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 Temptress
Butterfly
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 Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no 
#5500354 - 04/10/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
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i have less ego than you do!
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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 Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
#5500392 - 04/10/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Deuteronomy is the most laughable book in the bible. I would like Markos to chime in because I want to know more about Deuteronomy.
My favorite passage from it is 22:1 (i think) which states that any man who is crushed in the stones (testicles) or whose member (penis) is crooked, shall not enter the Assembly of the Lord.
22:2 states "any man who is a bastard, or a bastard to the tenth generation, shall not enter the Assembly of the Lord".
Assembly of the Lord is interpreted in two way. One is that it means Heaven, while the other claims that it means the clergy, but the capitalization of the word Assembly in the bible raises questions regarding this.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: SneezingPenis]
#5500456 - 04/10/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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you have to take the good and disregard the bad.
i don't know if that means that bible isn't trustworthy or not, i've seen more sensible things from Taoists, for example...
but there's good stuff in there. what is your goal in pointing the obvious to us? Even most Christians would say that passage is by and large meaningless....... Jesus =/= old testament.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5500471 - 04/10/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im not bashing it, or the religion, I just find it interesting either way: either St. peter (no pun intended) is checking cock and balls for admission, or they checked your cock and balls before the inception into the priesthood.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5500478 - 04/10/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
but there's good stuff in there. what is your goal in pointing the obvious to us? Even most Christians would say that passage is by and large meaningless....... Jesus =/= old testament.
There are those, even in this forum, who proclaim that The Bible is THE Word Of God, and that God has ensured that his Word has been handed down through the generations with the exact meaning in tact.
Selecting tidbits and disregarding others is a direct violation of such an assertion. It is not for you to reason what of God' Word is to be followed and what is to be rejected, one's logic is inferior to God's Will.
Is it really that obvious to everyone, most notably among those whose faith stands by that book? The more subtle statement that is alluded to by posting that Scripture isn't nearly as obvious....
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
#5500598 - 04/10/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's actually mentioned in the NT not to persue every dot and tittle of the OT.
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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5500645 - 04/10/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Im not bashing it, or the religion, I just find it interesting either way: either St. peter (no pun intended) is checking cock and balls for admission, or they checked your cock and balls before the inception into the priesthood.
i was talking to Temptress lol.
St. Peter though, that is clever 
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fireworks_god said:
Quote:
leery11 said:
but there's good stuff in there. what is your goal in pointing the obvious to us? Even most Christians would say that passage is by and large meaningless....... Jesus =/= old testament.
There are those, even in this forum, who proclaim that The Bible is THE Word Of God, and that God has ensured that his Word has been handed down through the generations with the exact meaning in tact.
Selecting tidbits and disregarding others is a direct violation of such an assertion. It is not for you to reason what of God' Word is to be followed and what is to be rejected, one's logic is inferior to God's Will.
Is it really that obvious to everyone, most notably among those whose faith stands by that book? The more subtle statement that is alluded to by posting that Scripture isn't nearly as obvious....
Peace.
hmm if you're saying that to them it's not obvious then perhaps I agree....... what do you mean by "The more subtle statement that is alluded to by posting that Scripture isn't nearly as obvious" ?
I just don't think that the way to go about doing things is to sort of make fun of or attack their scriptures.... because first of all yes I see something very wrong with not getting into heaven because your package is one way or the other...... and these people who take the Bible literally need to decide which side they are on, the old testament side which has little to do with Jesus, or the new testament side which sort of rebukes all these things about owning slaves and cutting off women's hands, etc.
I mean.... they should think critically, yes, but I just don't see how this thread would do it. They'd just ignore it really.
I mean example.... for the most part Jesus does not encourage violence (and when he does it seems to be sort of him making a mockery of those who are violent, but I'm not sure becasue I don't know a lot about the Bible) .... and yet we have many Biblical passages which state things like, merry are those who dash their children against rocks.
So these people DO need to realize that there ARE contradictions.... which means they need to understand the contexts that these things are written in... but at the same time I don't think that just randomly quoting something, making it clear that you are opposed to the Bible.... is going to get them to engage in discussion.
and no it's not God's words, it's people's words. Inspired by God? I sure hope so.... or maybe I don't? The key understanding necessary is Jesus revised much of what is in the Bible, making it moot...... he denounces the whole eye for an eye thing, for example.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,955
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5500655 - 04/10/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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duderonomy is like monogamy with another dude
I am not surprise they go for the balls look what she's wearing.
bound to be camels nearby
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fresh313
journeyman
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
#5500721 - 04/10/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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does it say anything about what happens if shes a teabagger?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5500841 - 04/10/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
hmm if you're saying that to them it's not obvious then perhaps I agree.......
Well, then, who do you think the Scripture is being provided for? 
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what do you mean by "The more subtle statement that is alluded to by posting that Scripture isn't nearly as obvious" ?
It means that meanings that are implied that are not literally presented at face value are not as readily apparent to most as the literal interpretation that has been described as being obvious.
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I just don't think that the way to go about doing things is to sort of make fun of or attack their scriptures....
That's great. Who's making fun of or attacking their Scriptures? The original post simply posted the Scripture itself.
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and these people who take the Bible literally need to decide which side they are on, the old testament side which has little to do with Jesus, or the new testament side which sort of rebukes all these things about owning slaves and cutting off women's hands, etc.
What about aspects of The Old Testament that contradict other aspects of The Old Testament, or aspects of The New Testament which directly contradict other aspects of The New Testament, even among the gospels, which provide the most in-depth glance to the myth of Jesus?
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I mean.... they should think critically, yes, but I just don't see how this thread would do it. They'd just ignore it really.
Who here has stated that this thread was being proposed as the ultimate alarm for individuals to begin thinking critically?
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I mean example.... for the most part Jesus does not encourage violence (and when he does it seems to be sort of him making a mockery of those who are violent, but I'm not sure becasue I don't know a lot about the Bible) .... and yet we have many Biblical passages which state things like, merry are those who dash their children against rocks.
Ever dash a child agansit a rock? Mighty good fun, that. 
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So these people DO need to realize that there ARE contradictions....
I should certainly expect a few contradictions among a smorgasbord of assorted writings collected from several individuals that were strewn amongst periods of hundreds, if not thousands, of years, which were later translated, conglomerated, translated, translated, translated, translated by a political and military empire that extended its survival through religion.
Most of these fundamentalists that stick to literal translations of The Bible with a steadfast closed-mindedness have at least a few shards of logic painfully jabbed into their heels so that they will recognize that there ARE contradictions in The Bible.
These contradictions, of course, were implanted in The Bible by God to test their faith of Him.
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which means they need to understand the contexts that these things are written in...
It is extremely difficult to understand the context in which a writing that is that old is placed in. One present culture has enough trouble understanding the other present culture, as it stands. Understanding the context doesn't mean that the writing and its context have any merit, either.
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but at the same time I don't think that just randomly quoting something, making it clear that you are opposed to the Bible.... is going to get them to engage in discussion.
*re-reads first post*
Why yes... I see.... a quotation of a certain Scripture... and... that's it... 
Perhaps your eyes are privleged to perceive something that I cannot directly perceive? Is there, perhaps, a meta tag containing the intention and purpose of a thread? 
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and no it's not God's words, it's people's words.
Substantiate this unfounded claim. How do you know?
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Inspired by God? I sure hope so.... or maybe I don't? The key understanding necessary is Jesus revised much of what is in the Bible, making it moot...... he denounces the whole eye for an eye thing, for example.
The key point that should be understood by all is that another person has come along and denounced all of Jesus's teachings. Why is a mythological view of a collaborated archetype known to us as a man named Jesus the ultimate perspective of truth, or God?
Perhaps The Old Testament is the Word Of God, and The New Testament an act of Satan, devised to turn man from God? As long as we are endlessly speculating here, let us speculate some more! 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5501023 - 04/10/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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erghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
This "Temptress" has made a few such threads as these and I read between the lines that there may just be some sort of motive against the Bible and it's readers.
To the rest of your questions honestly I don't really feel like answering..... I'm just saying that I don't get this thread. What discussion is it supposed to bring? It's not going to lure out the devout literalists for a round of debate.... and the rest of the people that read it already realize that much of the Bible doesn't entirely make sense.
and ...... Jesus is an archetype of a divine human, boddhisattva, etc..... it's not just HIM... from my perspective. The rest of what you said, well.... who knows. I was just posting and typing. Perhaps if I keep posts shorter they will make more sense.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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fireworks_god
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5501113 - 04/10/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
This "Temptress" has made a few such threads as these and I read between the lines that there may just be some sort of motive against the Bible and it's readers.
In other words, you've speculated about motives, intentions, and purposes within a form of expression that can barely convey such. Its such nonsense that got Swami permabanned.
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To the rest of your questions honestly I don't really feel like answering..... I'm just saying that I don't get this thread.
Hell, man, let's raise a bunch of opinions and not follow through by discussing them. Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.
"I am God!"
"What makes you say that?"
"I don't feel like answering that."
Why not save us all the trouble?
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What discussion is it supposed to bring?
The discussion that inevitably results. Why, here it is!
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It's not going to lure out the devout literalists for a round of debate....
Perhaps you've misinterpreted the intention, then?  No sense in analyzing an entire thread through a pre/misconception that isn't substantiated.
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and the rest of the people that read it already realize that much of the Bible doesn't entirely make sense.
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and ...... Jesus is an archetype of a divine human, boddhisattva, etc..... it's not just HIM... from my perspective.
Please elaborate.
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The rest of what you said, well.... who knows. I was just posting and typing. Perhaps if I keep posts shorter they will make more sense.
Posting and less typing? How about thinking, then more/less posting and typing. If one's streams of thought are well processed, focused, and full of purpose, words will not be used unnecessarily and one will feel free to follow through with the discussion of the expressed thoughts. That is why we are all here, one must presume?
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5501178 - 04/10/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mmmmmmm I'm not saying that this person can't make these threads... but what point does it have? I don't really see this as anything but saying "hey look the Bible says silly things" and yes, it does......
so... do you disagree with that interpretation? I was just trying to post that, yes the Bible has flaws, but that doesn't take away from positive aspects of the text.
And I mean honestly the reason I didn't want to respond is that I was just free-typing and didn't expect for anything I said to be challenged... I don't know what to say really.
I think the Bible has both valuable and not so valuable teachings... I think that Jesus is a good role model to model onself after.... and I think that literalists will not enjoy reading a thread like this... that if one were to want to talk to them about inconsistencies in the Bible, one would present the thread in another manner.
But you are right in the sense that I did jump to conclusions......
Now....... elaborate on the Jesus archetype? Well I think that on a symbolic level (such as tripping, dreaming..... unconscious motives, etc....) Jesus is an archetype of a peacebringer.... one who accepts his karma, who spreads only peace and love, and who attains ascention through a sort of self-sacrifice of the "ego" ...... and I think that it is a useful archetype to identify with. We have warriors..... we have heros and villains.... we have the savior figure.
Jesus holds symbolic power, like a Buddha figure or the more aesthetically interesting Hindu Gods. But it's interesting to note that fundamentally he seemed to simply be a human, which to me indicates our inherent inner divinity. Of course a Christian could argue "he's the son of God" and "he's different" but .... I don't know. There are many interpreations. The only way to the father is THROUGH me...... Christ-consciousness... human evolution. We are supposed to be as he was, to attain what he did.
That is how it seems to me.
I'm open to discussion it's just that you tore holes in something that I wasn't really trying to present in the first place. Just random commentary, you know?
It seems like this person may have a vendetta against Christianity. I used to so I can somewhat relate. I was just trying to say "hey posting it like this won't be likely change any minds. The Bible says good things too"
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (04/10/06 08:10 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Posts: 4,587
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
#5501182 - 04/10/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Temptress said:
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
Sounds 'bout right to me!
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fireworks_god
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5501285 - 04/10/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
Mmmmmmm I'm not saying that this person can't make these threads... but what point does it have?
What point does it have? You repeatedly assert that it doesn't have one, but that doesn't mean that others cannot interpret differently. I see no reason to think that your perspective is the ultimate definition of what is.
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I don't really see this as anything but saying "hey look the Bible says silly things" and yes, it does......
Perhaps your conclusion reflects more about your own self and your ways of thinking than it does any sort of truth of why the post was made by someone else? All you have to take into consideration is the post itself, which is simply a quotation of the Bible, and perhaps some speculation stemming from other posts that the particular person has made, but that simply creates more speculation.
God forbid that the scripture was posted as an oppurtunity to discuss why it is that her hand should be cut off? Perhaps there was a moral lesson to be debated? Who knows?! The possibillities are endless, when you don't brazenly close oneself (and distract others) from them. 
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I was just trying to post that, yes the Bible has flaws, but that doesn't take away from positive aspects of the text.
You were also trying to post why it is that the other person posted. I think you are more capable of being accurate when you assert why you do things as compared to asserting why others do things.
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And I mean honestly the reason I didn't want to respond is that I was just free-typing and didn't expect for anything I said to be challenged... I don't know what to say really.
Well, if you don't know what to say, I would suggest taking the liberty of reading the rules of this forum. Maybe you thought you were in Mysticism, Religion, and Paranormal? People tend to use this forum to propose points of view and then to ensue in discourse with others concerning any/all aspects of that point of view.
The result? A lot of shared insight into points of view, from which more understanding, encompassing, truthful points of view can be constructed! Its important to realize this purpose before simply freely typing whatever happens to flow forth from an unfocused mind.
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I think the Bible has both valuable and not so valuable teachings... I think that Jesus is a good role model to model onself after....
Why do you think these thoughts? What has brought you to form such conclusions?
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and I think that literalists will not enjoy reading a thread like this...
Fuck 'em! If a thread isn't for a certain individual, then they can feel free to move on to the next post.
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that if one were to want to talk to them about inconsistencies in the Bible, one would present the thread in another manner.
And yet, here we are, with an idea presented in this thread in this manner. Maybe we could direct discussion into the ideas presented in this thread, instead of a hypothetical one.
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Jesus is an archetype of a peacebringer.... one who accepts his karma, who spreads only peace and love, and who attains ascention through a sort of self-sacrifice of the "ego" ...... and I think that it is a useful archetype to identify with. We have warriors..... we have heros and villains.... we have the savior figure.
Interesting.
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Jesus holds symbolic power, like a Buddha figure or the more aesthetically interesting Hindu Gods. But it's interesting to note that fundamentally he seemed to simply be a human
A human being? Its interesting that our name for ourself consists of a verb that means in a present tense, eh? 
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Of course a Christian could argue "he's the son of God" and "he's different" but .... I don't know.
As Markos has mentioned several times, the title "Son Of God" is something that was bestowed upon Jewish kings. Perhaps some read "son of God" too literally? 
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We are supposed to be as he was, to attain what he did.
We are to be as we be.
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I'm open to discussion it's just that you tore holes in something that I wasn't really trying to present in the first place. Just random commentary, you know?
An integral aspect of the nature of reality is that every act, thought, and state is a presentation, an expression of oneself, and of reality.
Everything in this forum is presented for discussion, with one exception (don't expect that exception to be enforced, though  )
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It seems like this person may have a vendetta against Christianity. I used to so I can somewhat relate. I was just trying to say "hey posting it like this won't be likely change any minds. The Bible says good things too"
It seemed like there could have been a wide variety of reasons why this person made this post, and I am just trying to say that jumping to quick assumptions concerning such is never a good idea, especially here. If nothing more, it could have been a test of how people would respond!
Teachers test, you know. You will not always recognize a teacher if you are still immersed in learning the lesson the teacher is teaching.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5501403 - 04/10/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
What point does it have? You repeatedly assert that it doesn't have one, but that doesn't mean that others cannot interpret differently. I see no reason to think that your perspective is the ultimate definition of what is.
well wait am I saying it doesn't have a point? I'm saying that the point is to poke a hole in scripture, or something therefore.
Now, this is also because I have seen several other threads similar to this by the same user that I draw these conclusions. I think it's fairly rational myself.
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Perhaps your conclusion reflects more about your own self and your ways of thinking than it does any sort of truth of why the post was made by someone else? All you have to take into consideration is the post itself, which is simply a quotation of the Bible, and perhaps some speculation stemming from other posts that the particular person has made, but that simply creates more speculation.
Well yes it does reflect me.... I'm in a phase where I'm not bashing on religions anymore so I thought I'd stand up for them (sort of) but I digress, click on the posters name, look at the threads. It's just something that jumps out as "vendetta against Christianity" to me.... or .... dogma/Bible at least.)
I thought I would comment! So what do YOU think this thread is about then? I think we can make assumptions about what threads are about and maintain some degree of accuracy. I do not see any cryptic messages here.
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God forbid that the scripture was posted as an oppurtunity to discuss why it is that her hand should be cut off? Perhaps there was a moral lesson to be debated? Who knows?! The possibillities are endless, when you don't brazenly close oneself (and distract others) from them.
Well there's a possibility that I am Jesus, and there is a possibility that my words are infallable. But you know what....I don't think it's very likely.
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Well, if you don't know what to say, I would suggest taking the liberty of reading the rules of this forum. Maybe you thought you were in Mysticism, Religion, and Paranormal? People tend to use this forum to propose points of view and then to ensue in discourse with others concerning any/all aspects of that point of view.
Well I don't see how what I am doing is any different than what anyone else is doing. I'm just posting what's on my head.
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Why do you think these thoughts? What has brought you to form such conclusions?
Well I have not spent time studying this book. I base them off my views that there are practical down to earth teachings by said figure Jesus..... and I think they are morally valuable given my moral philosophy which I have been constructing.
Can I answer why I think anything? I don't know that I can. Perhaps all thoughts are delusional, the sane mind is one free and silent. That mind is probably more informed than the thinking one.
Treat everyone correctly, never resort to violence. It's simple enough for me to say that there are, based upon these tenets, good teachings in the Bible. But has the Bible been used for good ? Would it be better if passages like the topic starter quoted had been omitted? Well..... the less inclinations of a wrathful and hateful God and the more inclinations of peace, I'd say, the better.
So what are you asking of me?
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Fuck 'em! If a thread isn't for a certain individual, then they can feel free to move on to the next post.
Well I would again state that this thread is vested in them and would not exist without them.
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We are to be as we be.
What if we aren't? What if we are to be as we are supposed to be? But are not necessarily driven toward it. What if each person has a pivotol point in their lives in which they can deviate from what they are supposed to be, into what they are not supposed to be....
What makes you think we are as we should be? If we are to follow how we are conditioned to be, then we may say "oh well, I became a bank robber.... that's how I should be." Is that so?
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If nothing more, it could have been a test of how people would respond!
well now that is indeed an interesting angle.
--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (04/10/06 09:03 PM)
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5501518 - 04/10/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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tooo.. mmannny... boooxxess...
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Deviate
newbie
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Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5501757 - 04/10/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hell, man, let's raise a bunch of opinions and not follow through by discussing them. Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.
i thought you saw no problem with people raising opinions and not following through:
Quote:
A lot of people had a problem with his raising points and later not responding. So what? We don't have a responsiblity to follow through until everything is done to death. Perhaps his objective was already complete?
perhaps leery11's objective was already complete, no?
Edited by Deviate (04/10/06 10:36 PM)
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Temptress
Butterfly
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Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: fireworks_god]
#5501788 - 04/10/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
We are to be as we be.
amen. 
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i have less ego than you do!
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Temptress
Butterfly
Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5501794 - 04/10/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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how is quoting ones philsopohy a bashing? if i weer to reiterate what model of reality / morality that you hold to be dear, would that alos be denigrating?
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i have less ego than you do!
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uber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no *DELETED* [Re: Deviate]
#5501874 - 04/10/06 11:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by uber_ajReason for deletion: .
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Temptress
Butterfly
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Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
#5502305 - 04/11/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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YAHWEH or the highway...
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i have less ego than you do!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension 
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
#5502844 - 04/11/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
uber_aj said:
Opeth RULES!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: SneezingPenis]
#5503043 - 04/11/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Deuteronomy is the most laughable book in the bible. I would like Markos to chime in because I want to know more about Deuteronomy.
I would refer to some clarification about the origin of Deuteronomy from J. S. Spong's Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism:
According to prevailing views, there are four strands of OT biblical narration: the Yahwist, the Elohist, the Deuteronomic and the Priestly. According to Spong:
In 621 B.C.E....a scroll of the law purporting to have been written by Moses was discovered in the temple (2 Kings 22:18)...This book called for the kind of religious reform the prophets had been calling for, and it rekindled a kind of national pride that helped to keep the soon-to-be conquered nation intact through the period of exile. The book was called the second (deutero) giving of the law (nomas) and came to be known as Deuteronomy. The Deuteronomic writers reflected a high spiritual monotheism: To Yahweh belonged the heavens, the earth, and all within them. God was both sublime and awesome. It was the deuteronomists who insisted that no image of God could be used in worship...Yet Yahweh was still a nationalistic deity in Deuteronomy, and here are found the seeds of divine pettiness in the service of a national deity that became so destructive later.
My own take is that as a "nationalistic deity," the 'theology' of Yahweh was completely tainted by such barbaric middle-eastern practices as we see today among some of the Muslim nations. As the Hebrews developed across time, the tribal nature of God expanded to become a universal deity. This process did not occur in isolation - the world changed around the Hebrew culture, and as it did so, and Hebrews were exiled and lived under the rule of other nations, their theocratic, deuteronomic laws were forcibly suppressed (fortunately!). Obviously, those rules cited in this thread are no longer practiced. It is unlikely (according to what I've read) that Moses (Mose means 'child' in Egyptian), actually wrote Deuteronomy, or any of the other Five Books of Moses (Pentateuch).
Some scholars even maintain that Mose[s] may well have been a completely mythological person. I am reading a book now called Moses and Akhenaton by Ahmed Osman, which sets out to prove that the heretic pharaoh Akhenaton, who forced Egypt to abandon its pantheon and worship One God (Aten), was the same person as Moses! The thesis says that Akhenaton was forced from the throne by popular demand, and was exiled, taking (yup) a band of Hebrew inhabitants along with him into the desert. Even Sigmund Freud in his book Moses and Monotheism stated that he believed Moses was an Egyptian. Moreover, the translation of Egyptian into Hebrew renders the Egyptian letter 't' into the Hebrew 'd,' and the Egyptian 'e' into the Hebrew 'o.'
Thus, the Egyption, One God 'Aten' can be seen as the Hebrew Name 'Adon' - as in Adonai [LORD] (and the same root as the deity Adonis). Ver-r-y interesting.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
#5503138 - 04/11/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
uber_aj said:
Right from the get go, its pretty bad. you have a God who creates the world in seven days. he creates man from the dust, woman from his rib. His only rule is that they dont eat from the Tree of Life, b/c he says they will die the same day they do. He also creats the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which they also cant eat. so not knowing right from wrong, the humans eat from the Tree of Life, only contrary to what god tells them, they dont die. then it really says that god fears that if they eat from the second tree, they will become gods like him, so he kicks them out of the garden he made for them.
shortly after, he gets mad b/c nobody likes him, and sends a flood to kill them all except for a family who do think hes cool.
when mankind unites, and begins to work together, he destroys their building, scatters them throughout the world, and confuses thier languages, b/c hes scared their tower will reach to his heavens.
Interesting post... I am not familiar with the rest of it but I'll interpret this....
First of all, I'm going to be a heretic and say there is no "God" so the story of Eden is a story of mankind BREAKING harmony with nature and pursuing knowledge. By labeling things as good and evil and developing their intellect, they sacrificed their connection to divinity and began living lives of "sin" .... which is to not say that they did anything wrong, or that they were real people... it's more to say that the second your mind stops thinking and labeling and judging, the more sane it is. In fact the NT says something akin to, however much you judge a man, God will judge you more.
The knowledge of good and evil is the knowledge that leads to persecutions and intolerance and judgment..... when in fact our divine nature is simply living in harmony with one another, with all the animals, with our fellow man..... not judging or labeling or overthinking things.
The tower of Babel, as portrayed by "Be here now" could be seen as man's attempts to reach God through technology, and failling miserably..... for example that book paints psychedelic use as the tower of Babel, you climb right up to the top but then you fall all the way back down when the drugs end. I do not take it to mean God does not want men uniting to find "him" (and I do not take it that there's a HIM.... I wager it is us who create God, and we are supposed to become little divine beings on our accord) it is that "God" does not want us ............ well you know what. I'm at a loss of words now. It would basically be like using psychedelics as sacrament but never learning how to get back to the tripped out mind on your own.... or using meditation machines to stay in samadhi forever..... or plugging into the matrix.
all good and well if it's a tool toward spirituality but you have to work on developing things yourself. Perhaps that is it...
the flood? Well..... again if you don't take the Bible literally it's not some God being a mass murderer, it is nature paying retribution against people for living out of harmony with their divine natures. We are seeing "floods" going on right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if that portion of the Bible applied to this current society tenfold...... if we lived in balance as in Eden we would not rape our land and resources and live in abject depravity (and we do live in abject depravity, especially in America.... a colloseum in every home!) there would be no need for flood.
I think of the song aenema as a pretty good illustration of the "flood" though .... I take that in metaphor too, learning to swim meaning learning to operate your consciousness, and the threats of impedning doom by the powers that be simply being propoganda to keep everyone "occupied" and "distracted"
the rest I can't comment on. The Bible does advocate a lot of ridiculous un-Godly stuff and really.... unless there is a deeper meaning to it, if you sat down and read it and it made sense on some sort of non-literal level..... I wouldn't say it's the best "holy" book out there.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: leery11]
#5503209 - 04/11/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Well..... again if you don't take the Bible literally it's not some God being a mass murderer, it is nature paying retribution against people for living out of harmony with their divine natures."
Rewording/reworking the 'divine nature' here. I agree with you and would suggest reading scriptures non-literally, for sure, but God cannot be dispensed with so easily. The tribal deity YHVH with all the attendant anthropomorphizations of those Hebrews needs to be weeded out, but the Transcendental Mystery which is God needs to remain.
BTW, after 30+ years of reading BE HERE NOW, someone on the Shroomery pointed out to me the 'hidden' (dots not connected) 10 Sephira of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life on the tower page (only it is the Tarot's 'The Tower,' not the tower of Babel. Confusing perhaps because they use a Bible quote along with it).
Peace Out.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Some scholars even maintain that Mose[s] may well have been a completely mythological person. I am reading a book now called Moses and Akhenaton by Ahmed Osman, which sets out to prove that the heretic pharaoh Akhenaton, who forced Egypt to abandon its pantheon and worship One God (Aten), was the same person as Moses! The thesis says that Akhenaton was forced from the throne by popular demand, and was exiled, taking (yup) a band of Hebrew inhabitants along with him into the desert. Even Sigmund Freud in his book Moses and Monotheism stated that he believed Moses was an Egyptian. Moreover, the translation of Egyptian into Hebrew renders the Egyptian letter 't' into the Hebrew 'd,' and the Egyptian 'e' into the Hebrew 'o.'
Thus, the Egyption, One God 'Aten' can be seen as the Hebrew 'Adon' - as in Adonai [LORD] (and the same root as the deity Adonis). Ver-r-y interesting.
I've heard the Akhenaten theory before, but it just doesn't match up with certain facts about his reign. There is no evidence that he was deposed, nor exiled. Furthermore, Akhenaten appears almost two centuries before the first archaeological and written evidence of Judaism and Israelite culture in Levant. However, I do find it plausible that Moses could have been a later follower of the heretical Atenist religion during the reign of Ramses the great, and I have no doubt that Atenism had a major influence on Judaism. It seems likely that Judaism was henotheistic prior to their exile in Egypt, and learned monotheism from Atenism.
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Edited by Paradigm (04/11/06 12:19 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Deviate]
#5504336 - 04/11/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Hell, man, let's raise a bunch of opinions and not follow through by discussing them. Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
A lot of people had a problem with his raising points and later not responding. So what? We don't have a responsiblity to follow through until everything is done to death. Perhaps his objective was already complete?
One would think that these are contradicting statements, eh?
The second one asserts that we do not have the responsibility to do so, but the first one calls into question why we would make statements and not do so. The second one suggests to not get bent out of shape when someone does not, and the first one is part of a suggestion to follow through.
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Opinions aren't valid in a discussion/debate forum when they are simply stated, without addressing points raised by others.
That's the point.
Perhaps leery's objective was complete. The fact that he was surprised that someone would question words he didn't feel he was presenting for discussion is why I made the suggestion to him that I did.
If he, from there, would not have followed through, I would have followed my own advice, said "so fucking what?", and would have moved on.
So, Deviate, what is your point?
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Temptress]
#5504730 - 04/11/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like grabbing my testicles..
I always wonder where the phrase "tripping balls" came from..
..anything to do with this testicle grabbing? :P
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Temptress
Butterfly
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Gomp]
#5504733 - 04/11/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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i prefer tripping ovaries. 
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i have less ego than you do!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Silversoul]
#5504855 - 04/11/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Makes me wonder about the Abrahamic so-called origin of worship of the ONE God, and the legend of the young Abraham smashing the idols in his father's shop. Kinda like the child of someone who owns 'Sacred Source' (www.sacredsource.com) who busts up all the inventory! What of the monotheism between Abraham and Moses? Your take seem more plausible, but perhaps after all Moses WAS an Egyptian. Hey, a prof at University of Tel Aviv suggested that if the Exodus account is truly mythological, the Israelis really do not have any 'historical' claim to Israel! Uh Oh. :mushroom cloud:
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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The Bible itself indicates that Moses was an Egyptian prince(albeit adopted). Of course, it may very well be that the story of his adoption was added later in order to legitimize his influence on Judaism.
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uber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no *DELETED* [Re: leery11]
#5506124 - 04/11/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by uber_ajReason for deletion: .
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: uber_aj]
#5507219 - 04/12/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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regarding the first post, I have to say that I think it's a good idea to have the no-nut-grabbing rule on paper. Ladies take kicking the nuts a little too lightly... Next time a girl wants to hit a guy and the nuts, I'm gonna pull out a bible and be like "uh uh, girl! God says you get your hand cut off for that!"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Bible sez testicle grabbing is a no-no [Re: Silversoul]
#5507313 - 04/12/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
The Bible itself indicates that Moses was an Egyptian prince(albeit adopted). Of course, it may very well be that the story of his adoption was added later in order to legitimize his influence on Judaism.
Right. That hokey made-for-TV Moses movie that was on last night mentioned that the Hebrews mistrusted Moses; that he almost wasn't one of them. Well, raised as a son of Pharoah, as royalty relative to slaves...Of course, as Egyptologist Bob Brier (my former prof) told me back in 1974, there is no archeological evidence to support large scale enslavement of Hebrews during the reign of Ramses (or any other dynasty).
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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