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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: Todcasil]
    #4087618 -

Todcasil said:
Delusion_of_Self said:
Todcasil said:
im only speaking in regards to what is written in the bible, as i know it.

not a mishmosh of guru/christianity.

combining teh two in this fashion does nothing but speculate eastern views on a western (sic) myth.


Isn't Jesus a guru to his disciples? What exactly do you understand by guru?

Karma is action...bad karma is bad action...What are sins then?


What do you understand by "he died for a sins"? As i said before, a master can absorbs the bad karma of others if he wishes to.


he speaks of himself as the savior, not the guru.


Savior: A person who rescues another from harm, danger, or loss.

Isn't Jesus path supposed to lead you to God?

Guru: Is a teacher or guide.

A guru in the spiritual sense is one who knows the way and thus can lead others to God.

The difference you see is really subjective and not objective. Isn't the objective the same?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: Todcasil]
    #4087640 -

Todcasil said:
Delusion_of_Self said:
Todcasil said:
im only speaking in regards to what is written in the bible, as i know it.

not a mishmosh of guru/christianity.

combining teh two in this fashion does nothing but speculate eastern views on a western (sic) myth.


Isn't Jesus a guru to his disciples? What exactly do you understand by guru?

Karma is action...bad karma is bad action...What are sins then?


What do you understand by "he died for a sins"? As i said before, a master can absorbs the bad karma of others if he wishes to.


he speaks of himself as the savior, not the guru.



How can the absolute be different from itself?

Both a Guru and the Savior -- Jesus -- are one with the Universal Consciousness. I agree with you then...Jesus is The Savior...there is no other...but so is any Real Guru...he is the only Savior or Guru in the sense that if they are one with God then that means they are in essence the same, hence One absolute. From a limited perspective, that is a materialistic one, they are different but this can be deceiving...


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: wjames]
    #4088501 -

wjames said:
myndreach said:
Right, and Judas was just another person treated as a worthless tool in God's pathway to proving he's boss.  :wink:


According to tradition, God tried making intelligent creatures without free will, but that was boring. 


Right, the angels some say.

Quote:
So then He thought it would be even more generous to make creatures with free will--Man.
The price paid for the gift of free will is that it would be possible to misuse it, as did Judas.


Right...and this misuse and suffering because of freewill's misuse is all part of God's plan.

Quote:
It is the existence of free will, then, that precisely demonstrates God's love, generosity, and willingess to share His divinity.


Or his cruel nature and love of a good joke in which untold billions suffer for all of eternity as a result of said joke.

Quote:
Christianity teaches that people are called to be gods themsevles--Sons of God in fact, not slaves.  That is clearly stated.


To be gods? This is not clearly stated in any religious text I've read before from Christianity. I suppose maybe some gnosticism could point that way, but that is far from mainstream Christianity.


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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: myndreach]
    #4094211 -

myndreach said:
To be gods? This is not clearly stated in any religious text I've read before from Christianity. I suppose maybe some gnosticism could point that way, but that is far from mainstream Christianity.


John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

John 14:10
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

I would agree that it's mildly gnostic--but so is the whole Gospel of John. As for "mainstream Christianity"--what's that? Is it what the average Christian believes? That doesn't mean diddly.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali

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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4094213 -

Quote:
Delusion_of_Self said:A guru in the spiritual sense is one who knows the way and thus can lead others to God.

The difference you see is really subjective and not objective. Isn't the objective the same?


In Christianity, Jesus' life, passion, death and resurrection effected a cosmic change that enables a persons salvation. Jesus is thus more than a teacher. He pays the karmic debt.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali

Edited by wjames (04/25/05 04:22 AM)

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Re: Judas and Jesus [Re: wjames]
    #4094754 -

wjames said:
Quote:
Delusion_of_Self said:A guru in the spiritual sense is one who knows the way and thus can lead others to God.

The difference you see is really subjective and not objective. Isn't the objective the same?


In Christianity, Jesus' life, passion, death and resurrection effected a cosmic change that enables a persons salvation. Jesus is thus more than a teacher. He pays the karmic debt.


You have essentially repeated what I said. Read my previews comments in this thread.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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