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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Deviate]
    #4727531 - 09/28/05 10:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It differs from creationism because it doesn't go into discussion about Adam and Eve, God creating the Earth in 7 days, etc. But it still says that life is too complex to have occured by Darwinism, and therefore an intelligent designer must have designed it.


Intelligent Design (or ID) is the controversial assertion that certain features of the universe and of living things exhibit the characteristics of a product resulting from an intelligent cause or agent, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Though publicly most ID advocates state that their focus is on detecting evidence of design in nature, without regard to who or what the designer might be, in statements to their constituents and supporters nearly all state explicitly that they believe the designer to be the Christian God.

Adherents of ID claim it stands on equal footing with the current scientific theories regarding the origin of life and the origin of the universe [1]. This claim has not been accepted by the scientific community and intelligent design does not constitute a research program within the science of biology. Despite ID sometimes being referred to popularly and in the media as "Intelligent Design Theory", it is not recognized as a scientific theory and has been categorized by the mainstream scientific community as creationist pseudoscience. The National Academy of Sciences has said that Intelligent Design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because their claims cannot be tested by experiment and propose no new hypotheses of their own [2]. Critics argue that ID proponents find gaps within current evolutionary theory and fill them in with speculative beliefs, and that ID in this context may ultimately amount to the "God of the gaps" [3].

The Intelligent design movement is an organized campaign to promote ID arguments in the public sphere, primarily in the United States. The movement claims ID exposes the limitations of scientific orthodoxy, and of the secular philosophy of Naturalism. ID movement proponents allege that science, by relying upon naturalism, demands an adoption of a naturalistic philosophy that dismisses out of hand any explanation that contains a supernatural cause. Phillip E. Johnson, considered the father of the intelligent design movement and its unofficial spokesman stated that the goal of intelligent design is to cast creationism as a scientific concept:

* "Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools."[19]
* "This isn't really, and never has been a debate about science. It's about religion and philosophy."[20]
* "So the question is: "How to win?" That?s when I began to develop what you now see full-fledged in the "wedge" strategy: "Stick with the most important thing" ?the mechanism and the building up of information. Get the Bible and the Book of Genesis out of the debate because you do not want to raise the so-called Bible-science dichotomy. Phrase the argument in such a way that you can get it heard in the secular academy and in a way that tends to unify the religious dissenters. That means concentrating on, "Do you need a Creator to do the creating, or can nature do it on its own?" and refusing to get sidetracked onto other issues, which people are always trying to do."[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Ravus]
    #4727609 - 09/28/05 11:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yes but does it say that darwinism does not occur or simply that life is too complex to have resulted from darwinism alone?


Edited by Deviate (09/28/05 11:06 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Ravus]
    #4727610 - 09/28/05 11:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
There is no evolution! There's only intelligent design! Otherwise, evolution and intelligent design wouldn't be discussed as separate issues, would they? The advocates for intelligent design are saying intelligent design is a realistic alternative to evolution, not the cause of evolution.



Actually, many of the ID crowd claim that they don't refute evolution, but simply say that evolution alone cannot explain certain complexities, and that such complexities would require intelligent design to come about. This is, of course, completely bullshit, but that's the argument.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Silversoul]
    #4727620 - 09/28/05 11:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Have you tried getting a person from the ID crowd to admit that we evolved from monkies?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Ravus]
    #4727629 - 09/28/05 11:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Have you tried getting a person from the ID crowd to admit that we evolved from monkies?



I've seen someone from that crowd on the Daily Show, and he basically said what I just said. He didn't mention anything about monkeys specifically, but his assertion was that he did not oppose evolution altogether.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Silversoul]
    #4727654 - 09/28/05 11:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

From my experience, the proponents of Intelligent Design usually do not accept that humans are primates who evolved from monkies (or in more correct terms, more primitive hominoids, but who cares?). I'm sure there are some "scientists" of Intelligent Design who would want to combine the ideas of evolution and ID, but if that was the case for the school system why would ID be called an alternative to evolution? For even the ID crowd blatantly calls it an alternative to evolution, and not an explanation for evolution.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Ravus]
    #4727736 - 09/28/05 11:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

as far as i know ID does believe that humans evolved from more primitive primates and i have met ID proponents who believed this. as for why its considered an alternative to evolution and not an explanation for evolution i don't know, maybe they are assuming the theory of evolution means only one thing, namely life is an accident and since they don't agree they think their idea is different from the theory of evolution.


Edited by Deviate (09/28/05 11:32 PM)


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4727939 - 09/28/05 11:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Didn't evolution design these 'stoopid' features?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineKingCactus
MesC ChAmP
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 134
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4728268 - 09/29/05 12:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i like my design..I dont want to be like anything else...if a person wants to bitch about how the human body is designed.....Get out more!! stop tripping so much! take on a hobby other then mycology! and look around at the world and ask yourself if you wish you come out another species.


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"everything written from this profile is fictional, I have no sources, nor am i a source for any type of illegal substance. This profile and post from this profile are for Entertainment purposes only. User of this profile takes no part in any type of illegal activities. This is all for sake of storytelling, to make the boring lives of some of us seem interesting.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4728558 - 09/29/05 01:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In general, suffering and pain show us, about the cruel possibilities, that are real within the 'matrix of existence' and which are not to be wanted to be...

A baby/fetus that dies during childbirth doesn't learn a damned thing about existence.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4728576 - 09/29/05 01:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, get back to me when you develop arthritis and lose your sex drive. 

You want me to get back to your right this instant?  :crazy2:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: KingCactus]
    #4730494 - 09/29/05 10:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)


i like my design..I dont want to be like anything else...if a person wants to bitch about how the human body is designed.....Get out more!! stop tripping so much! take on a hobby other then mycology! and look around at the world and ask yourself if you wish you come out another species.


I think you missed the point. The point isn't about self esteem, it's about the fact that the human body isn't perfect, and it isn't.

In fact, there are a wide variety of things on the human body that could be drastically improved with some simple design changes.

Did you know that humans suck at giving birth? Other primates are setup so that giving birth is pretty simple, they squat, and the baby comes out. They don't need help from anyone, and it's not common for the mother to die during childbirth.

Up until the 20th century, it was extremely common for women to die during childbirth and they needed help from others to do it.

Obviously the point isn't to mope around and complain that our bodies aren't perfect, it's to see that there are some design flaws that an intelligent designer should be able to pick up on easily.

Of course this whole argument can easily be discarded by claiming that God wanted us to be flawed for some damn reason.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Phluck]
    #4731128 - 09/29/05 01:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Of course this whole argument can easily be discarded by claiming that God wanted us to be flawed for some damn reason.




Of course, the whole concept of Intelligent Design can be discared by someone who feels they have the absolute view of what is and is not designed intelligently.

I, personally, hold to the concept of Design. Attaching "Intelligence" to Design is of no value or substance, as it is an abstraction that we have applied to the situation. A tree goes through its life cycle, standing forth from the soil and constantly interacting with the even more faceted system known as the atmosphere. That's Design, its a natural process, there isn't any conscious force necessary for that process to be undergone, there isn't any decision making happening. There is no difference from that than a human being designing a computer or manipulating its environment in other ways. Natural processes, Design.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4732289 - 09/29/05 04:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Did you know, the mother-cell is covered deep inside the womans womb ? It stays alive a whole life of the woman, or at least she is fertile.

Not sure what that means...

Human females produce all the eggs in their ovaries by around the time of their birth. The eggs mature (usually) one at a time on a roughly 28-day cycle.



primordial germ cell

Quote:

All eggs, that come out every new moon

It is not true that all women have their period on the new moon.

The period of egg releases from ovaries has nothing to do with the new moon. It is regulated by a chemical clock in the woman's body. The period of ovulation is ~28 days while the period from new moon to new moon is ~27.3 sidereal days. That's a 17 hour shift each month and an 8 day shift each year. This means that a woman's period can, and does, fall at varying times during the lunar cycle. The two are unrelated.

No offense, BC, but that such profound ignorance of elementary biology exists to this day should be a wake up call to those who want to dummy down our school science curriculum even more by introducing ID into biology classes.




Should I have said 'roughly' moon-cycle ?
As far, as a woman can influence her periodic bleeding to a specific amount of time, I thought you understood about what I spoke.

Quote:

are a copy o this root-cell

They are similar, but certainly not copies. If they were copies, then the mother would not contribute any genetic variation to the species, and this clearly is untrue.



Until u forget about mitosis, meiosis and the reconstructions after fertilisation...


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Stoopid Design [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4732600 - 09/29/05 06:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Should I have said 'roughly' moon-cycle?

If that's what you meant, that's what you should have said. I can't interpolate, I can only take meaning from what you wrote, not what you were thinking.

Quote:

All eggs, that come out every new moon



I thought you understood about what I spoke.

I understood what you wrote, nothing more.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Stoopid Design [Re: Diploid]
    #4735127 - 09/30/05 04:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Flatulence! :ass:

What the hell was the pneumatics engineer thinking! I mean, compared to the Designer of the universe, automotive engineers are clumsy at best and they've managed to design effective mufflers and emissions control systems.

Did the Designer outsource this item to a not-so-competent third-universe firm to keep costs down or what?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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