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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4713797 - 09/26/05 01:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: Good post!

ID stands on equal footing with Christianity, Judaism, Islam and all other religions. Adherents of ID claim that is more "scientific" and the name attracts people who don't believe in one of the other classical religions but are on a search for some form of religion. Scientology does they same, in a total different way, but they also claim to be "scientific".

ID is the same as all other religions.

There is one question I would like to ask a very smart Christians, like our prime minister: Do you agree that if god does exist, he is a very evil guy and he hates us? Why is there so much suffering in the world? Why are people depressed? Why are there wars? Why the fuck don't we live in a world of pure ecstasy, full time and for everybody?


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Annom]
    #4713810 - 09/26/05 01:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

maybe it is for the full experience and not just an ignorant bliss?


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4713842 - 09/26/05 01:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

- Desert Toads: There are desert toads that bury themselves under the dry ground in the desert, go in hibernation mode and wait (sometimes) years for rain. Then they "wake up", reproduce in 2 days and go back in hibernation mode for another x years. Intelligent design  :tongue:  :wink:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Annom]
    #4713849 - 09/26/05 01:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Do you agree that if god does exist, he is a very evil guy and he hates us? Why is there so much suffering in the world? Why are people depressed? Why are there wars? Why the fuck don't we live in a world of pure ecstasy, full time and for everybody?

I am nor god or prrime-minister, but for sure he gave live for love.
He lets us experience all that shit, because he loves us so much.

That sounds incredible crazy, but start thinking !


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4713857 - 09/26/05 01:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Snip said:
maybe it is for the full experience and not just an ignorant bliss?




Full experience? Like being raped, tortured and murdered? Well done god!


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4713859 - 09/26/05 01:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If so, why doesn't God just create us with the 'experience' pre-imposed a la Total Recall rather than have us actually suffer so. Or is He satisfying some kind of sadistic bent with our creation?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Annom]
    #4713894 - 09/26/05 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Quote:

Snip said:
maybe it is for the full experience and not just an ignorant bliss?




Full experience? Like being raped, tortured and murdered? Well done god!




i am not trying to attach positive/negative connotations to it. it is what it is. good point though


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4713901 - 09/26/05 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

of course, interpreting fractals as intelligent is an easy mistake.
a smart result does not necessarily indicate that there was a plan in advance.

probably the smartest design for an intelligent creature is an amoeba.
completely pseudopodal - th most dreamy and flexible thing.

but once we got to the worm stage in our dark evolutionary past we were headed into smart tubular "basis" that leads to bilaterally symetrical creatures - the tube is most important because it sucks.

then it blows.

after we got sucking and blowing down pat, we learned to make these faces at eachother thus we have the darndest basis for of intelligent society imagineable.

I am calling it basis not blueprint and not design.
it is very natural for one thing to emerge from another on this basis.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4713906 - 09/26/05 01:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Do you agree that if god does exist, he is a very evil guy and he hates us? Why is there so much suffering in the world? Why are people depressed? Why are there wars? Why the fuck don't we live in a world of pure ecstasy, full time and for everybody?

I am nor god or prrime-minister, but for sure he gave live for love.
He lets us experience all that shit, because he loves us so much.

That sounds incredible crazy, but start thinking !




My life is good, I love it and I'm very happy to live. But I'm not the least happy person on this world if I look around me. Why do I have a more happy life than some others. Or do you think we all equally love/are happy with our lives at the moment we die? Is he discriminating?


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4713955 - 09/26/05 02:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If so, why doesn't God just create us with the 'experience' pre-imposed a la Total Recall rather than have us actually suffer so. Or is He satisfying some kind of sadistic bent with our creation?




it may be more fruitful if you cease to ask 'why isn't is this way' and ask 'why is it this way'.
if we were just pre-imposed with the experience we wouldn't actually be experiencing it would we?

:smile:


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4713975 - 09/26/05 02:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

for the record, i am not a believer of 'intelligent design'.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4714002 - 09/26/05 02:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

it may be more fruitful if you cease to ask 'why isn't is this way' and ask 'why is it this way'

Alright, but I think you'll prefer me in the other mode:

Why did God make it such that both humans and animals suffer so much?

I'm reminded at this point of an excerpt from an essay I read some time ago:

I do not understand where this "beauty" and "harmony" are supposed to be found. Throughout the animal kingdom, animals ruthlessly prey upon each other. Most of them are either cruelly killed by other animals or slowly die of hunger. For my part, I am unable to see any great beauty or harmony in the tapeworm. Let it not be said that this creature is sent as a punishment for our sins, for it is more prevalent among animals than among humans. -- Bertrand Russel

Maybe there's another answer to my question, but the only one I can find is that God is a sadistic asshole (or incompetent engineer). Either that, or the universe just is what it is and was not designed.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4714018 - 09/26/05 02:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

if we were just pre-imposed with the experience we wouldn't actually be experiencing it would we?

But an omnipotent God could make is so pre-imposing the experience caused us to have experienced it without actually suffering the experience. If God can't do that, then he can't be the designer because the designer of the universe determines what is and what is not possible during the Functional Requirements phase of the project.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4714076 - 09/26/05 02:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

although i think your partly being humorous, the idea that the human design is "stupid" is itself ludicrous. Sure we have a few seeming flaws... but if a few flaws = stupidity, then what about the billions of insanely complex and unbelievably intricate mechanisms and processes that allow us to laugh, love, dance, paint, operate computers, share complex ideas, verbalize, build, dream and design?

All im saying is if you take unnescesary apendix to equal stupid design

than it goes without saying that opposable thumbs, vocal chords, and a functioning neo cortex and insanely complex nervous system equals transcendentally ingenius design.

Im not saying god made us, and im not saying he didnt. Im just saying that your list of "flaws" is completely inconsequential when compared with a list of our infinite capacites, possibilities and abilities.

Every day i am astounded by the seeminly unlimited number of things i can do. I can dance, play hackey sack, paint a picture, make myself a sandwhich, philosophize on the meaning of my life, reminice on my past or anticipate my future, i can admire a growing tree or plant my own, i can fuck and frolic ...

Hehe... yeah. very stupid, inefectual bodies indeed.


:smirk:


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4714077 - 09/26/05 02:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i do not know why humans and animals suffer so much, but if God exists within the context of which we speak, what makes you think that you can understand his reasonings for such things?

i do see that your conclusions are somewhat valid.


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OfflineSnip
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4714088 - 09/26/05 02:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

But an omnipotent God could make is so pre-imposing the experience caused us to have experienced it without actually suffering the experience.




Yes, but that is not his intent.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4714144 - 09/26/05 02:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

what the heck mite as well post this in a new thread


Edited by Moonshoe (09/26/05 02:47 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Annom]
    #4714148 - 09/26/05 02:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Is he discriminating?
As I think, sure, as every soul gets that what it has to learn, yet, in that incarnation-period.
In general, suffering and pain show us, about the cruel possibilities, that are real within the 'matrix of existence' and which are not to be wanted to be...

edit:and they show us much about the WHY.... If they did not exist, they could show us >nothing<....


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (09/26/05 02:55 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4714260 - 09/26/05 03:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

All im saying is if you take unnescesary apendix to equal stupid design

than it goes without saying that opposable thumbs, vocal chords, and a functioning neo cortex and insanely complex nervous system equals transcendentally ingenius design.


Or the universe simply IS and had no designer. The rest can be explained by natural selection. The apendix and wisdom teeth have been on the selected way out for some time, and this is happening to church people and atheists alike.

Hehe... yeah. very stupid, inefectual bodies indeed

Yeah, get back to me when you develop arthritis and lose your sex drive.  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Snip]
    #4714281 - 09/26/05 03:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, but that is not his intent

Alright then, what is his intent?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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