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Invisibleuber_aj
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
    #5501874 - 04/11/06 01:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by uber_aj

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OfflineTemptress
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
    #5502305 - 04/11/06 04:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

YAHWEH or the highway...


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i have less ego than you do!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
    #5502844 - 04/11/06 11:45 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
Opeth RULES!




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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5503043 - 04/11/06 01:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Deuteronomy is the most laughable book in the bible. I would like Markos to chime in because I want to know more about Deuteronomy.






I would refer to some clarification about the origin of Deuteronomy from J. S. Spong's Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism:
According to prevailing views, there are four strands of OT biblical narration: the Yahwist, the Elohist, the Deuteronomic and the Priestly. According to Spong:

In 621 B.C.E....a scroll of the law purporting to have been written by Moses was discovered in the temple (2 Kings 22:18)...This book called for the kind of religious reform the prophets had been calling for, and it rekindled a kind of national pride that helped to keep the soon-to-be conquered nation intact through the period of exile. The book was called the second (deutero) giving of the law (nomas) and came to be known as Deuteronomy. The Deuteronomic writers reflected a high spiritual monotheism: To Yahweh belonged the heavens, the earth, and all within them. God was both sublime and awesome. It was the deuteronomists who insisted that no image of God could be used in worship...Yet Yahweh was still a nationalistic deity in Deuteronomy, and here are found the seeds of divine pettiness in the service of a national deity that became so destructive later.

My own take is that as a "nationalistic deity," the 'theology' of Yahweh was completely tainted by such barbaric middle-eastern practices as we see today among some of the Muslim nations. As the Hebrews developed across time, the tribal nature of God expanded to become a universal deity. This process did not occur in isolation - the world changed around the Hebrew culture, and as it did so, and Hebrews were exiled and lived under the rule of other nations, their theocratic, deuteronomic laws were forcibly suppressed (fortunately!). Obviously, those rules cited in this thread are no longer practiced. It is unlikely (according to what I've read) that Moses (Mose means 'child' in Egyptian), actually wrote Deuteronomy, or any of the other Five Books of Moses (Pentateuch).

Some scholars even maintain that Mose[s] may well have been a completely mythological person. I am reading a book now called Moses and Akhenaton by Ahmed Osman, which sets out to prove that the heretic pharaoh Akhenaton, who forced Egypt to abandon its pantheon and worship One God (Aten), was the same person as Moses! The thesis says that Akhenaton was forced from the throne by popular demand, and was exiled, taking (yup) a band of Hebrew inhabitants along with him into the desert. Even Sigmund Freud in his book Moses and Monotheism stated that he believed Moses was an Egyptian. Moreover, the translation of Egyptian into Hebrew renders the Egyptian letter 't' into the Hebrew 'd,' and the Egyptian 'e' into the Hebrew 'o.'
Thus, the Egyption, One God 'Aten' can be seen as the Hebrew Name 'Adon' - as in Adonai [LORD] (and the same root as the deity Adonis). Ver-r-y interesting.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
    #5503138 - 04/11/06 01:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:

Right from the get go, its pretty bad. you have a God who creates the world in seven days. he creates man from the dust, woman from his rib. His only rule is that they dont eat from the Tree of Life, b/c he says they will die the same day they do. He also creats the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which they also cant eat. so not knowing right from wrong, the humans eat from the Tree of Life, only contrary to what god tells them, they dont die. then it really says that god fears that if they eat from the second tree, they will become gods like him, so he kicks them out of the garden he made for them.

shortly after, he gets mad b/c nobody likes him, and sends a flood to kill them all except for a family who do think hes cool.

when mankind unites, and begins to work together, he destroys their building, scatters them throughout the world, and confuses thier languages, b/c hes scared their tower will reach to his heavens.




Interesting post... I am not familiar with the rest of it but I'll interpret this....

First of all, I'm going to be a heretic and say there is no "God" so the story of Eden is a story of mankind BREAKING harmony with nature and pursuing knowledge. By labeling things as good and evil and developing their intellect, they sacrificed their connection to divinity and began living lives of "sin" .... which is to not say that they did anything wrong, or that they were real people... it's more to say that the second your mind stops thinking and labeling and judging, the more sane it is. In fact the NT says something akin to, however much you judge a man, God will judge you more.

The knowledge of good and evil is the knowledge that leads to persecutions and intolerance and judgment..... when in fact our divine nature is simply living in harmony with one another, with all the animals, with our fellow man..... not judging or labeling or overthinking things.

The tower of Babel, as portrayed by "Be here now" could be seen as man's attempts to reach God through technology, and failling miserably..... for example that book paints psychedelic use as the tower of Babel, you climb right up to the top but then you fall all the way back down when the drugs end. I do not take it to mean God does not want men uniting to find "him" (and I do not take it that there's a HIM.... I wager it is us who create God, and we are supposed to become little divine beings on our accord) it is that "God" does not want us ............ well you know what. I'm at a loss of words now. It would basically be like using psychedelics as sacrament but never learning how to get back to the tripped out mind on your own.... or using meditation machines to stay in samadhi forever..... or plugging into the matrix.

all good and well if it's a tool toward spirituality but you have to work on developing things yourself. Perhaps that is it...

the flood? Well..... again if you don't take the Bible literally it's not some God being a mass murderer, it is nature paying retribution against people for living out of harmony with their divine natures. We are seeing "floods" going on right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if that portion of the Bible applied to this current society tenfold...... if we lived in balance as in Eden we would not rape our land and resources and live in abject depravity (and we do live in abject depravity, especially in America.... a colloseum in every home!) there would be no need for flood.

I think of the song aenema as a pretty good illustration of the "flood" though .... I take that in metaphor too, learning to swim meaning learning to operate your consciousness, and the threats of impedning doom by the powers that be simply being propoganda to keep everyone "occupied" and "distracted"

the rest I can't comment on. The Bible does advocate a lot of ridiculous un-Godly stuff and really.... unless there is a deeper meaning to it, if you sat down and read it and it made sense on some sort of non-literal level..... I wouldn't say it's the best "holy" book out there.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
    #5503209 - 04/11/06 01:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"Well..... again if you don't take the Bible literally it's not some God being a mass murderer, it is nature paying retribution against people for living out of harmony with their divine natures."

Rewording/reworking the 'divine nature' here. I agree with you and would suggest reading scriptures non-literally, for sure, but God cannot be dispensed with so easily. The tribal deity YHVH with all the attendant anthropomorphizations of those Hebrews needs to be weeded out, but the Transcendental Mystery which is God needs to remain.

BTW, after 30+ years of reading BE HERE NOW, someone on the Shroomery pointed out to me the 'hidden' (dots not connected) 10 Sephira of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life on the tower page (only it is the Tarot's 'The Tower,' not the tower of Babel. Confusing perhaps because they use a Bible quote along with it).

Peace Out.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5503279 - 04/11/06 02:13 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Some scholars even maintain that Mose[s] may well have been a completely mythological person. I am reading a book now called Moses and Akhenaton by Ahmed Osman, which sets out to prove that the heretic pharaoh Akhenaton, who forced Egypt to abandon its pantheon and worship One God (Aten), was the same person as Moses! The thesis says that Akhenaton was forced from the throne by popular demand, and was exiled, taking (yup) a band of Hebrew inhabitants along with him into the desert. Even Sigmund Freud in his book Moses and Monotheism stated that he believed Moses was an Egyptian. Moreover, the translation of Egyptian into Hebrew renders the Egyptian letter 't' into the Hebrew 'd,' and the Egyptian 'e' into the Hebrew 'o.'
Thus, the Egyption, One God 'Aten' can be seen as the Hebrew 'Adon' - as in Adonai [LORD] (and the same root as the deity Adonis). Ver-r-y interesting.



I've heard the Akhenaten theory before, but it just doesn't match up with certain facts about his reign. There is no evidence that he was deposed, nor exiled. Furthermore, Akhenaten appears almost two centuries before the first archaeological and written evidence of Judaism and Israelite culture in Levant. However, I do find it plausible that Moses could have been a later follower of the heretical Atenist religion during the reign of Ramses the great, and I have no doubt that Atenism had a major influence on Judaism. It seems likely that Judaism was henotheistic prior to their exile in Egypt, and learned monotheism from Atenism.


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Edited by Paradigm (04/11/06 02:19 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Deviate]
    #5504336 - 04/11/06 06:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Hell, man, let's raise a bunch of opinions and not follow through by discussing them. Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.




Quote:

fireworks_god said:
A lot of people had a problem with his raising points and later not responding. So what? We don't have a responsiblity to follow through until everything is done to death. Perhaps his objective was already complete?




One would think that these are contradicting statements, eh? :smirk:

The second one asserts that we do not have the responsibility to do so, but the first one calls into question why we would make statements and not do so. The second one suggests to not get bent out of shape when someone does not, and the first one is part of a suggestion to follow through.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.




That's the point.

Perhaps leery's objective was complete. The fact that he was surprised that someone would question words he didn't feel he was presenting for discussion is why I made the suggestion to him that I did.

If he, from there, would not have followed through, I would have followed my own advice, said "so fucking what?", and would have moved on.

So, Deviate, what is your point? :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
    #5504730 - 04/11/06 08:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I like grabbing my testicles..

I always wonder where the phrase "tripping balls" came from..

..anything to do with this testicle grabbing? :P


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OfflineTemptress
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Gomp]
    #5504733 - 04/11/06 08:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i prefer tripping ovaries.  :mushroom2: :heart:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Silversoul]
    #5504855 - 04/11/06 08:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Makes me wonder about the Abrahamic so-called origin of worship of the ONE God, and the legend of the young Abraham smashing the idols in his father's shop. Kinda like the child of someone who owns 'Sacred Source' (www.sacredsource.com) who busts up all the inventory! What of the monotheism between Abraham and Moses? Your take seem more plausible, but perhaps after all Moses WAS an Egyptian. Hey, a prof at University of Tel Aviv suggested that if the Exodus account is truly mythological, the Israelis really do not have any 'historical' claim to Israel! Uh Oh. :mushroom cloud:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5504965 - 04/11/06 09:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The Bible itself indicates that Moses was an Egyptian prince(albeit adopted). Of course, it may very well be that the story of his adoption was added later in order to legitimize his influence on Judaism.


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Invisibleuber_aj
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no *DELETED* [Re: leery11]
    #5506124 - 04/12/06 01:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by uber_aj

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
    #5507219 - 04/12/06 11:25 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

regarding the first post, I have to say that I think it's a good idea to have the no-nut-grabbing rule on paper. Ladies take kicking the nuts a little too lightly... Next time a girl wants to hit a guy and the nuts, I'm gonna pull out a bible and be like "uh uh, girl! God says you get your hand cut off for that!"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Silversoul]
    #5507313 - 04/12/06 11:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
The Bible itself indicates that Moses was an Egyptian prince(albeit adopted). Of course, it may very well be that the story of his adoption was added later in order to legitimize his influence on Judaism.




Right. That hokey made-for-TV Moses movie that was on last night mentioned that the Hebrews mistrusted Moses; that he almost wasn't one of them. Well, raised as a son of Pharoah, as royalty relative to slaves...Of course, as Egyptologist Bob Brier (my former prof) told me back in 1974, there is no archeological evidence to support large scale enslavement of Hebrews during the reign of Ramses (or any other dynasty).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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