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OfflineBasilides
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The Gospel of Judas
    #5488647 - 04/07/06 01:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

For those of you interested in reading the freshly translated Gospel of Judas...

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJudas.pdf

Below is an editorial on it (click the second link for the full article)

Quote:

'Gospel of Judas' Surfaces After 1,700 Years

Sign In to E-Mail This Print Single Page Reprints Save By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: April 6, 2006

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version, Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the authorities, telling Judas he will "exceed" the other disciples by doing so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/06/science/06cnd-judas.html (read more)





--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Basilides]
    #5489048 - 04/07/06 06:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, very interesting ! Thanks !


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (04/07/06 06:23 AM)


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5489098 - 04/07/06 07:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Beware of deception


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5489125 - 04/07/06 07:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

From Basilides' link:

[...]
Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society, said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be found in the past 60 years.

"The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature," Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example, was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of multiple rewriting.

"This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts," said Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of Munster in Germany. "I am completely convinced."
[...]


Hehe, but perhaps it was faked 300 a.d.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinedanliten
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5489127 - 04/07/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This is a joke right...


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: danliten]
    #5489141 - 04/07/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Really ? How do you come to this conclusion ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5489301 - 04/07/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
Beware of deception



Beware of close-mindedness and dogmatism.


--------------------


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Silversoul]
    #5489676 - 04/07/06 11:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

God told me.

I have given my life to him.

I believe his words.

He is the bringer of truth in the midst of lies.

Beware of the Evil one for he is the MASTER of deception who will deceive even the most learned and the most wise.

For those of you that haven't read the New Testament, read it, and if you have read it,read it again, from Matthew through revelations.

God speaks through his words.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5489845 - 04/07/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You think you're the only one who God talks to? I've had personal experience of gnosis, as have others in this forum. The four gospels that were included in the New Testament are by no means the only legitimate accounts of Jesus, and much wisdom is to gained by reading the apocrypha. If you are serious about knowing about your Lord and Savior, try reading the Gospel of Thomas, or the Gospel of Phillip, or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. That is, if your fragile ego can handle it.

Oh, and words are one of the lowest forms of communication with God. Gnosis is the highest.


--------------------


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Silversoul]
    #5490003 - 04/07/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
That is, if your fragile ego can handle it.





That quote doesn't sound like someone who talks to God.

For it is written you shall love thy neighbor as yourself. Those words don't sound like words of love to me.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5490005 - 04/07/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
That is, if your fragile ego can handle it.





That quote doesn't sound like someone who talks to God.

For it is written you shall love thy neighbor as yourself. Those words don't sound like words of love to me.



When Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites, did he not still love them? I'm simply trying to help.


--------------------


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OfflineCherk
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Basilides]
    #5490054 - 04/07/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Wow. What an amazing act of faith by Judas, I am humbled.


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5490568 - 04/07/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And for yourself, if you haven't bothered to learn under what circumstances the canonical New Testament was compiled, I recommend that YOU read Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes by Rev. John Shelby Spong. God 'speaks' through every moment of creation since God's 'Word' is the Logos - the infrastructure of creation.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5490606 - 04/07/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
Beware of deception




Then beware of all religions.


--------------------
:heart:


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: theuser]
    #5490679 - 04/07/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

beware of the beast

who makes war with the saints.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5490736 - 04/07/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

beware of the fearmongers

who attempt to mold others' beliefs with myths of demons and hellfire


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5490772 - 04/07/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I am very interested about the saying of Jesus "For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.", especially if one would consider gnostic influence in it.
Markos, isn't that exactly that concept what you can not give any value to ? But I would not see it so exclusively, like to 'uncover g*d'. I would see it more general, as to 'uncover' ones true, spiritual being, behind the material and physical flesh of the body (what also reflects back on the materialists mind).
Interesting, that this concept shows up in that gospel.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5490849 - 04/07/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

As a side point:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/1545

Click on PLAY THIS GAME for an interesting perspective.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MycoCat]
    #5490850 - 04/07/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And to base your faith on what a group of men arbitrarily decided was the word of God hundreds of years after Jesus' death doesn't make much sense, don't you think?


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.


Edited by MycoCat (04/07/06 07:36 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5490973 - 04/07/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, just because an ancient writing is uncovered doesn't mean that there is any real spiritual value to it. I collect apocryphal and pseudepigraphal books and I have seen some truly bogus writings. This evaluation comes not only from me but from professors of New Testament studies at my former seminary at Drew University. I mean, there was a lunatic fringe throughout history, and sometimes lunatics confuse profound truths with complete absurdity.

Here there is suggestion from Barbelo Gnostics, but again just because of name-droppers and jargon doesn't mean that we have a valuable piece. In fact this piece of writing suggests sinister, homoerotic and homicidal elements to what end? Ancient titillation? Shoot, read the Carpocratians if you want sexual perversity in the guize of Gnostic mysteries. We must not trust everything that pops up from the depths of times past, and we must be careful not to project our own meanings upon them.

Peace.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MycoCat]
    #5490979 - 04/07/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Better than words of people some thousand years after, telling me something about him.
At least that could bring us nearer to understanding of that "concept", that arose in some former times.

And it gives some 'complimentary' view of the Judas figure. It rips away the 'total evilness' from Judas, for a valuable side-view.
Everyone still asks:"If God is almighty, why he does this and that and why would he sacrifice his 'best man' ?"

Here you will come one step nearer to that answer.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5491006 - 04/07/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I know the (classic) Apocryphas as well and I am carefully filtering them, no worry :smile:

But it is funny, that this document is relatively 'fresh', if we consider that the first writings about Jesus started quite a while after his death.
I like the ancient context, in what it may be embedded, and I like the 'alternative' view upon Judas, if God is the almighty, who lets his 'best man' die...out of his plan. Judas was only a known part of this plan. That is one part, what I like, because it clarifies some twist, I think.

Also, the part with the 'man (body) who clothes him (Jesus)' [in context to his physical death] I think is a nice picture, to point out to some materialistic views in contrast to the spirit.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (04/07/06 09:00 PM)


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Silversoul]
    #5491236 - 04/07/06 10:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
If you are serious about knowing about your Lord and Savior, try reading the Gospel of Thomas, or the Gospel of Phillip, or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. That is, if your fragile ego can handle it.

Oh, and words are one of the lowest forms of communication with God. Gnosis is the highest.




Sorry Paradigm if I gave you the wrong impression. I only mentioned Reading the New Testament as one example of finding God, and what isn't in it, God will tell you what you need to know anyways.

I am not saying the books you mentioned are not the word of God. I know the higher prayer you are talking about that is better than words, God showed me it.

04/08/06 When I posted this I knew almost nothing about the Gnostic texts, since then God has told me where they really come from, as you can see on here the fruits from those reading those texts are different from those reading God's texts. I pray God will forgive me, & all of you.

I am not denying you are speaking to God either Paradigm, but I sense Pride in you. I know, God reminds me to get rid of my Pride. It is a sin that can lead to spiritual death.


Edited by Demotriton (04/08/06 08:59 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5491278 - 04/07/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
I am not denying you are speaking to God either Paradigm, but I sense Pride in you. I know, God reminds me to get rid of my Pride. It is a sin that can lead to spiritual death.




Please clarify. "Pride" has multiple definitions. Having a sense of one's value, self-respect, certainly isn't a negative trait for one to hold. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5492201 - 04/08/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

God gives me respect, I glorify God. I don't need self respect. Pride can be hidden in many shapes & forms.


Edited by Demotriton (04/08/06 08:54 AM)


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Offlinekotik
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Demotriton]
    #5492635 - 04/08/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

beware yourself, for your strong image of god will end up being your largest hurdle.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMycoCat
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: kotik]
    #5494029 - 04/08/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God - I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is FUCKED up. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago."

"Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever ?til the end of time...but he loves you. And he needs money."

"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to "God" are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate."

"Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. ?Do this? ?Gimme that? ?I want a new car? ?I want a better job?. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago God made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn't in God's divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan? And here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? ?Well it's God's will. God's will be done.? Fine, but if it Gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me. Couldn't you just skip the praying part and get right to his will?"

"Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes."

-George Carlin


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MycoCat]
    #5495134 - 04/08/06 11:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

this is where most of the problems with western religion come up. eastern religion tends to make more sense of the "evils" of the world that you mention


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleDarkcloud
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Basilides]
    #5495768 - 04/09/06 07:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It appears to be a Gnostic text. There's probably some Gematria in there too.


--------------------
:poison: :poison: :poison:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: MycoCat]
    #5496751 - 04/09/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons."

Carlin is cool. In mythological terms, Jesus IS the Sun. Born on the first day of the astrological new year, just below the three stars of Orion's belt. There's more to it than that, but much of the Jesus mythology was borrowed IMO from other myths of sun worship.

A question I presented to my religion professor: Since God knows everything that is and will be, and God created Satan, wouldn't God have known Satan would rebel? And if God knew Satan would rebel, wouldn't that mean God created Satan with the express purpose of having Satan rebel? So if God purposfully created Satan to rebel and be evil, isn't God the root source of evil?

He wasn't amused.

Rahz


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Basilides]
    #5496812 - 04/09/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

dude.. I am watching this now. on Discovery! :smile:

funny shit!

..right up where you find me! :laugh:


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Gomp]
    #5496872 - 04/09/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Worshipping the sun is probably the most reasonable act we could partake in, as far as religion is concerned. The Sun is the reason life exists. We are the result of a great system that harnesses the Sun's energy and passes it along to us, so that, thus, we can exist to worship the Sun! :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Gospel of Judas [Re: Rahz]
    #5496978 - 04/09/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
In mythological terms, Jesus IS the Sun.



Hehehe...I remember I once saw a church sign that said "Exposure to the Son may prevent burning."


--------------------


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