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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4506965 - 08/07/05 03:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

...but I feel moderately intelligent and everything I look at speaks volumes about 'supergenious...

That is fine, but falls in the nature of poetry or appreciation of nature or... but not science, as there is NOTHING to teach.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4506981 - 08/07/05 03:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

aliens cruising around and designing life on earth is fair enough, its possible, but it doesn't really answer any questions. the problem of the aliens' origin is still there, and there's nothing to suggest that aliens have been to earth.

if you want to teach this in schools, ok. but like i said in my earlier post, it takes about 3 seconds. there's nothing to really explain, all you have to say is "its possible that aliens visited earth in the past and designed and placed the first life forms here".


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Swami]
    #4506987 - 08/07/05 03:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Taking one thoughtful look at George Bush should convince anybody that intelligent design has nothing to do with his existence.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507045 - 08/07/05 03:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Woodie, ID takes current Evolutionary Theory, which is supported by a giant avalanche of evidence, looks for places in the theory that have not been fully resolved, and fill it in with a supernatural explanation.

Here's an analogy. We don't FULLY understand how rain forms. We know most of the deal, but way down at the bottom of it all, nobody has ever seen an atom. Saying that condensation has to do with water molecules and their constituent atoms coalescing from vapor to liquid as they climb through the atmospheric laps rate is only a theory too, closely related to the Atomic Theory, which incinerated two Hiroshima and Nagasaki a few decades ago.

The Atomic Theory, like Evolutionary Theory, is incomplete. We don't know all there is to know about atomic interactions, but we know that claiming rain to be God's tears is an absurdity.

This is what ID does. Instead of positing a testable assertion like a good theory must, it resorts to low blows by nit picking at Evolution and when it finds a weak spot, it says AHA! Evolution can't explain it (at the moment) so it must be God.

There are very few real biologists who believe in ID and none of them publish anything of consequence besides church leaflets; none of them publish in peer-reviewed journals. There's a good reason for this:

ID is not science. This is religion.

Perhapse it is an experiment from a long gone alien race.

Well, alright then: should we teach about the Jatravartids' Great Green Arkleseizure? How about spacedragon's Reptilian Masters? How about the Yanomami's Spirits? Where do we stop?




what is supernatural about the act of creation? Don't we create robots?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4507050 - 08/07/05 03:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Be careful, they come from ol' suckers scool :smile:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4507069 - 08/07/05 03:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

One class hour is enough.

That's not what's being proposed. What's being proposed is equal time. This is to take the form of studying each kingdom in the biological taxa and explaining how each part of the creature's anatomy was designed to fit into its niche in the environment, appearing by magic rather than evolving from its predecessors.

This is in direct contradiction to the fossil record and the evidence from widely disparate fields of study from all over science.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507101 - 08/07/05 03:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
One class hour is enough.

That's not what's being proposed. What's being proposed is equal time. This is to take the form of studying each kingdom in the biological taxa and explaining how each part of the creature's anatomy was designed to fit into its niche in the environment, appearing by magic rather than evolving from its predecessors.

This is in direct contradiction to the fossil record and the evidence from widely disparate fields of study from all over science.





It is impossible to keep the idea scientific in such a long time,
there is little science-vise that can be said about this concept because for now it is just a thought, a possible alternative.

I think it should be mentioned as an alternative, but only in one hour, mentioned that there is no evidence of that exept unanswered questions, but that we can't rule it out compleatly.
That is enough to open minds of people

I can't imagine what would they be talking about for equal time, they could only start talking about religions, but then it's not science anymore.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507139 - 08/07/05 04:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"appearing by magic"

No one is talking about things appearing by magic except you. Intelligent design would involve some process, even if it isn't testable by our current means and knowledge. Intelligent design does not equal mysticiam.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: moog]
    #4507145 - 08/07/05 04:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
"appearing by magic"

No one is talking about things appearing by magic except you. Intelligent design would involve some process, even if it isn't testable by our current means and knowledge. Intelligent design does not equal mysticiam.




I agree


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507153 - 08/07/05 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Please could anybody explain to me how to measure 'intelligent design' so we could see if it is a scientific topic ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: moog]
    #4507163 - 08/07/05 04:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No one is talking about things appearing by magic except you.

ID says that biological diversity was caused by a designer. This is the way theologians repackage God into something that sounds scientific. The designer is not in evidence (just like God), cannot be tested for (just like God), cannot be falsified (just like God), and is credited with designing every animal on Earth (just like God).

God == Magic;


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4507169 - 08/07/05 04:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes, does anyone have a brief on what is being proposed as curriculi on intelligent design theory to be taught.

It can't possibly say things appeared by magic and be taken seriously.

Why is this thread making me laugh so hard?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4507193 - 08/07/05 04:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It can't possibly say things appeared by magic and be taken seriously.

You're not getting it. That is exactly what's being proposed: that every species popped into being instantly and all at the same time (the Genesis story). Nevermind the fossil record that clearly shows this idea to be bullshit.

Why is this thread making me laugh so hard?

I'd be laughing too if I didn't know that with the president's endorsement, the ~51% who re-elected him will sway in support of ID being taught in biology class.  :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507206 - 08/07/05 04:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

We could easily pop this idea out of science, if we proof, that it is not measurable !


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507236 - 08/07/05 04:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You are fucking with my head Diploid. They want to teach in biology class that everything appeared instantly by magic?

What freaking planet am I on?

This proposal may be seriously taking place in some warped and ridiculous version of this reality, however, I find it hysterical. And people ask me why I home school.

if it gets passed through, parents will be yanking their kids out of public schools and putting them in non denominational private schools so fast it will make congress spin. And I say good. Then maybe America will wake up to how fucked up our public educational system is and revamp it already to get the kids back in it.

As it is, the homeschooling rates alone doubles every year. That doesn't include how many are taken out of the public system for the private.

Consider this diploid, most parents who home school and put their kids in private schools do so because they want christian values taught in the academic setting. Those make up a majority of who voted for Bush.

I voted for the Independent Party. Always do!

At least I have the option to home school. If the government wants to take that right and freedom away from me, that is the day I move out of the U.S. and hit Fiji.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/07/05 04:41 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507261 - 08/07/05 04:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
No one is talking about things appearing by magic except you.

ID says that biological diversity was caused by a designer. This is the way theologians repackage God into something that sounds scientific. The designer is not in evidence (just like God), cannot be tested for (just like God), cannot be falsified (just like God), and is credited with designing every animal on Earth (just like God).

God == Magic;




so If I make a series of conscious robots, put the on an island, and then 1000 generations later they can't find evidence of me, does that mean I am magic?

Nope, I made them with my crewdriver, that's not magic


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offline3eyeswise
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Registered: 08/21/04
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507282 - 08/07/05 04:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ID has nothing to do with the Genesis story ID just says that intelligence was behind evolution ,and intelligence designed the big bang but it does not take away the credit of evolution in any way.Good science observes the facts look at a car,or building,or computer,all were made with great detail and wisdom, same with life.I say they should teach both in school.


--------------------
By questioning death I have found the answer to life.


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OfflineSerioOria
?!one#!>?

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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4507286 - 08/07/05 04:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Sadly, i am going to agree with bush on this one... WAIT!! before you flame the shit out of me, i know its absolutely absurd to teach the idea of 'intelligent design'

as a science, evolution is the closest i believe we will ever come to know where we physically came from, BUT

we do need to educate children about the dangers of religion, the fact that every religion has turned into nothing more than a power gaining tool, sadly they have been bastardized, and i think they should study the root of different world religions, not just the idea of creation. I also think they should study the different aspects of where religions came from, many of which came from entheogen use, not just a power hungry bastard.

All in all, more of a "World Religions" study rather than the idea of creation. I think that would suit the public education system much better than it is today.

And this should not be taught in associatoin with the science classes at any level, period.


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: 3eyeswise]
    #4507304 - 08/07/05 04:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

3eyeswise said:
ID has nothing to do with the Genesis story ID just says that intelligence was behind evolution ,and intelligence designed the big bang but it does not take away the credit of evolution in any way.Good science observes the facts look at a car,or building,or computer,all were made with great detail and wisdom, same with life.I say they should teach both in school.




wait a second, who mentioned big bang, we are talking about earth, creation of life on earth, not creation of universe


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class [Re: Diploid]
    #4507305 - 08/07/05 04:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That is another Bush-Mind-Bomb !

Get cover, folks ! Hold what you have !

:grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
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