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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class
    #4505517 - 08/07/05 01:35 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Our president, the drooling moron, wants religion taught in science class:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usdesi054371665aug05,0,5384426.story?coll=ny-uspolitics-headlines

WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush invigorated proponents of teaching alternatives to evolution with remarks saying that schoolchildren should be taught about "intelligent design," a view of creation that promotes the idea that an unseen force is behind the development of humanity.

Although he said curriculum decisions should be made by local school districts, Bush told Texas newspaper reporters at the White House on Monday that intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution as competing theories.

"Both sides ought to be properly taught ... so people can understand what the debate is about," he said.

These comments drew sharp criticism from liberals, who said there is no scientific evidence to support intelligent design theory and no educational basis for teaching it.

Much of the scientific establishment contends intelligent design is not a tested scientific theory, but a cleverly marketed effort to introduce religious thinking to students.

But his remarks heartened conservatives who have been asking school boards and legislatures nationwide to teach students that there are gaps in the theory of evolution and explain that life's complexity is evidence of a guiding hand.

"With the president endorsing it, at the very least it makes Americans who have that position more respectable," said Gary Bauer, a Christian conservative leader who ran for president in the 2000 Republican primaries. " ... It's a view held by the majority of Americans."

John West of the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank supporting intelligent design, issued a statement saying Bush "is to be commended for defending free speech on evolution, and supporting the right of students to hear about different scientific views."

Opponents of intelligent design, which a Kansas professor once derided as "creationism in a cheap tuxedo," say there is no legitimate debate. They see the case as a political battle.

Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State said that Bush, in suggesting students hear two viewpoints, "doesn't understand that one is a religious viewpoint and one is a scientific viewpoint."


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4505593 - 08/07/05 01:49 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The public educational system has larger problems then that one to tackle.

You know, we have a new Bush Gremlin you can use now.  :butthead:

uh huh uh huh uh huh intellignet design is uh huh uh huh cool.
You said "bush". uh huh uh huh uh huh


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4505606 - 08/07/05 01:53 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

That's a Bush smiley? Looks like he's sporting an afro do.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4505612 - 08/07/05 01:54 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thats Butthead from Beavis and Butthead. never mind...........


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4505671 - 08/07/05 02:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Essentially there is nothing to teach about Intelligent Design. This goes back to one point I constantly harp on: when information is incomplete or unknown, then the gap is erroneously filled with a mystical explantion.

ID goes essentially like this: Cells or stars or whatever complex system, are too complicated to have arisen strictly through natural processes; therefore a supernatural process was involved.

ID is ALWAYS backward looking (ad hoc) and is never forward-looking. This is a bad sign. It doesn't explain anything and has no practical application whatsoever except to reinforce an unproven myth in some minds.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4505717 - 08/07/05 02:24 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"Our president, the drooling moron, wants religion taught in science class:"

Yeah that guy is an idiot....why need it be discussed further....that is all there really needs to be said.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Swami]
    #4506294 - 08/07/05 09:12 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Essentially there is nothing to teach about Intelligent Design. This goes back to one point I constantly harp on: when information is incomplete or unknown, then the gap is erroneously filled with a mystical explantion.





:thumbup:
Unfortunately, scientists and biologists explain the mechanisms of nature and life as just that; mechansims. They've fallen into their own dogma, which is to explain things by saying that there isn't any meaning to anything. That is as much as a belief as the belief that everything was designed by God or whatever.

We know so much to how the way things work, we are able to explain how beings reproduce, how haploid cells make diploid cells and vice versa. Look at the complexity of the meiose (sp?), how can this be nothing other than a simple mechanism? How can one say that none of it has any meaning? How can one say that nature doesn't have any intentions?

I believe that science and religion/mysticism will one day or the other have to merge into one.


--------------------


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Posts: 19,747
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4506397 - 08/07/05 10:29 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

intelligent design is not a tested scientific theory, but a cleverly marketed effort to introduce religious thinking to students.


The spin machine cranks out another gem. I just love the way they have spun "creationism" into "intelligent design". The choice of words when selling someone something are key.

Think about it, wouldn't you rather be intelligent than stupid? Wouldn't you rather have been designed by a team of God appointed MIT graduate engineers than something haphazardly created by just one God?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4506426 - 08/07/05 10:48 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, biology still has a big blind spot, and I see in which way Bush would like to fill it up. This could be a dangerous thing if his wish ever comes true, but the thing is, it is a blind spot that is open for anyone to fill up. Whatever Bush's decision conerning this will be, it will ultimately end up being only more propaganda.

This is something that each of us have to give our own meaning to. Lets not let someone else tell us and our kids what to believe in.

The best thing to do would be to at least mention to students that biology has a few blindspots, that Darwinism has a few contradictions, and that we only know things on the surface. I hated how in school, teachers would talk about things like if they got everything figured out already, like if all the questions have been answered. The only time a biology teacher said that there was still research to be done in one domain was with HIV and the search of a vaccination.


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4506452 - 08/07/05 10:58 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

i have nothing against it really. i mean, what does it take? 3 seconds to teach the whole thing? the teacher merely has to say

"an alternative theory is that god designed and created all living things."

job done. with just 3 seconds wasted, intelligent design has been tought, the crazy fundies have been satisfied, and actually biology education can continue.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: exclusive58]
    #4506469 - 08/07/05 11:06 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"The best thing to do would be to at least mention to students that biology has a few blindspots, that Darwinism has a few contradictions, and that we only know things on the surface."

The sad reality is that in classrooms creationism is already being taught in FAVOR of evolution, even though the teacher isn't supposed to. Some teachers continue to do so.

The formal allowance of "intelligent design" (creationism) will allow every state, county, and city to teach religion in a classroom. This is prohibited by the constitution (or soon to be used to be).


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: exclusive58]
    #4506547 - 08/07/05 11:56 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Unfortunately, scientists and biologists explain the mechanisms of nature and life as just that; mechansims. They've fallen into their own dogma, which is to explain things by saying that there isn't any meaning to anything. That is as much as a belief as the belief that everything was designed by God or whatever.




You mean, fortunately right? Science does what it is structured to do and nothing else. Leave the other stuff for the carrion birds.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4506584 - 08/07/05 12:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Our president, the drooling moron, wants religion taught in science class:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usdesi054371665aug05,0,5384426.story?coll=ny-uspolitics-headlines

WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush invigorated proponents of teaching alternatives to evolution with remarks saying that schoolchildren should be taught about "intelligent design," a view of creation that promotes the idea that an unseen force is behind the development of humanity.

Although he said curriculum decisions should be made by local school districts, Bush told Texas newspaper reporters at the White House on Monday that intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution as competing theories.

"Both sides ought to be properly taught ... so people can understand what the debate is about," he said.

These comments drew sharp criticism from liberals, who said there is no scientific evidence to support intelligent design theory and no educational basis for teaching it.

Much of the scientific establishment contends intelligent design is not a tested scientific theory, but a cleverly marketed effort to introduce religious thinking to students.

But his remarks heartened conservatives who have been asking school boards and legislatures nationwide to teach students that there are gaps in the theory of evolution and explain that life's complexity is evidence of a guiding hand.

"With the president endorsing it, at the very least it makes Americans who have that position more respectable," said Gary Bauer, a Christian conservative leader who ran for president in the 2000 Republican primaries. " ... It's a view held by the majority of Americans."

John West of the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank supporting intelligent design, issued a statement saying Bush "is to be commended for defending free speech on evolution, and supporting the right of students to hear about different scientific views."

Opponents of intelligent design, which a Kansas professor once derided as "creationism in a cheap tuxedo," say there is no legitimate debate. They see the case as a political battle.

Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State said that Bush, in suggesting students hear two viewpoints, "doesn't understand that one is a religious viewpoint and one is a scientific viewpoint."




Isn't that totalitarism if you are not taught the alternative theories?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4506593 - 08/07/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Isn't that totalitarism if you are not taught the alternative theories?




that's the problem. intelligent design is not a theory. no theory of intelligent design has ever been proposed. "god created stuff" is not a theory, its an unfounded statement. its certainly not biology.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: alsey]
    #4506614 - 08/07/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

why is that not a theory?
Many theories have been created with zero material leads and only logical thinking or mathematics.

For example. In biology in high school we were taught the theory of how life came into place, but we were also taught that life could have came to earth from space, in form of an asteroid or something, as an alternative theory. Such alternative theory does not have any evidence or leads, but it was taught only by logic of what is possible.

Intelligence is possible, act of creation of new breeds by genetic manipulation, or in theory genetic sequencing is possible, so why is it not possible that intelligence created life on earth?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4506624 - 08/07/05 12:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Good for our elected idiot - it is the only good thing he's proposed.

I don't know about your self-esteem, but I feel moderately intelligent and everything I look at speaks volumes about 'supergenious,' not supernature. Intelligence is built into life, and further into order itself which we humans can make sense of symbolically and mathematically (ever study the Periodic Table of the Elements?)

Intelligence IS! Tautological perhaps, but what are you trying to disclaim anyway, an 'Old-Bearded-Guy-in-the-Sky'?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinebuddhamind
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4506660 - 08/07/05 12:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Intelligent design should be taught in religion class, not biology.


--------------------
Last night I had a dream that we went to Disneyland,
Went on all the rides, didn't have to wait in line.
I drove you to your house where we stared up at the stars
I listened to your heartbeat as I held you in my arms


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: buddhamind]
    #4506691 - 08/07/05 01:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

if you keep it to religion class, you attach it to the image of christian god, and it stays forever in mysticism.

If life on earth was created by some intelligence, it must be detached from religion, and become the subject of science. How will we ever examine this intelligence, learn how it works, how it existes if we are to keep it in limits of religion?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4506701 - 08/07/05 01:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
why is that not a theory?
Many theories have been created with zero material leads and only logical thinking or mathematics.

For example. In biology in high school we were taught the theory of how life came into place, but we were also taught that life could have came to earth from space, in form of an asteroid or something, as an alternative theory. Such alternative theory does not have any evidence or leads, but it was taught only by logic of what is possible.

Intelligence is possible, act of creation of new breeds by genetic manipulation, or in theory genetic sequencing is possible, so why is it not possible that intelligence created life on earth?




Those theories are not theories in the scientific sense of the word. The theory of a scientist is based on pre-existing evidence, and hence leads to greater experimental design, which in the case of evolution has lead to evidence upon evidence in favor of that theory.

If you want to make a scientific study out of asteroids bringing all the animals to earth then ask yourself what knowledge, evidence, and observation of the current situation could result in such a theory being probable? If there is sufficient evidence to begin the testing, then the hard part begins. Dig in, and put on your science cap because you have A LOT to prove.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: looner2]
    #4506706 - 08/07/05 01:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

not animals, perhapse bacteria, which evolved into all of us


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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