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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: What is free will? [Re: zionchild]
    #3262263 -

What if the 'spirit' is a manifestation of the brain?

:laugh:


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Re: What is free will? [Re: deff]
    #3262349 -

"Better to spend time cultivating your spirit than jacking off your brain. "

i think you just earned your first rating buddy

pm me sometime about what your take is on the fate of humanity btw i would appreciate that


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3262729 -

Free will in the abstract or philosophical sense is a bunch of irrelevant mumbo jumbo.

Notice how I hacked into Moonshoe's log-in...  :grin:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3265255 -

I didn't read through all the posts, so someone might of said this:
freewill is the ability to make decisions based on absolutely NOTHING
as soon as their is a cause for the action it is no longer a free action
the only way this would work is lets imagine action beams fire from the skies down to the earth. these beams are invisible and undetectable. if you are struck by one, you do an action programmed by the beam. this would be freewill. any action made by yourself or of divine power is inherently not free.
all choices are either divine, nurture, or nature driven
freewill was created to give us the illusion of control.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: Swami]
    #3265536 -

Absolutes don't exist, moot point, Swami. Nevertheless, I have pretty good control over my rage. I can blink out any emotion I want (when sober) at will, though it may take longer than 1 second.

I don't think the time it takes to exert a choice proves anything about the existence of free will.
What's more, you can still make a free choice when all determining factors point in the direction of that choice. Suppose you're offered a raise. You'll get better financially, for the same amount of work. Anyone would choose to make that choice freely, but you can also choose not to make that choice. The past is no reference for arguments on whether choices can be made in the future.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: What is free will? [Re: spud]
    #3265551 -

"freewill was created to give us the illusion of control"

Created by whom, and why?

I don't think it is inconcievable that the rational being is by nature capable of initiating voluntary motion.

If I were to accept determinism I don't think I would ever get up in the morning. I would just lay there and rationalize to myself that its not my fault that I am absent from my obligations and letting people down. Its all determined, I can't help it. If I were to accept determinism, then gratitude to people who help me out would be pointless, they had to help me; it was determined. The rapist and the serial killer likewise should experience no guilt; he is just rideing his destiny...

A metaphysical system based on determinism inevitably leads to an ethical system incapable of judgeing between good from evil. All actions no matter how heroic or heinious happen out of causal necesity, and carry the same moral worth.

If free will is a created illusion, the it's creator is evil.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3265563 -

True, if one argues there is no free will, there is no room for personal responsibility, and no reason why Hitler, Milosevic or Bush should be condemned for their actions. Now that is nonsense if I ever heard any.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: What is free will? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3265631 -

shroomydan said:
"freewill was created to give us the illusion of control"

Created by whom, and why?

I don't think it is inconcievable that the rational being is by nature capable of initiating voluntary motion.

If I were to accept determinism I don't think I would ever get up in the morning. I would just lay there and rationalize to myself that its not my fault that I am absent from my obligations and letting people down. Its all determined, I can't help it. If I were to accept determinism, then gratitude to people who help me out would be pointless, they had to help me; it was determined. The rapist and the serial killer likewise should experience no guilt; he is just rideing his destiny...

A metaphysical system based on determinism inevitably leads to an ethical system incapable of judgeing between good from evil. All actions no matter how heroic or heinious happen out of causal necesity, and carry the same moral worth.

If free will is a created illusion, the it's creator is evil.


I couldnt agree more, but I still believe it is an illusion
along with morals
nothing is wrong or right
I'm not going to get into this because I know I'm going to get flamed and its an issue most do not like to talk about. I honestly do not believe in guilt. if someone raped or murdered a friend I would get angry of course, and say they did wrong, but only because I am so self decieved to live a "normal" life.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: spud]
    #3265760 -

:smile:


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Re: What is free will? [Re: deff]
    #3266271 -

In a nutshell, I'd say the less present and more unconscious one is, the more they react rather than respond, hence more mechanical-deterministic actions. The more present and conscious one is, the more they respond than react.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: What is free will? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3267148 -

silversoul7 said:
Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way.  Perhaps I'm mistaken in the assumption that there is an "I" to make that choice.  Maybe all of existence is following some complex mathematical formula which includes an ego to give me the illusion that my actions are my own and not the result of that formula.  After all, we cannot truly separate ourselves from the universe.  We are a part of it, and any model of the universe which does not take this into account is bound to be flawed.  When a person claims to make a decision, what exactly is making that decision?  Is it their body?  Their brain?  These are all part of the universe, and thus subject to the law of cause and effect just as much as anything else.  Even if they say that their consciousness or soul(whatever that means) was responsible for the decision, the fact it was able to interact with the universe means that it is part of it.  So, in a sense, perhaps the universe itself is making your choices.  Or maybe "choice" has no real meaning.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I haven't read everything yet, and I don't have enough time at the moment to delve deeply into my own thoughts on the matter (which are very similar in idea to what I have quoted here), but I will return at a later point. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

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