it would still be each human's individual perception.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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