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Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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The Gospel of Judas
    #6477939 - 01/19/07 07:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

You might have been reading about this Gospel that was discovered in 1970 (papyrus was in terrible shape) and only recently pieced together and translated. I'm not saying that it reinterprets basic Christianity, but it is a Gnostic Gospel - a Sethian Gospel to be exact. Sethians believed that the 'generation of Seth' goes back to Adam's and Eve's third son Seth. Only spiritual descendents of this generation have 'Eternal Life.' All others have their souls 'on loan,' not as a permanent 'free gift.' The Archangel Michael loans humans a soul which is returned at death, the person thereby being annihilated. The Archangel Gabriel makes a gift of soul and those people spiritually survive death. Judas alone, among the other disciples, belongs to 'the generation of Seth' according to this Gospel.

What turns the canonical versions of the Gospel dramas on their heads is that Judas is the hero, not the devil. Judas and Jude are really the same name, and they mean Jew. Judas has for centuries symbolized Jews as betrayers of the [Jewish] LORD, scapegoated as the symbolic projection, and turned back on real live Jews who have been persecuted for centuries. Here Judas is a hero. He alone understands Who and What Jesus is and Who and What His Father is. It is not YHVH which the other disciples believe, but Barbelo - a Name for The Fullness [Pleroma] of the Transcendence beyond YHVH. Judas had the important task of 'betraying' Jesus FOR Jesus, who says to Judas:

"But you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man who clothes me."

It is just another example of a different vantage point taken by early Christians (140-160 AD) which indicated a Gnostic transcendental theology. There is no crucifixion, death, empty tomb narrative or resurrection-ascension drama.

"There will be no resurrection. This is perhaps the key point of all. Jesus will not be raised from the dead in this book. Why would he be? The entire point of salvation is to escape this material world. A resurrection of a dead corpse brings the person back into the world of the creator. Since the point is to allow the soul to leave this world behind and to enter into 'that great and holy generation' - that is, the divine realm that transcends this world - a resurrection of the body is the very last thing that Jesus, or any of his true followers would want." - The Gospel of Judas by Kasser, Meyer & Wurst, 2006, p.110.

The resurrection of the flesh at a future time - a reanimation of even some transfigured body of form on a planetary body (Earth) makes no sense from the internal logic of a condition of Eternal Life, since planets and suns die as we now know. The literal, concrete mind took mythos for physis [nature]. The empty tomb narratives of the four canonical Gospels didn't help the Christian message (IMHO) in the long run. It is unlikely that an embodied Jesus will descend to Earth in glory as is written. The words must be glyphs for events which can only be Known inwardly. This is the Gnostic take on it. People must mature psychologically if they are to mature spiritually. The Gnostic say this very thing using 'psychic' and 'pneumatic' respectively. Otherwise, what do we have other than a George Romero theme meeting a Martha Stewart aesthetic in a George Orwellian future time? Not my personal vision of the Kingdom of Heaven, how about your's?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/19/07 10:08 PM)

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6478084 - 01/19/07 08:27 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

This is uninspired writing clearly is in opposition to God's Word. God arranges and ordains all events and makes sure His Word is providentially preserved. Satan has always attempted to add additional books to the Word in order to destroy the gospel. Most of the time a false prophet like Joe Smith (Mormons) or Ellen G. White (7th Day Adventist) will try to claim additional "inspiration" and add more books. Other times a discovery of a lost "gospel" is claimed to be part of God's Word. All these attempts will never succeed.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: fivepointer]
    #6478093 - 01/19/07 08:28 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

:yawn:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: fivepointer]
    #6478100 - 01/19/07 08:30 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

lol


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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6478621 - 01/19/07 10:51 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

In my opinion, the Bible has very little credibility to begin with. There is no evidence to support the Bible, the Koran, or any other "divinely" inspired text. What is even more problematic is that the world's three main monotheistic religions- Christianity, Judaism, and Islam- all make incompatible claims that their books are inspired (and literally written) by God.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6478663 - 01/19/07 11:10 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
There is no evidence to support the Bible, the Koran, or any other "divinely" inspired text.




In what manner would this evidence support these texts if it were there? In which way would these texts be supported?

Quote:


all make incompatible claims that their books are inspired (and literally written) by God.




Which claims are these - could you provide them for this discussion?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6478749 - 01/19/07 11:48 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Evidence for the Bible or Koran

If there were any tangible evidence leaning in the direction of the Bible or Koran's credibility, it just might be able to shade the probablity of their validity. According to science, nothing can be proven or disproven: ergo, if the evidence ever surmounted it would be able to demonstrate the likelihood of the claim it is trying to support.

Scripture's Claim to Divine Inspiration

The Bible: 2 Peter 1:20-21 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

The Koran: "This Qur'ân is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds. Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"10:37&38

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6479752 - 01/20/07 12:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

What type of credibility are you referring to? Do you mean historical credibility? There are many discrepancies with regard to time and place. Do you mean theological credibility? Is the Bible the inspired Word of God? That is a matter of personal choice. The Bible was compiled of selected codices and documents by priests of the forming Roman Catholic Church under the orders of Emperor Constantine (himself not a Christian, but a worshiper of Mithras, until his politically motivated death bed conversion). The selected book excluded the rejected books - most of which were destroyed by these early religious fascists. Fortunately, the Nag Hammadi library was unearthed, as were additional Gospels in order to show that there were many other writings that embodied Truth as espoused by non-Christian pre-Christian faiths.

Are myths credible? Myths are culturally colored, universal themes that belong to the racial memories of the human psyche. These are structured themes that inhabit the deeper parts of the mind - the Collective Unconscious. They are credible because they illustrate through idea, drama and image the themes of human concerns - the different initiations of human life that are imbued with cosmic implications: creation, birth, puberty, sexuality, childbirth, aging, death, rebirth, resurrection, judgement, punishment, liberation, etc. The Bible and the Qu'ran are two major examples of mythic literature (primarily) which embody visionary experiences, mystical experiences and a record of cultural mores deriving from how different groups of humans translate down these religious experiences into codifications for living in the ordinary world.

If you are reading religious writings from the pre-scientific past and expecting the authors to have penned these things with the same kind of mentality that a modern man has you already have the wrong understanding about how to approach these writings. Their cosmologies were wrong. They confused the physical cosmos with metaphysical ideas in many instances. The philosophers from ancient times could discern metaphor from literal, concrete images, but philosophers have always been few and far between. Most of the world for most of history have been ignorant, pre-scientific, superstitious, psychologically primitive and unsophisticated, and the fanatics of the world still are! The subtle thinkers are called evil because of associations of subtlety with sneakiness or better yet, 'snakiness' (Genesis calling the serpent subtle above all animals - metaphor taken literally by fundamentalist fools). It didn't help that Ophite and Naasene Gnostic used the serpent as a symbol of Wisdom (even though Jesus says: "Be ye therefore as wise as serpents and harmless as doves." - Matthew 10:16).

Personally, I don't look for puzzles, but the transcendental problems are paradoxical and puzzling to the linear rational mind that we use most of the time. I want to distil out the spiritual meanings from scriptural writings and adopt them into my life to facilitate my own transcendence from the traps and trappings of this world. I want to fly from space-time not be pulled from it, kicking and screaming. But that's just me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6480033 - 01/20/07 02:24 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Riddle me this, Mark: Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6480128 - 01/20/07 03:19 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yes AND No. I've always been drawn to Nestorian theology and these days I tend to see Christ as Logos and thus Divine, but I see Y'shua ben Miriam as fully human. So far, so good, by orthodox Christian Chalcedonian standards, however, despite the 'fully God, fully man' orthodoxy, I tend to see two separate natures not confounded in a utterly unique and mysterious way. So I tend to see the ontological difference in terms of 'degree' not 'specie.'

This position puts me opposite the Monophysites, Eutychianites, Apollinarians, as well as against Patripassionist/Modalist/Sabellians. God did not suffer and die on the cross (which is absurd), and the Logos remains impassive and unaffected by the psychophysical experiences of humans, Y'shua included.

I prefer the simple theology of the Synoptic Gospels in which Y'shua is 'a man annointed by God,' as opposed to the Hellenistic Johannine theology in which Y'shua is 'God clothed with flesh.' The difference here is radical, and most uncritical Christians do not realize that their own understanding of the Synoptics has become colored by the Johannine. This makes me a moderate inasmuch as I stand between a strictly Jewish rejection of incarnational thought and the incarnational thought that belongs to pre-Christian Hellenistic religion with its notion of a 'Hero' born of a God and a mortal woman. I therefore reject the doctrine of Miriam as Theotokos - Mother of God. God was in Christ, but Christ is a possibility for ALL believers through 'theosis.' Nevertheless, the personage of Jesus the Christ remains for me the Paradigm, the Archetype of Christ, and in that sense He is Divine (whether or not He ever existed as a historical man)!

Of course, theology is a construction of men (not even women), and humans can never accurately describe or explain the sort of things that theology asks about the nature of Jesus Christ. Like the various depictions of atoms, atoms don't 'look' like anything at all. Visible appearance is a phenomenon of seeing which requires physical entities with eyes. We can create atomic models because based on the models, we can accomplish certain things. Similarly for theology. If my theology allows for the kind of relationship with God that is depicted in various stories about Y'shua, then it serves a useful purpose. Not only can I derive meaning from such a model, I can develop a path, a lifestyle, a mode of being-in-the-world. A Y'shua of a singularly unique specie can have no effect on me if He is one of a kind. He is, like the Adam Kadmon, Cosmic Man - the Archetype of our true nature. He is at our core as Pure Being, or He is nowhere at all.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6480885 - 01/20/07 08:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Why not just simply see the divine in everyday nature? Mokes things a whole lot easier and more likely.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: mr_kite]
    #6481103 - 01/20/07 10:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

True. However, I am an INTP by the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), 2-3% of the US population. If I was more 'S' than 'N' I could just dig nature.

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