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Language Skill and Intelligence
    #800721 -

I try to be as unbiased and nonjudgemental as I can, but sometimes when I see a post on here that is completely lacking in grammar, puncuation and spelling skills; I can't help but think "This person is STUPID!!!" It's really hard for me to give the time of day to a poster who does not seem to understand the usage of commas or periods, or who doesn't even know the difference between things like to and too, their and there, or which and witch.

I'm not talking about silly little mistakes or typos here. I'm talking about repeated and blatant mistakes that anybody who has passed the 8th grade should know not to make. I'm not saying that I am perfect or that we need be perfect on things like internet message boards, but I really do think that a person's command of language reflects a lot on their level of intelligence.

Because of this, I find it difficult to give even a second thought to what someone who has no language skill whatsoever might post on these boards; especially in this forum.

Does anyone else have similar feelings on this subject?


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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #800739 -

Well usually I rely on my intuition to follow some of the worst-written posts, but if that fails I just don't read it.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #800776 -

NEVER judge a book by its cover. Never judge anyone for that matter. Regardless of how a person speaks, or even how a person types. People CAN suprise you.
I admit, its hard to read a badly written post. I know this because i write them myself. But they say admitting your problem is the first step.

Einsteins teachers thought he had "down sydrome" (retarded). Especially in mathematics. Though, he turned out to be...well Einstein man! Einstein compiled some of the most brilliant notes and even came up with E = mc2.


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence *DELETED* [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #800799 -

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Draig]
    #800888 -

This post should be in OTD. I understand where you are coming from on this one, but you should really not judge others on their grammar etc. It all comes down to ones ideas and what they are trying to express, besides what does grammar or punctuation really have to do with anything, both are just silly things that humans created. Dont be too picky
Peace, Trev


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #800906 -

Do not confuse intelligence and wisdom


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #800970 -

choo kallin mee stoopid or sometin? kwit being a dick.. jus cuz i dont have the bestest punkswayshun or gramar dozent meen im not enlitend!! covers of boooks shudent be jugdged


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Sclorch]
    #800985 -

I recently found the ultimate truth regarding this subject. I don't give a shit. The information that is passed along here is just that...Information. I dont use proper spelling, and punctuation when I speak, but the same stuff gets across completely. I might be speaking out of my ass, but I used to care about this type of stuff, however, every day that passes I care less and less.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: thePatient]
    #801006 -

I don't feel that making this sort of judgement is merely "judging a book by it's cover" though. I really feel that a person's ability to clearly convey their thoughts through written words is a clear indication of their intelligence.

I'm not saying that if a person misspells a few words, I am not going to talk to them. But if I can't decipher what the hell a person is trying to say because they have no language skill whatsoever, I tend to conclude that they don't have much intelligence.

I'm not trying to be arrogant here or say that I am better than anyone else... I'm just saying that I think there's a big correlation between a person's command of language and their IQ.



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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801112 -

would somebody plese learn me an edumacation?

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801182 -

hmmm....
I've learned as much from those 'not-as-smart' than those 'smart'...
Most favoritely (sp), 'smart'asses.....
Ever hang with a retard?

if anything, intellect can serve to bind us...
assuredness in 'understanding' or of 'accumulated knowledge' can make it more difficult to flow dynamicly; like everything else seems to.

Sounds like an issue of conditioning...
You've been told from educators that intellectual strength (really approval) is merited from understanding their, there, and they're.

Ever hang with kids?
Yeah...if youthink you're caranium's cranked hard, and yer synapses blazing, chill with some toddlers and be humbled...
I've noticed a corelation between speedy thought and lack' o baggage...
Explicitly though, there's more to this thinkin' thang than conditioned knowledge of and adherence to rules.

I tease people about grammar as a joke...
I'm a FIRM beliver, that if my Grammer was proper, my grandPa wouldn't have gotten his dinky stinky, and ultimately i wouldn't be here wasteing a valuable rant on somebody who may very well PMP me an edited version of this post with big red circles (just teasing...i understand you are O/C about the issue or anything;)

Where's this shit come from....

have fun out there!

thx,
the pale e


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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801288 -

I write and speak in 3 different languages and it doesn't make me more intelligent than anybody else, the drawback is that you have to get used to the grammar everytime you try to write/speak, writing and thinking in english is difficult to some of us, because for most it's not our native language. I don't think there's a direct relation between intelligence and linguistic, i mean, the skill to express your thoughts is not representative of the "quality" of your thoughts (intelligence), at least i don't classify people here that way. Anyway, i try to correct myself everytime i make an error, i've improved my english since i got here, guess i own you all a big thanks !!!

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801296 -

I don't think you are arrogant but my opinion is that if you can't see the message because of the messenger, then you are to easily distracted (unless the message is not decipherable, but you are talking about people who don't know the difference between to and too, which is hardly impossible to decipher).

Maybe I just say that because often times my spelling is aweful!


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801393 -

I do not necessarily jump to the conclusion that the person might not have something important to say but I have found a correlation between facility with language and the profundity of a post.

Some may call that judgemental, I call it observation.

Cheers,

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #801731 -

I think everyone needs to take into account that for some people, they may have excellent grammar but horrible typing skills. I am one of these people. I type my posts at about 10-15 words a minute. Then I go back and correct any typing errors I make. any other grammar errors are the result of not giving a fuck. I am not getting graded on my posts. A spelling error will not hurt my GPA. If you are so ignorant that you associate missing commas with lack of intelligence, you need to re-evaluate your life. Some of the stupidest people I've ever met had huge vocabularies and excellent grammar. And they use it to show how stupid they actually are.

Postalboy


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #801785 -

I understand what you mean, but keep in mind that very bad typing is not a reliable indicator of intelligence. A buddy of mine has cerebral palsy and he types barely decipherable gibberish because he can only use one hand and he has poor motor control. It could also be that some people just don't rate grammar and spelling online as a high priority. Their message gets across most of the time, so why should they care? As Mr Mushrooms said, there is a noticable correlation between the grammar standards of a post and the post's intellectual merit, but that does not mean that people who don't have good grammar have nothing intelligent to say. Ignore them if you want, but you'll miss a lot. Having said that I do skip posts that have poor grammatical structure just because it's too damn hard on the eyes and mind to read a post with no capitals or punctuation. But it don't mean they're dumb. I post lots of dumb things but I always spell them right.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #802226 -

You captured the meaning I was trying to explain.

Thank you.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #802836 -

I'm a member at Outkast.com and once upon a time I mentioned something similar to this thread. It wasn't a pretty site after mentioning my ideas that good grammer=intelligence.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Phenix]
    #802918 -

It could also be that some people just don't rate grammar and spelling online as a high priority.

Yes


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #802991 -

Fauk that... how does the way you spell, grammar and all that other stupid english writing bs have anything to do with inteligence? First off we are taught this. Does this mean we always have to follow it? You can easily understand someones post no matter how bad its misspelled can't you? Just because someone didn't pick up something back in elementary school it does not make them stupid. Not everyone conforms to shit like this.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Droz]
    #803020 -

Another thing that has some correlation to the intelligence of a poster is the amount of vulgarity that they use. I am not saying that vulgar talk is a sign that a person is unintelligent but I am saying that if a person uses foul language all the time it is a sign that their vocabulary suffers and so might their ability to communicate which in turn might be a sign they are mentally-challenged.

Cheers,

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #803201 -

I unequivocally concur with your supposition that preponderant use of vulgarity in someone's vernacular is a determinate indication of their vocabulary deficiency.



Okay, I'll admit... I had to break out the thesaurus for that one!



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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Droz]
    #803216 -

First off we are taught this. Does this mean we always have to follow it?

When someone is trying to express their feelings, provoke thought, or invite discussion on these boards; I don't think they are choosing not to "follow" the grammar, puncuation and spelling skills they have been taught.

They simply don't know how to use those skills well enough. Thus, they do not learn very proficiently. Thus, they aren't highly intelligent. These are the suppositions that I make.

You can easily understand someones post no matter how bad its misspelled can't you?

Sometimes. Like I said before, it does not have to be perfect. I'm not saying that I wouldn't talk to a person just because they misspelled a few words or don't know when to use to and too. But there are some posts where it takes me a minute just to decipher one sentence. This is what I'm talking about.

Just because someone didn't pick up something back in elementary school it does not make them stupid. How does the way you spell, grammar and all that other stupid english writing bs have anything to do with inteligence?

I think it has everything to do with intelligence. Having a good command of language shows that you are a good learner. It shows you're intelligent because you can convey your thoughts clearly without someone having to decipher what you're trying to say. I also think good language skill is an indication of how well-read a person is, which definitely relates to their intelligence. People who read a lot generally have more knowledge and generally have better language skills because they just pick up on them from reading so much.



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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #803276 -

BY assuming someone is un-intelligent by how he/she writes, registers in my brain as wrong, to me. Just because their flow, or sentence structure isnt AS grammatically correct as yours, does not mean this person is less intelligent. Your flow of thought, and creation of ideas, and understanding of ideas has nothing to do with typing or even writing. If someone wasnt taught how to write a language, then i guess they might seem un-intelligent to you.

This reminds me of a book i once read (yes ive read a few). It was called Slapstick, written by Kurt Vonnegut. In this book there were two twins who, together, created one genius. When together, the boy wrote the ideas down (the girl neither knew how or wanted to know how to write), and the girl came up with the genius ideas. They fully developed these ideas together, but the girl was the thinker...the spark. Seperate, they seemed almost retarded. But together they were smarter than the average bear.

If you've read this book, youd understand what i mean in my ramblings. If you havent, id recommend this book to anyone.

Edit:

By skipping over someones post because it isnt very well structured, because he misspelled some key words, or his too and to's were misplaced, seems a bit discriminatory to me. You have come off to me as an understanding and an undiscriminatory guy, in the past. ... Maybe im just being drammatic.


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.

Edited by thePatient (08/07/02 06:39 PM)

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #803290 -

What? Now vulgarity is an issue... and curse words indicate an aptitude deficiency?
I have to disagree on this one. I'd say it's the WAY you use those words...

I curse like a fuckin' sailor and I doubt many would argue my language proficiency (preemptive shush). But I guess the entire beat generation must've been deficient as well. Burroughs, Ginsberg, Kerouac, etc... Hell, if vulgarity is a sign of a mental deficiency, what would you say about Charles Bukowski?

if a person uses foul language all the time it is a sign that their vocabulary suffers and so might their ability to communicate which in turn might be a sign they are mentally-challenged.
I figured that a man so fond of dialectic would avoid such slippery slopes.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: thePatient]
    #803304 -

Once again:

I'm not saying that I wouldn't talk to a person [or that the person is less intelligent than me] just because they misspelled a few words or don't know when to use to and too. But there are some posts where it takes me a minute just to decipher one sentence, [and it's down-right difficult for me to understand what they are trying to say]. This is what I'm talking about.

And my assumption about language skill relating to a person's intelligence does not apply to people whose native language is not english or who were not formally educated in the language. These people have a reason for their deficiency that is not necessarily related to their intelligence.



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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Sclorch]
    #803320 -

I agree, vulgarity is not necessarily a measure of a person's vocabulary or intelligence... But you have to agree that a person who consistently curses in everyday conversation when it is not needed in any way is usually not the brightest bulb in the bunch.

I also think a person who relies on cursing when arguing or trying to get a point across is lacking a bit in EQ rather than IQ.


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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #803362 -

i think having a strong command of the english language(or whatever your native tongue may be) doesn't necessarily equate to possessing higher intellect. it simply shows that they have excellent communication skills and nothing more.

english was always my best subject in school and i enjoyed writing essays, short stories, and poetry. however, these days i choose when to be grammatically correct. for a setting as casual as a message board on the shroomery, i just concentrate more on getting my point across then how i punctuate or if i capitalize my letters when i am suppose to. now if i were writing a resume in order to get a job that i really want then obviously im going to put alot more effort into it. if someone here reads my posts and comes to the conclusion that im not very intelligent simply because i didnt put a comma in the right place here and there then thats fine with me. i always love being underestimated.






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"in your pockets with red hot rockets!"

"I love it when a plan comes together!"


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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: htownkid28]
    #803783 -

How many people would go out on a date with your zipper down, your hair unwashed, wrinkled clothes and teeth unbrushed? It certainly IS a sign of something? Apathy? Lack of social intelligence? Laziness?

The point being, that we come into a public forum to share ideas and allow ourselves be scrutinized both in form and content. To say that only content is important is akin to my dating situation above. "Gee, I am a great person, can't she get past my shoddy appearance?" The answer is maybe, but much less likely.

I have seen many posts where the poster has obviously not proof-read their post at all. One such example was where the word psychedelic was spelled three different ways in one paragraph. This may not necessarily relate to intelligence, but it certainly reeks of lowered awareness, which in turn makes me wonder about their "facts", sources and even ideas.

Presentation in all of walks of life is socially significant.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Sclorch]
    #803795 -

I love you, man.

Sclorch, there were enough qualifiers in my post on vulgarity that I am sure you understood what I meant.

I have heard PhD's pepper their intercourse with foul language and they were highly intelligent. On the other hand, I have been with dullards that couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions written on the heel that ONLY used vulgarity and never talked about anything other than sex, booze, or making money. If they ever had an original thought and spoke it I would have fainted.

I love your responses. They are witty, thought provoking and clever.

Cheers,

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #803869 -

But there are some posts where it takes me a minute just to decipher one sentence, [and it's down-right difficult for me to understand what they are trying to say]. This is what I'm talking about.

But wouldn't this negatively reflect on Your intelligence since you are the one unable to decipher it. I mean if one person writes something with bad grammar and spelling and the other "smarter" person can't understand it, wouldn't that show that they aren't as smart as they think. Ok this part was a joke.

But also be aware of the of the difference between lack of puncuation and WRONG punctuation. I sometimes write without punc. because I'm in a hurry and can't type. Other times I use puncuation and I proofread. And I am not saying that all bad grammar is just laziness but sometimes intelligence and bad language skills are unrelated.

How many people would go out on a date with your zipper down, your hair unwashed, wrinkled clothes and teeth unbrushed? It certainly IS a sign of something? Apathy? Lack of social intelligence? Laziness?

OK this analogy I am 50/50 about. If I were to place myself in a situation where my appearance did matter, such as a date, I would try to be as neat and attractive as possible. BUT if I was going to a friends house to hang out I wouldn't give a shit if my clothes were wrinkled and I forgot to put deodorant on. There is a difference. And I am not on this board to get a date. I'm just here to hang out with friends, even though I don't actually have any. But you see my point right? Sometimes appearances do not matter.
After reading a lot of posts by guys like Marcos, Swami, Schlorch, and Mr. Mushrooms I know they are all intelligent. If one day they write a post that has a misspelled word and a missing period, I will still read it because I know that sometimes the appearance doesn't matter when the substance is going to be flawless.

To use another analogy: the Mushroom. They look kind of gross, they taste fucking horrible and they don't smell to good either. The appearance is terrible, but AAHHHHH the glorious substance that they bring.....

Postalboy






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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: postalboy]
    #803924 -

After reading a lot of posts by guys like Marcos, Swami, Schlorch, and Mr. Mushrooms I know they are all intelligent. If one day they write a post that has a misspelled word and a missing period, I will still read it because I know that sometimes the appearance doesn't matter when the substance is going to be flawless.

Thank kew thank kew

I see that you have great insight. You perception is startling and your powers of reason are beyond compare. I have been waiting for someone to notice how brilliant I am.

Please elaborate on the intelligence of my posts. I'm all ears.

Cheers,

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #804002 -

I have been waiting for someone to notice how brilliant I am.

I said intelligent NOT brilliant.

Postalboy


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: ]
    #804003 -

I see that you have great insight. You perception is startling and your powers of reason are beyond compare. I have been waiting for someone to notice how brilliant I am.

Please elaborate on the intelligence of my posts. I'm all ears.


LOL!


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: postalboy]
    #804086 -

Then perhaps you're not as perceptive as I thought.

Anyone who recognizes what a genius I am has to be a genius.

Are there any other genius' out there?

come on, tell me how great I am.

Cheers,

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: Swami]
    #805314 -

again, as i said in my earlier post, i choose when to come correct. there is a time and a place for everything. why be all prim and proper all the time? why not let your hair down and be yourself once in a while? you don't go out in a three piece suit, clean shaven, and hair all nice and neat every single time you walk out of the house do you? i know i dont. in that same way, i dont go about writing a post on the shroomery like im writing an essay for a composition and rhetoric class.

i guess the point i was trying to make earlier in this thread, is that i look more at content when trying to ascertain whether or not the person i am discussing things with possesses any intelligence at all. i agree with you on the fact that i have read alot posts by people who make alot of spelling and punctuation mistakes and you have to sit there and try to decipher what they are trying to say. but i dont arbitrarily dismiss them as unintelligent. i just chalk it up to they might be under the influence, in a hurry, really tired, can't type, or that's just the way they choose to write.

btw, if you were out on a date with a really hot chick and her hair was a little messed up, blouse was wrinkled, and used alot of profanity when she talked would you just ignore her and get up and walk away?


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"in your pockets with red hot rockets!"

"I love it when a plan comes together!"


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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: htownkid28]
    #805426 -

you know what? i completely see what you're saying. we choose how we want to write each time we have to write something. on something like the internet, we don't have to be perfect and prim and proper all the time, so we aren't.

but there's a difference between not being prim and perfect and not being able to convey what you're saying. i also agree with swami. if you are trying to convey an intelligent thought, you need to at least seem aware enough of your thinking to know when to use to and when to use too.

i think it's easy to tell the people who are just choosing not to be perfect from the people who really don't know. and i just can't help but think that the people who really don't know are less intelligent if they aren't even in command of something as basic as language.

i guess i am an arrogant, egotistical bastard


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Namaste.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #805923 -

I have no problem with typos, minor grammatical errors, bad punctuation etc. But if a person shows poor diction, misuse of words and/or phrases, and inconsistent grammer/spelling/punctuation. It generally denotes lower intelligence.
But sometimes those are the most entertaining posts.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #805954 -

How dare you insinuate that I should tolerate such a diabolical insult from such an insignificant piece of ingenuity such as your self?



No really, your cool. i just thought i'd throw some big words in there.

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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #806833 -

Well, be careful not to judge so quick, first you never now if the poster is from an English speaking country (my case) he he.
I speak 3 languages, but I admit that my grammar is not the best. (But I don't think that's the factor that makes me stupid)
Second, even the most uneducated person will know something that you don't.
So is up to you to have an open or close mind, when the lesson comes.


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Re: Language Skill and Intelligence [Re: LOBO]
    #806957 -

buenos puntos... or something like that


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Namaste.

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