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The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge
    #3067983 -

Nope, not a typo nor a stutter. The idea that it takes a lifetime to achieve some spiritual ideal is just another limiting belief.

In this challenge, I will let the members design a program for me that I will commit to religiously for three months. I will keep a journal and report back at the end of the experiment. As you guys know, that while I type a lot, I am a firm believer in practicality and action over blather.

Keep the rules and/or disciplines simple and limited in number and scope and reasonably practical. No, I will not drink urine, pray to Satan, subsist on a tablespoon of rice, sit in zazen for 5 hours per nor run 15 miles a day.

Make it something that YOU yourselves could and would follow. Of course, "true" seekers could do this right along with me.

Use this thread as a scratch pad and then finalize your ideas into a MAXIMUM of six rules and or disciplines.

You do NOT get to ask me about my current disciplines nor recommend any drug usage. I get to pick the starting date which will be within a reasonable timeframe. There will be no bullshit. If I fail or stumble or break a rule, I will note that. If I have unusual or mystical experiences I will also note that. I will keep subjective track of thoughts/feelings as to whether or not my life or outlook improves or changes.

If, at the end of this period, nothing transformational of note happens, then I will abandon any specific spirtual search; if positive, then I will continue in some fashion.

While I am a sometimes jokester, I am serious on this and hope you will treat this commitment with maturity.

Here is where the rubber meets the road. Ready - begin!  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068011 -

what a great post gonna think about it over night and see what i can come up with

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068018 -

wow you are a very committed soul


--------------------
:beakedwhale:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068020 -

does this mean you have no personal drive
yet you want personal attainment in 3 months?
sounds like externalization to me.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3068033 -

does this mean you have no personal drive
Guess those Olympic athletes that get a coach also have no personal drive?!

yet you want personal attainment in 3 months?
How many months is the "correct" period and how do you know this? Who here has gotten one step closer talking about aliens?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068038 -

hmmm mabey you could...

live out in the wilderness off of limited resourses
fast
meditate


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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068103 -

In my opinion, that's what's wrong with the "spirituality quest". Everybody wants a 10 step program or a two step program or whatever. They want dogma, orthodoxy and short cuts in general. And they think they have an idea of what lies at the end of the road.

Those ideas are our enemies. Just as the idea that it will take x years to achieve "enlightenment".

Not only will they lead to nothing (in my opinion), they also empower the systems that teaches dogma.

Everybody must find their own "truth".

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068133 -

Whats practicality and action and blather to you?
practicality and action - advancement in civilization
blather - god, spirits, aliens, mythic creatures etc?

please define them

here are some ideas

- Deep meditative trances
- Astral Projection
- On top of reading and applying buddhist knowledge to life etc
- Stay in a haunted house
- Call up a proffesional psychic
uhh thats all i have if you are interested in trying and want info PM me

these can muster quick results depending on dedication state of mind etc
but as previously stated there really is no instant way, very long and arduous journey

regards ooisi


--------------------
Im not loved because im worthy, Im loved because youre good - Matthew West (Good)

You never know, when and where the shrooms will grow.

Subaeruginosa Guide

Tinned Fish and Seafood Ratings

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068134 -

What is the point of this?
Do you somehow feel you have to prove yourself?
Perhaps if there were more people on the board like you you wouldn't need to do this.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068254 -

Six rules max hmm...

1. Abstain from sex and sexual actvity for the 3 months.
2.Abstain from drugs OTC and recreational for the 3 months.
3. Meditate an hour each morning in lotus position.
4. Abstain from overeating.(Eat until one is satisfied IE no longer hungry but not until one feels stuffed/over-full.)
5. Recite mantras/prayers nightly.(from your religion if you have one others find some.)
6. Avoid oversleeping.(7 1/2 to 8 1/2 hours a night is plenty for most everyone.)

This should at the least improve health and mood significantly during the 3 months and should calm ones mind and clarify it eventually.I personally follow these rules including periods of abstaining from sex/drugs.It allows the body to recover and heal.

This experiment should be interesting. :grin:


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068287 -

Wicked idea, I wish I had the discipline. My only suggestion is that you fit a good bit of every evening thinking about a different zen koan :P Call it an experiment in to sanity :smile:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068292 -

Swami said:
does this mean you have no personal drive
Guess those Olympic athletes that get a coach also have no personal drive?!

yet you want personal attainment in 3 months?
How many months is the "correct" period and how do you know this? Who here has gotten one step closer talking about aliens?


I think that the fabled milarepa sat outside the monastery for 14 months trying to prove his humble and sincere interest prior to being permitted in, no less prior to being taught anything of value.

though you may truly be interested, your display of humility is consistantly less than one might imagine to be respectful, or receptive, even if someone were here who could teach you something.

3 months, 3 years, 3 seconds, it is all the same.
when you are ready, you are ready.
and it won't be a challenge you provide to others, but one you privately take upon yourself.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068311 -

well, there's one system I've been using for a long time now that uses a very practical method in one section of spirituality, and that is achieving a state of bliss by being responsible for your own actions and feelings.  I'm sure you've heard of it before a couple of times on this board "handbook to higher consciousness, by ken keyes. you don't have to do anything special like go on a retreat, in fact, doing what you are doing now is the best teacher.

most of it is common sense such as

"in life, you win some and lose some"

and

"you do just as much damage when you take offense as when you give it"

but then it goes one step further and gives suggestions on how to  apply  it. 

so i mean, if you're really interested, it would yeild positive results!  however much you put in, that's how much you'll get out.

if you want me to put it in a nutshell I could, but it leaves a lot of the meaning behind.

1)  be imbeccable with your word.

2)  try your best not to impose your will (thinking with ego) on reality.  Reality will give and take away, so it is utterly futile to rely on it for your happiness, for most of the time it will yeild more frustration than joy.

3) recognize the type of feeling with it's root cause (the cause is you of course). example; anger, frustration, and jealousy are normally a part of the 'power center" of the mind.  note, that I quote the power center becasue it isn't meant to be taken literally, it's a label, and we use it to categorize, since we have a logical mind and all :wink:. 

4) when you feel a negative emotion, and recognize where it's coming from, realize then that (unles of course in extreme situations) your feeling negative will not help the situation, nor will it help you get passed it.  in other words, being efficient with what you do.


The book uses lots of catagorizing. therefore it uses repetition (the best way humans learn) and a logical framework the left side is good at.  this helps keep the rational mind working on the ego consciousl, it.  in other words, you'll be meditating constantly!

but even by this small system I described swami, I doubt you would see the results in three months.  Use that book on the other hand, if you really are into it, you will be able to see results, and best part of all, it all coems from you.

I keep notes, and I can display them for you if you'd like.  and if you are really into it, we can definately work on it together.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068323 -

Well what i would propose for the sake of experimentation is difficult and i dont know how possible in our society. I am not saying that this is the road to enlightment but it could offer some mystical experience by changing some neurochemistry parameters..No,no "drugs" involved.

In short,Light Deprivation (Now you start to se why it it difficult)

1)Have a fasting diet ,not only in quality but in quantity as well.I hope you like veggies
2)Enclose yourself in an enviroment for at least a week in the total absence of light.Toilet facilities should be easily accesible,also a caretaker must help providing you with food.
3)Wear no watch,dont try to calculate how logn you have been there (caretaker must help here)
4)Practice meditation while in this state

Please take in account that after the experiment you should be exposed to light gradually,and allow for some recovery period for your cicardian rythms to come back.Im not saying it is easy,it requires full devotion.more devotion that a wife might require :laugh:


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068371 -

Quote:
In this challenge, I will let the members design a program for me that I will commit to religiously for three months. I will keep a journal and report back at the end of the experiment. As you guys know, that while I type a lot, I am a firm believer in practicality and action over blather.


The all-knowing uber-Seuss needs to know a few more things before setting out on this adventure...

What do you wish to achieve...

(100% serious on the question. What is it that you want or expect from this?)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3068393 -

Quote:
...Everybody wants a 10 step program or a two step program or whatever... Just as the idea that it will take x years to achieve "enlightenment"... 



Without timetables and milestones, how can you claim progress toward enlightenment?

Quote:
Everybody must find their own "truth". 



If everyone is supposed to find their own "truth", possibly conflicting with others' "truth", then that invalidates truth, doesn't it?  Truth can't conflict with truth. :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068485 -

Ooops. Missed your entire thread about my idea. Nevermind. :grin:


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need that cash to feed them jones.

Edited by Teragon (08/30/04 09:57 AM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068537 -

In my opinion, the best chances for an actual Satori-like experience would be to attend a Zen sesshin. Of course this breaks your rule of not meditating all day long, but sesshin's often get startling results.

In order to grow spiritually, I think all major levels of being should be addressed. Of course the levels of being can be defined differently by different persons but Body/Mind/Soul/Spirit is a pretty universal break-up of the entire being.

Body - The more raw (living) fruits and vegetable the better. No meat, no dairy. Reduce cooked foods to whatever minimum you can handle. Daily cardiovascular exercise.

Mind - Affirmations (i.e. 'My heart is open and I am filled with love', 'I see all things clearly without judgement'...). Possible psychotherapy...just to clean out the closets.

Soul - Energy work like Tai Chi or yoga. Visualizations like the Loving Kindness meditation.

Spirit - 'Formless' meditation like Zazen or Dzogchen.

I think it would be possible to practice on each of these everyday and keep a normal schedule. I also believe that there would be definite possitive results through the entire being.

If you are interested in something like this I will commit to it along with you for three months (we can hammer out more of the details later).

P.S. We can drop the psychotherapy


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.

Edited by Source (08/30/04 10:07 AM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068592 -

That's nice. Applause for swami !
As you are a very rational mind, my suggestion (for one of the six points) is:
Find a very old aged human 'believer' every day, and ask them about their individual experiences with g*d and how they personaly noticed it was g*d they experienced. Emphasize your doubts and recognice their reactions and arguments.
Then take this into meditation every evening...

Just a personal suggestion from me to the jury.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3068902 -

I wanted to make a comment here. Weather this idea manifests or not, swami raises something important for all to consider by his challenge.

Consider how many things you are 'doing" or "believing" in on your personal spiritual path that is actually producing beneficial results for you.

When many start off, they say, "Oh, thats what spiritual people do and beleive in? Okay, I will to because I want to be spiritual." There's nothing worng with that as trial and error comes into play abnd evolutionary growth and conscious awakening comes from that.

Examine what it is you do and beleive in the name of your spiritual evolution and awakening. What is your personal motivation for beleiving in what you currently do or are doing ? How are you better off for it? Only your answer matters to yourself. Now and again, it is a good idea to question and challenge these things for yourself.

Typically, we make change in beleif or behavior when we find current ones are not serving us in what it is we desire to experience more of and when new informations comes into the picture that is deemed worthy of embracing.

Who knows what your motivation is for this swami. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and consider that after you told us you deleved into this spiritual stuff and found it of no service to you in the past, that you are wondering what all of the hub bub is yet about. You suggested that "maybe you missed something or didn't apply it the way it was meant to be."

Why can't it just be that you took what you wanted to from the banquet table that suited your taste and appetite and others are doing the same?

So what if you have a differing view from many? Our differing views is what keeps this joint jumping.

Bare in mind, a party can have a focal point of celebration, a purposeful reason for being but some people party without a reason and do it just because it feels good!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3069442 -

"No, I will not drink urine, pray to Satan, subsist on a tablespoon of rice, sit in zazen for 5 hours per nor run 15 miles a day"

You have already written off most of my suggestions without even getting started. Nothing that anyone recommends will affect you in the least. Your mind is set to it's mode already. You will just make fun of what ever anyone tells you because it will seem stupid. If you are not seeking you will not find. You seem to have already found that which you are after in terms of a personal ethic so you won't care for what most people will say. It would be cool, though, if you faked it and then told everyone you were a born again Christian or a Moonie.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3069443 -

I'm on the same page as Seuss.

What is the goal, Swami?

I'm not clear if you are trying for God-Realization (which is full time devotion, not 3 months), or a PATH to god-realization....or simply a path/plan of action that serves to develop the human spiritually.

I cannot show you a path that will give you god-realization (I have not achieved this), nor can I show you one that will ultimately give you god realization (I have not found it).

If you are looking for a path that will lead to god-realization, I suggest practicing Yoga. It is the truest, clearest path to union with god that I know of. I suppose the correct combination of dedication, applied to Kriya Yoga, Hatha Yoga, karma yoga, or another combination can bring you to that goal.



If you are looking for a Three month plan to change your life around, clear your mind, clear your body, make you pure and have a much stronger realization of self, I honestly can show a path that is authentic, and within your demands.


Which are you looking for?

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3069785 -

the key word is challenge
and it is not personal.
except if you accept it that way
which is inherently the reversal of tables.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3070317 -

you still haven't stated what you are trying to acheive with all this there isn't any steps that we can give to acheive what you want with the beleif system that you have at the moment, that something you might have to let go, well anyways here it goes,

physical
do some kind of physical activity for at least 30 minutes aday, conciously do it feel how you move and be in the moment
become a vegeterian or go on a vegeterian diet

hobbies
experience all things you are interested in but have not yet tried,

sex
practice tantra
to suppress sexual urges is to suppress your right to be human its our god right to experience sex not only will you benifit from this process your wife or girlfriend will too.

attitude
do not ask for anything or things that you can get or attain yourself.
let go of all past, resentment, anger, humility, all dark personalitites, shadows, of self and heal them. by accepting it loving it surrendering it and embracing it.
love everything about your being the bad and the good.
consciously love all people when you are out and about don't judge the people that you see or come across love them 1st or send them love. that includes all living things.
know that you are god or divine being in a human vessel.
question yourself everyday to see if you are awake or dreaming.
take a step on a higher platform in life and see all opportunities.
read everything you can about everything do not judge see that there is a possibility practicve every skill that you read on.

oh yeah obstain from the clock, drugs i mean all drugs, except if you have medical condition, electronics , tv and such mind numbing crap,

make long term and short term goals but don't plan it to every little detail
and don't be to focused on the goal just make sure you take atleast on step in the direction of your goal each day
there are more but thats it for now
you said not to much
its going to take longer then 3 months to experience what you are looking for

Edited by spudamore (08/30/04 05:52 PM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3070329 -

If you are looking for a path that will lead to god-realization, I suggest practicing Yoga. It is the truest, clearest path to union with god that I know of. I suppose the correct combination of dedication, applied to Kriya Yoga, Hatha Yoga, karma yoga, or another combination can bring you to that goal

supermarket i can atleast think of ten others that can obtain god realization,, there is no truest clearest path to union with god

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3070506 -

I have a practice for you, but you have to promise to follow it for 3 months. First maintain an outwardly pleasant demeanor, always saying hello, thank you, please, and have a nice day to those you meet as appropriate. Be forgiving of the errors of others and be forgiving of your own errors as well. Try to help others where you can. Every day try to do at least one thing totally for someone else for no motive at all. Be as honest as you can. Maintain a healthy diet, BUT don't totally abstain from things you like, have ice-cream or maybe a beer (or whatever else you like) occasionally. Never overindulge in alcohol...or entheogens for that matter. Do not smoke in a habitual fashion. Exercise for at least one hour a day. AND NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING. Do this for 3 months and you will deepen your spiritual connection with yourself, others, and nature. If you want a few freaky beliefs on the side...well that's cool, but still remember the important things (all the other stuff listed) above all else.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (08/30/04 09:44 PM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3080959 -

HOLY CHRIST ON A CRUTCH

1) you poeple don't give swami enough credit. you are all assuming all this health food excersize positivity meditatation blah blah blah will be something radically differnt from his current lifestyle.

2) Such a large amount of poeple offering only the smiley life make me sick
(however, i did think the suggestion of meditating in total darkness for a long time was hella cool, in fact i will do that someday)


swami, i suggest you earnestly attempt to do some form of out of body practice for an hour a day for three months. i think that would be hella cool.
or if you already are cool with the OOBE thing, i suggest you attempt to progress in telepathy/micro pk/remote viewing.

i think three months of swami remote viewing would be neat-o.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3080992 -

Hmmm.... my rough-shod recommendations for three months of spiritual growth would be (I am following these myself):

1) Meditate on a koan for a half hour or more every day (Joshu's Mu is usually considered first; but I find "Who am I? Who is it that sees/hears/thinks/etc?" to be more stimulating.
2) During your spare time,  keep your koan in mind. Become one with it; integrate it into working ("Who is it who flips burgers?"), leisure time ("Who is it who wastes time on the Internet?") etc. Question yourself relentlessly; resolve not to quit until you know your true Self.
3) Abstain from overeating, oversleeping, and excess in general.
4) Communicate only truth.
5) Refrain (as much as is possible) from making judgements.
6) Bear witness to the pains and joys of others' lives.

Always seek and question the truth and you cannot go astray. Peace be with you. :sun:


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3081171 -

Okay, so we are looking for a practice which is considered spiritual by many people, requires considerable effort & discipline (but not unreasonably much), and will lead to results within a three month period. In other words, we are talking about lucid dreaming here.

I suggest that Swami develops a habit of reality testing. There is a device called P.E.S.T. (Programmable Electronic State Tester) which was sold by the Lucidity Institute, which would be perfect for that purpose. I don't think it is still available, but a used one can probably be found on the net. However, it can also be done without that device. I suggest that Swami does a reality test about every fifteen minutes for three months. This is hard and requires discipline, but it can be done, and has probably been done by members of this forum. If Swami thinks this requires too much effort, we can lower the frequency of reality testing accordingly. I also suggest that he maintains a dream journal, and that he gets up each day after six hours of sleeps, stays awake for twenty minutes, and then goes to sleep again. After one month of this practice, Swami will have lucid dreams almost every night.

I further suggest that he does not use these lucid dreams for sensory pleasure, but that he tries to explore the dream world and do as many good deeds as possible. Being lucid, he will be able to heal the sick, feed the poor, offer help to any dream character in need, and so on. Any pleasure he derives from these dreams will be because of doing good deeds.

At the end of this three month period, Swami will try to do what has been done in lucid dreams before, even without such hard effort & good dream karma. He will, in a kind & humble way, adress whomever reigns over his dreamworld, and request that a past life be shown to him. He will then explore the details of the life shown to him and try to confirm it in real life.

This is a practice which requires effort, but is enjoyable. Progess can be easily monitored by posting lucid dreams. Swami would profit from it beyond the three month period, and the readers of this forum would profit too, because of an increase in motivation in their own lucid dreaming endeavors. The practice is in no way dangerous, does not require belief, and the existence of lucid dreaming (and reality testing as a way to master it) has been scientifically confirmed. The practice would lead up to knowledge of a past life, which in many religious traditions is considered a high spiritual attainment.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3081930 -

Hhm.... I will return with something.... sometime...... if I can think of anyting.... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3083763 -

Purpose: To get a glimpse of a "spiritual" dimension.

I have either:

a. Never felt the cosmic breath.

b. Have felt it and did not recognize it.

c. Have felt it recognized it and forgotten it.

I may be living in illusion that a. is true, but that is where I am currently at.

7 years as a strict vegetarian practicing yoga, pranayama and meditation made me healthier and more aware, but no glimpses of the divine or sense of purpose.

Do I expect enlightenement or nirvana or happiness ? No.

As to the 3-month timeline being "unreasonable"( that irony makes me laugh - think about it), a focused effort in ANY field will not lead one to being an expert, but improvement will CERTAINLY be noticed.

I will take to formulating my own rules and posting here.

During this time frame, I will do my best to suspend disbelief.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3083783 -

:goodluck:  :rudolph:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3084100 -

or go do a Melchizedek method course and practice that for 3 months

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3084566 -

cheers to the swami for coming up with a unique idea, and screw everyone whos reading a lot of bs into his motives. off the top i suggest a martial art of some sort (you'll need to find a good place that lets you spar). beyond that i guess ill give it some thought.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3084633 -

didnt see there was a second page.... now i'm with nomad. you should definitely try and cultivate your ability to lucid dream. thats a freaking excellent challenge that will certainly teach you SOMETHING. what i dont know. hell if nomad wants to elaborate, i'll take it on and keep a diary.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3084745 -

If you think some bullshit practice will lead to ultimate wisdom you are mistaken. How many people here posses it? I think you know this so what is the point. We are all living an illusion one way or another.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3084823 -

Swami, does the mind control you, or do you control the mind?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3085170 -

Nobody here has reached Ultimate Wisdom.

People see what they want to see. "I cannot be hypnotized" is the most powerful hypnotic suggestion of all.

A spiritual search needs not be a burden. If you let it all hang down the spiritual will manifest itself nontheless.

No spiritual mystical "wooowooo!" will swoop down on you because wonder and magic are swept aside like clouds from a nuke by rationalisation. For most people "magic" in practicality means a moment of bewilderment. You can defuse any bewilderment with a moment of rationality. Some spend most of their time in the "magical" side of existance while you pitched camp in the rational side of things.

If you want to experience the genuine article you should venture towards the spirital -from- your rationality, which is pick the "instructions" most suitable to you. By definition they must feel to be the most rational ones, since you are a rationality-dominated guy (bless you :heart:)

Oook here comes my discipline for you. It cannot be enlightenment-in-a-can but if you seriously adhere to it you will come out of it transformed, and the world around you equally so, so it would not be a waste of time. It's good the Swami wants to be a Disciple for a change, so let me lay down a discipline for you thats a challenge worthy of a mind of profound logic.

___________________________________________

1...TWICE DAILY: Si?sta from the life you live in (breaking the cycle)
When you are in the midst of your day (no quickies around bedtime) take two brakes to lie down comfortably, or at least recline, with your eyes closed in a least-intrusive enviroment. Ideally lie down naked in your bed in darkness.
Now listen to your thoughts for at least 20 minutes, but best 1/2 to 1 hour. In the early-day si?sta you're allowed to play a little witrh your thoughts, but in the later-day si?sta be totally passive and let them die down, get as close to falling asleep without falling in but this by shifting conscious activity towards passive listening to your mind.

2...TWICE A WEEK: meet Heaven and Hell
Twice a week, and this is the hardest part, seek out someone on either extreme of the human experience.
Once a week engage in a deep real-life conversation with someone who lives a life of the direst possible agony and once a week seek out somebody who is exceptionally happy. You will meet 13 people of either during the three-month course.
First and foremostly listen to their stories. These people (agony and ecstasy) are eager to unload on somebody who genuinely listens and tries to understand.
Try to come away from these encounters with an understanding about what they feel, what makes them go on and how they came to be like they are. At the same time try to let them come away from this encounter as a positive experience, try to really make a difference, like taking a homeless women & her kids to McDonalds to hear her out and genuinely be there, or talk with an elderly person in the process of dementia, or a kid with aids. The ecstatic people will not feel hurt not will the agonized people be offended that your care will likely be temporary. They know the way of the world.

3...TWICE A MONTH: the planned crisis.
Naturally you will have a lot to ponder by all this, just like prince Siddharta did on a similar journey that did not pop out of a can. To aggrevate things arrange for two crises a month where you spend a sleepless night (36-hour day) crunching your brain on how really, really understand the Human experience and how to alleviate all the suffering. Don't get sidetracked by quickie rationalisations sunconsciously aimed at landing your head on a pillow for sleep rather than Si?sta. Caffeine can help the mental turmoil unfold but is unneeded. (dont blow up your ticker or reality) As you slip into sleep deprivation delirium by the 36-hour day while crunching concepts you will be hit by moments of confusional "magic" but also with likely a few moments of deep insight that truely ventures beyond the rational-scientific mind, perhaps you might even make it into Visionary consciousness.
_____________________________________________

Well then! Don't need 6 steps. I could add things like you should buy a shotgun and chase and hunt your own raisins and oats for breakfast muesli, but just be moderate and in balance as your balance in things will be taxed hard enough as it is.

If you get with this program you will likely feel better about yourself, given other people a good feeling -and- you are highly likely to emerge from all this a transformed Swami with a "cosmic extra-causuality consciousness" approach added to your realm of experiences. And hey: it makes you a wiser granddad in some decades hence. How's about it Swami? Are you up to this challenge?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3085618 -

Swami --

That last post there? I caught what you're getting at, and I think a lot of the others may not have. Likewise I'm living in option A.

It's not Nirvana or a god-state, but simply something experienced that would prove to a nonbeliever in the spiritual or the divine? I hope I'm on mark with that -- that you're trying to get someone to come up with a way to cause you to believe without lying to yourself, or deceiving yourself?

Best of luck.. I'd offer advice, but I have none heading in that direction - only the other.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3086162 -

If you think some bullshit practice will lead to ultimate wisdom you are mistaken. How many people here posses it? I think you know this so what is the point. We are all living an illusion one way or another.
Huehuecoyotl how do you know have you tried????

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3088058 -

Swami, heres what i would recomend. I think you could seriously benefit from this and possibly have some cool trippy experiences. :wink:


For 3 months

Abstain from drinking more than a glass of red wine a day, and drink that at least 2 hours before going to sleep.

Keep a dream journal everynight, As you go to sleep repeat mentally 'i will remember and write down my dreams' and do so in maximum detail everymorning.

Read over your dreams periodically, and try to re-experience them in your head.

Practice Don Juans (carlos castaneda's) techniques of 'stopping the world' or stopping the internal dialouge, every day. Start with 20 minuites , work up to half an hour, and try to level off at an hour or 90 minuites a day after the first month, unless you feel you can do more.

Techniques: 1. sit in a comfortable cross legged position and listen. Close your eyes, relax and try to focus entirely on your auditory sensations. Anytime you notice a thought, return to listening.

2. Alternative: zen meditation of focusing entirely on the breath, in out, in out

if this is to hard at first, start with a week or two of TM, try the mantra OM MANI PADME HUM, or just OM.

Also: drink one or two cups of strong green tea a day, and at least 6 glasses of water a day.

Exercise to Perspiration ONce a day, or do 3 strong workouts a week, with breaks in between.

Also, really abstain from fast food, and limit sugar intake.

OTher important exercises:

Analyze your beliefs, constantly. Even your most basic and dear beliefs. Even those you have taken for granted for years.

Also analyze and change your habits and activities the same way. Realize the you are not a slave to your habits or your behaviours or your beliefs, any and all of them can be conciously changed. Anything that you feel guilts about, anything that you dont like, change it. Replace it with positive and beneficial beliefs activities and habits.

This will probably be the hardest requirement, as you may not even be able to identify your beliefs as beliefs, as you are so used to seeing them as obvious truths. Analyze them on the basis of how they are helping you, what effect they have on you. If they are negative, conciously try to change them.

Hard part: when you find a belief that makes you unhappy, eg. people are cruel or evil, you may say : well that makes me unhappy id like to change that. However, you will recall and have many experiences and peceptions that support your belief, and you will say 'well even though i dont like it it must be true' and you will fear that you are deluding yourself if you change the belief.

Try to realize that through a 3 step program of changing belief, changing action and refocusing attention (on positive things in your reality) your perceptions will change to match the new belief. Your very experiental reality will change.

Also important: over your 3 month period, read all the following, it should not be a heavy load for an intelligent literate like yourself. Reserve judgement, see them through, if you have problems with certain parts fine, but try to glean something from each book, and compare them.

the order is unimportant

Conversation's with God
The Crack in the Cosmic Egg
Don Miguel Ruiz: The four agreements, and the way to knowledge.
Seth: the nature of Personal Reality
Article: the Holographic Universe
Adam Smith: Power's of Mind
Carlos Castanedas books, specifically : The journey to Ixtlan, A Seperate Reality, and the other early works, but also note: Carlos castaneda's the Art of Dreaming

Numerous other books will also be usefull, but these are some good ones

Anyways do all that. And once every three days practice some form of stimulating kundalini energy, awakening or opening the chakras etc. Dont bother with this until you have done at least a month of the rest of this, otherwise preconceptions about its cheeziness or new ageiness will prevent progress.

LAst But Certainly Not least:

at the end of your 3 month period, take a 2 day vacation. Clear your schedule, disconnect your phone, attent to all immediate tasks and make sure you have some free time. Make sure you have abstained from hard drugs and psychadelics for a month previous. Do your daily exercises , meditations etc and have a light breakfast of fruit and veggies and green tea. Then Eat 6-8 grams of potent dried psilocybin and spend some quiet time in an area your find peacefull and where you wont be disturbed. Listen to music or do whatever you desire.

Reflect on your previous 3 months.

Ive done this, more or less, for much of the summer and the results were awesome. I think ill start a new cycle, and use this as my own guide, except that ill practice lucid dream techniques as well as just recall.

Peace, good luck

much love


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3088199 -

"Huehuecoyotl how do you know have you tried????"

I posses a shamanic world view and am a practicioner of a shamanic lifestyle. I feel I have benefitted from it immensely. What you are going to get is peace of mind and tranqulity in your soul. You are not going to get any "super powers" like xray vision or something. If you already have this peace then, of course, "If you think some bullshit practice will lead to ultimate wisdom you are mistaken." Swami stands to benefit nothing, and waste time because he don't have faith. It is not his path. There are many ways to the center.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3088574 -

it can lead to all these mind powers but one has to recognise that these can't be used for ones own benifits or just to be used for egos purpose i know of many people that can do some pretty out of it stuff.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3088583 -

Yes, this is true. It's all about the xinxiang. :cool:


--------------------


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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3089833 -

*chime*
ok, am i the only one who found this thread to be lacking?

no offense, but i'm quite dissapointed.

the community has lost a few points on my respect-o-meter.

is this the best we can come up with? someone poses a reasonable
request to be pointed to something, anything that might illustrate
the spiritual side of exsitence. this is something that everyone here
must have at the very least an interest in, but every response has ended up being something one would expect to hear from their high shcool P.E. teacher in health class.
1. change your diet, eat healthy
2. exercise, take care of your body
3. practice meditation, organize and understand your inner voices
(ok, not many P.E. teachers condone meditaion, but still this is very
superficial)
while these may all be great routines to fall into, i hardly
belive they are the answer to someone seeking proof of "something" exsisting beyond the boundries of everyday perception.

go vegan, eat organic vomit... this will make you potentially frail
and weak. one day you may become so light-headed you pass out in the
organic foods store and have a "spiritual experience".

climb on your treadmill and do tae-bo... the endorphin rush you recive may give you a buzz, allowing you to bypass Swam's no-drug rule and still feel good enough to forget about the everyday stresses of bills and bosses. without this work load you can focus on Slimer and whatever other spirits may occupy your apartment. your body will be fit and trim, you will be more attractive to the opposite sex, enabling you to fall in love with the partner of your dreams. this is truely an opportunity to experience some type of spiritual bond to another human being.

contort your body into various positions and be quiet for a while.
the body mechanics are really only to give you a physical sensation to associate with the processes going on in your head. with practice it may be possible to leave your body and travel to far away lands and meet supernatural beings. of course, where i come from we call this immagination, even "over-active immagination". it is truely amazing what you can convince yourself to belive with enough repetition. when i was younger i was petrified to go in the basement. it was inhabited by giant toes (yes, like on your feet) and for some reason they were out to get me. my parents couldn't see them, of course, because the existed on a plane beyond their reach. so i never went down there, except for in my mind, and every time, they were there to meet me, commiting unspeakable crimes against me and me alone.

don't get me wrong, each of these practices has it's advantages if done correctly, but as far as being signposts to other dimensions, they have just as much potential to be misleading as to be helpful.

so much talk, but where's my recomendations? i honestly don't know.
i've thought about this thread all day at work, and i don't think there's anything i can say to another human to explain why i have this irrational belief that there is something more to this world around me.

here is something that i personaly tend to notice.
i wait tables for a living. (selling my body for the change in old ladies purses)..... 10% is not a tip people!...
anyways
everyday it seems there is a universal "vibe" shared by almost every guest that comes in to eat. it is very hard to explain, and every day it is different, but no matter what random people come in ,there is a similarity between them all. call it a mood, or attitude, or energy, i don't know, but when i come into work, if i try, i can "feel" it. even before anyone sits down. and i'd say better than 90% of the people i serve that day will act accordingly. simplified, everyone will be happy, or sad, or rushed, or picky about their food, etc. so all day long these people will seriously follow the pattern.
... every table will want their checks seperated, or there will be one guy at every table that wants to pay for everyone, or i will go all day without a single person looking me in the face when they order. so trivial, i know, but it happens.

(gotta put this in too, this is not EVERY day, but it could be me just not being aware of the flavor of the day)

so what is influencing these people to behave so predictably?
i dunno, chalk it up to barrometric pressure, or weather systems, or gravitational fields, or the hostess greeting everyone the same way.
but, back in the day when lucy was availiable, my best friend and i would trip together at least 2-3 times a week. and we used to share this sense of being almost every time. talk of being on the same wavelength and such. we would connect on a level that is really hard for me to put into words. whatever happened to us during the course of the evening would usually be mutual. the visual patterns we would see were very similar to each other every time. my buddy referes to it as "the netting" just endless streams of whatever that connect and run through all parts of our bodies and the things surrounding us. even though it seemed to always move to the same rythm, everyday the patterns were new.
ok this very well may be that "over-active immagination" at work but i have this nagging suspicion there is some "realness" there somewhere.
today, if u ask him, my friend will tell you that lsd did not change him for the better or worse, we had some good times together and it would be fun to re-live the good-ole-days if we could just finds some.
i on the other hand have never stopped wondering what was actually going on, and if this "netting" surrounds us wether we notice it or not. does it influence us? or do we influence it?
i dunno
i don't even have a conclusion to tie these two random happenings together, but i think you all understand what i'm trying to say

the only difference between where i perceive my physical body to end and the air surrounding it is a change in molecules. solidity is an illusion, space fills the gap between everything. at a certain level everything can be passed through. there must be something holding it all realatively together, right? is individuality only the result of different perspectives on the same object?
blah
for all i know the "netting" is our perception of the earths magnetic field. and all our scientific laws explaing gravity and movement are feeble attempts to rationalize a spiritual exsistence.
or not
oops, i kinda did that wandering thoughts thing again, forgive me

do you want to find spirituality?
pay attention
question everything you think you're 100% sure of

and please throw down some unique thoughts on this thread,
this should be something that we can all contribute to, considering
where we are, everyone should have some vague reference to a time when they were inspired to see with their minds eye.
or we could just change the name of this board to just
"philosophy"

p.s. as always please forgive my spelling, i use big words to make it sound like i know what i'm talking about.

peace

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #3090002 -

"is this the best we can come up with? someone poses a reasonable
request to be pointed to something, anything that might illustrate
the spiritual side of exsitence. this is something that everyone here
must have at the very least an interest in, but every response has ended up being something one would expect to hear from their high shcool P.E. teacher in health class.
1. change your diet, eat healthy
2. exercise, take care of your body
3. practice meditation, organize and understand your inner voices
(ok, not many P.E. teachers condone meditaion, but still this is very
superficial)
while these may all be great routines to fall into, i hardly
belive they are the answer to someone seeking proof of "something" exsisting beyond the boundries of everyday perception.
"

fair enough, i expected someone might misunderstand my recomendations, so ill take some time explaining the importance of my choices. This is indeed a regime intended to show a side of the existance outside of our everyday perception, and it does that by breaking down the walls we have built that are limiting that perception in the first place. And yes the diet is important to, but its pretty basic and occasional lapses wont hurt you much. Eat what you want just try to limit booze, fast food, and pig outs on junk.


For 3 months

"Abstain from drinking more than a glass of red wine a day, and drink that at least 2 hours before going to sleep."

The reason i consider this important is that alcohol consumption near bedtime will inhibit dreaming, and i consider dreaming to be a crucial part of the spiritual quest. Why? because the spiritual quest is about expanding our perceptual limits and experiencing aspects of the world other than the limited mundane one we usually see. Dreams are an example of an entire level of reality we have often blocked out or lost. If we cant experience even that inherently present aspect of reality, how can we expect to move on to even greater dimensions?

Also, any use of drugs in a recreational sense tends to dull the mind to a degree and certainly can make concentrated effort towards enlightenment difficult. I am a big fan of drugs, but when making a directed effort it is good to temporarily abstain.

"Keep a dream journal everynight, As you go to sleep repeat mentally 'i will remember and write down my dreams' and do so in maximum detail everymorning.

Read over your dreams periodically, and try to re-experience them in your head."

again, i consider dreaming the logical first step in expanding the boundaries of our perception and experiencing the world more fully. Also, once dream recall is masterd lucid dreaming can be developed to unimaginable degrees, with great benefits. Obe's can also be experienced through that medium.

"Practice Don Juans (carlos castaneda's) techniques of 'stopping the world' or stopping the internal dialouge, every day. Start with 20 minuites , work up to half an hour, and try to level off at an hour or 90 minuites a day after the first month, unless you feel you can do more.

Techniques: 1. sit in a comfortable cross legged position and listen. Close your eyes, relax and try to focus entirely on your auditory sensations. Anytime you notice a thought, return to listening.

2. Alternative: zen meditation of focusing entirely on the breath, in out, in out

if this is to hard at first, start with a week or two of TM, try the mantra OM MANI PADME HUM, or just OM."

These techniques our crucial for spiritual awakening. We all live in a reality that is hugely limited by our own self imposed beliefs and restrictions. These are often lies and programming from outside people and sources that we have, through years of training, internalized. This internal voice runs incessently, and constantly reminds and reinforces our perception of reality. It can also be annoying. By first controlling (through mantra meditation) and later stopping (through zazen and shamanic techniques) this internal voice we take the first step to freedom from self imposed programming, and also towards total control over our own internal states, which is nescessary for freedom from negative feelings and habits.

"Also: drink one or two cups of strong green tea a day, and at least 6 glasses of water a day."

green tea is a powerfull antioxidant, that helps neutralize chemicals and toxins in the bloodstream. Sound trivial? fine, but i tell you honestly, if your body is clutterd, unhealthy and polluted, the higher functions of mind will be dulled and impeded. When the body feels good, the mind is clear. Also, when one seeks spiritual wisdom one cant help but learn respect for the body, which is our temporary vessel for the soul. Spirituality should enhance enjoyment of life, and that it is hinderd by a sickly body.

"Exercise to Perspiration ONce a day, or do 3 strong workouts a week, with breaks in between.

Also, really abstain from fast food, and limit sugar intake."

again, when the body stagnates or is poorly fed, the mind feels crappy. When the body is well exercised , the mind is clear for higher functions. One simply cannot seperate the parts of man, the healthy human is one where all the parts are equally balanced and integrated, physical health, spiritual development and mental strength. A strong body is just a good thing to have, and it is much easier to meditate when the bodys nervous energy is expended. Also helps sleep and dreaming.

OTher important exercises:

"Analyze your beliefs, constantly. Even your most basic and dear beliefs. Even those you have taken for granted for years.

Also analyze and change your habits and activities the same way. Realize the you are not a slave to your habits or your behaviours or your beliefs, any and all of them can be conciously changed. Anything that you feel guilts about, anything that you dont like, change it. Replace it with positive and beneficial beliefs activities and habits.

This will probably be the hardest requirement, as you may not even be able to identify your beliefs as beliefs, as you are so used to seeing them as obvious truths. Analyze them on the basis of how they are helping you, what effect they have on you. If they are negative, conciously try to change them.

Hard part: when you find a belief that makes you unhappy, eg. people are cruel or evil, you may say : well that makes me unhappy id like to change that. However, you will recall and have many experiences and peceptions that support your belief, and you will say 'well even though i dont like it it must be true' and you will fear that you are deluding yourself if you change the belief.

Try to realize that through a 3 step program of changing belief, changing action and refocusing attention (on positive things in your reality) your perceptions will change to match the new belief. Your very experiental reality will change."

This is possibly the most important stage in the spiritual journey, and it is one that lasts a long time, maybe your whole life. It is a process of redifining yourself and your reality from a position of power rather than slavery. It is crucial for full enjoyment of life and spiritual realization.

"Also important: over your 3 month period, read all the following, it should not be a heavy load for an intelligent literate like yourself. Reserve judgement, see them through, if you have problems with certain parts fine, but try to glean something from each book, and compare them.

the order is unimportant

Conversation's with God
The Crack in the Cosmic Egg
Don Miguel Ruiz: The four agreements, and the way to knowledge.
Seth: the nature of Personal Reality
Article: the Holographic Universe
Adam Smith: Power's of Mind
Carlos Castanedas books, specifically : The journey to Ixtlan, A Seperate Reality, and the other early works, but also note: Carlos castaneda's the Art of Dreaming

Numerous other books will also be usefull, but these are some good ones"

These books helped me alot, and more than that they were insturmental in helping me organize and formulate my own revelations about the nature of life. Reading between the lines of these diverse works, comparing and contrasting, can really help comprehension of the divine principle... anyways just read em is all i can say

"Anyways do all that. And once every three days practice some form of stimulating kundalini energy, awakening or opening the chakras etc. Dont bother with this until you have done at least a month of the rest of this, otherwise preconceptions about its cheeziness or new ageiness will prevent progress."

This technique is simply intended to help move the vital energies upward through their various manifestations, alternatively think of it as moving or rearanging your concious state or perceptual structure.

We know that conciousness can take many forms, from the nearly robotic survival mechanism of the more basic lifeforms, to the intense intellectual logic of the engineer or mathematician, to the emotional mind of the lover or poet, and even to the divine bliss of the sage or mystic. What this means is that within the human mind are numerous possible forms of perception, all of which are open to us, unaided by drugs. The kundalini meditation allows us to control and balance these states, for a more harmonious, complete experience of ourselves and our lives. It prevents us from being stuck in one state and missing out on the whole spectrum

LAst But Certainly Not least:

"at the end of your 3 month period, take a 2 day vacation. Clear your schedule, disconnect your phone, attent to all immediate tasks and make sure you have some free time. Make sure you have abstained from hard drugs and psychadelics for a month previous. Do your daily exercises , meditations etc and have a light breakfast of fruit and veggies and green tea. Then Eat 6-8 grams of potent dried psilocybin and spend some quiet time in an area your find peacefull and where you wont be disturbed. Listen to music or do whatever you desire."

The reason i say this? the previous 3 month program is a method of loading your mind with important knowledge and training your body and soul with practice and exercise. This will give you all the tools you need break out of our current state of limited reality, but fully escaping the illusion takes immense strength. I find that the mushroom acts as a catalyst, helping to form connections and further understanding of all the knowledge youve been storing and present it perceptually as a unified whole. They help temporarily break down our self limiting programs, and once that is done you never quite forget what it teaches you, even once the drug itself wears off.

The power of plant allies is enormous, when wisely used,and their is a reason nearly all shamanic traditions and religions use psychadelics or have used them in some way.

Again, the previous 3 months act as a loading period and ensure that the trip will be spiritual, enlightening and not just fun or frivolous.

All this is based on my own observation. Results may vary.

Also, i dont advocate vegetarianism, although i do advocate getting most protein from fish sources and vegetable sources. Fish is simply the healthiest and most delicious of the meats in my oppinion

much love


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3091795 -

"it can lead to all these mind powers"

What powers do you happen to posses? And for Moonshoe: diet, exercise, and meditation are an excellant suggestion. Look guys, spiritual enlightenment is totally subjective. To think you are going to suggest a practice to an unwilling person and that they are going to experience enlightenment is foolish. This whole thread was posted as a joke by a person looking for a target to focus his scorn upon. I am not knocking Swami as his attitude uncovers much truth, but he is just looking for more ammo here.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3092474 -

please read the post again
it can lead to all these mind powers
there is a wide range of mind powers some of them that we already hold some of them have uses some don't they are just merely tricks
i have had glimpses of these useless powers but thats all none that i yet can control
a person that is living a shamanic exsistence should know of these powers aswell.

Edited by spudamore (09/04/04 07:06 PM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3092806 -

I think asking others for ideas of how to glimpse the world that you are seeking is a wrong first step. Not to say that you are depending upon them, because i know that is not your way.

But it is definately the blind leading the blind. How many times does the word meditation come up in this thread? Why meditation? Its become a pop-culture thing rather than a practice, and i would posit that its completely unnecessary...but those are my beliefs, and you have yours, just as everyone else has them. If meditation wasnt such a large part of eastern philosophy id bet that barely anyone would practice it. The foreign element in eastern philosophy intrigues us, and along with their belief structures make alot of us feel they know something we dont.

What did i do to experience some side of the spiritual? I grew up catholic, and i used to pray nightly that i would be shown some kind of sign that there was something more to the world. I never got an answer, and i delved into materialistic philosophy and neuroscience, etc, and dilluted myself into the closed circuit of physical causation. But have you ever heard that joke about the guy who is on top of his roof while his town is being flooded? he prays and prays to god for help, while a rescue boat, a log, and a helicopter all come to get him. He refuses them all and says that "My god will save me." Well, he dies and god tells him after being questioned as to why he didnt save him , "I sent you a rescue party, a log, and a helicopter, what the hell else did you want?". The point in that is i may have been praying all those years for some kind of a spirituality to come into my life, but the answer was in front of my face the entire time...i just wasnt ready to see it yet.

In terms of your personal search, Swami, i wish you all the luck in the world. But i believe this thread will get you absolutely nowhere.

The only answer is within yourself. Through a diversity of views on the world, clarity and peace of mind can be achieved, because you rise above the ruckus of self-assured and inflexible views. When one is ready to delve most intimately into the self, with no reservations, fears, or expectations, i believe the answers will come. If you call that meditation, then fine, but i absolutely hate that label...I believe its full of socially constructed bullshit.

Not trying to rain on any parade, i'm just stating my views on this thread, and once again, wishing you luck Swami.

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Kremlin]
    #3092936 -

Meditation, like anything else, is only a tool.

However, its a tool that is more or less unparalleld in effectiveness. Thats why so many traditions (gnostic, christian, jewish, and shamanic as well as eastern buddhism, zen and hindu) have adopted some form of it.

Your idea that people advocating meditation indicates "the blind leading the blind" is senseless.


"The only answer is within yourself. clarity and peace of mind can be achieved, because you rise above the ruckus of self-assured and inflexible views. When one is ready to delve most intimately into the self, with no reservations, fears, or expectations"

meditation is one of the best ways to do this, so im not sure what you disagree with


"but i absolutely hate that label...I believe its full of socially constructed bullshit"

thats wierd. How so?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3093177 -

I do not prefer the word "powers" as it reminds me of super-heroes who are fictional. I do, however, understand natural ability. Mystical experience can increase the will making one more effective in many ways. I have had experiences that would fall under the heading of "psychic", but because these are sporadic occurences with no fact backing them up I hesitate to recommend spiritual practice to one on the grounds that they will perfect these abilities. Mental peace and harmony with nature are far more valuable results than psychic phenomenon. I follow a shamanic lifestyle which includes staying as close to PRACTICAL truth as much as possible. "Truths" that have little practical value may as well be false. I hope this clarifies my position.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3093263 -

I wasnt saying that meditation is the blind leading the blind, i was saying that asking others for what is only in oneself and needs to be discovered by onesself is pointless.

And i know that meditation is used by many different religions, and not just eastern.  I was focusing on eastern because it always has some mystical appeal that comes inherant.

My post was kind of scrambled because i got interrupted while making it, but what i was trying to say is that people always turn to others when it comes to these self-discovery type of things, and my personal belief (just as everyone has their own, i was just sharing mine, not telling people they are wrong) is that the only place that you can turn is inside.  The problem i had with meditation is that it has been raped of all it was ever by our society.  Now its the "new-age" thing to do, and thousands of people who are just looking for answers in the wrong places turn to it to be that image, etc.  That is what disgusts me.  The practice itself doesnt, and i didnt mean to convey that message.

I'm havin a bit of trouble formulating what i was thinking, so bear with me :smile:.  At the beginning of my post i criticized meditation, but i didnt mean to hit the practice so much, as the way that it was being suggested.  Time to oneself to reflect and let the mind emtpy is never a bad thing...its the pretexts to which it is being performed under that i have a problem with today.


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3093532 -

i didn't say the word powers you were the one that brought it up

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3093648 -

"it can lead to all these mind powers"

This references powers. This is your quote. The word powers is used. It was your words. I say again "What powers do you posses?" Also, what do you define as "pretty out of it stuff". You are nitpicking to avoid answering.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3094054 -

"I posses a shamanic world view and am a practicioner of a shamanic lifestyle. I feel I have benefitted from it immensely. What you are going to get is peace of mind and tranqulity in your soul. You are not going to get any "super powers" like xray vision or something. If you already have this peace then, of course, "If you think some bullshit practice will lead to ultimate wisdom you are mistaken." Swami stands to benefit nothing, and waste time because he don't have faith. It is not his path. There are many ways to the center."


i was only refering to how you used the word

This references powers. This is your quote. The word powers is used. It was your words. I say again "What powers do you posses?" Also, what do you define as "pretty out of it stuff". You are nitpicking to avoid answering

i don't need to say anything to satisfy your or my ego its there and have experienced it at times and use many others for self healing and healing others that want to be healed.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3094641 -

I'd like to know just out of plain curiosity, what pretty out of it stuff can some people do. I am assuming nothing before you talk. I just want to know. :smile: Answer in PM if you will not here. :smile:

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3095298 -

So how can anyone tell what you are referencing if you will not explain? The fact is, though, the mental benefits are peace and harmony...you won't become one of the super-friends or the X-Men.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3095484 -

so any plan on swamis part to do anything?
or have you changed your mind?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3095614 -

This whole thread was posted as a joke by a person looking for a target to focus his scorn upon. I am not knocking Swami as his attitude uncovers much truth, but he is just looking for more ammo here.

Actually, no. This is sincere and one of the "lessons" to readers was the all-too-often jumping to conclusions. I will amalgamate the ideas presented here in a form that I understand and can follow. This will be an actual experiment. I contend that no one changes from talking, reading, or thinking, without action.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: repemon]
    #3096300 -

I'd like to know just out of plain curiosity, what pretty out of it stuff can some people do. I am assuming nothing before you talk. I just want to know

you'll most likely know of the one that have no benifit such as
levitation
bi location
invisiblity
teleknesis
ones with benifits
menifestation
telepathy
energy manipulations
soul travel
many more

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3096544 -

That is bullshit, though, because without an essential faith in the usefulness of the spiritual technique you will have no useful results. Then, let me predict, you will post that you underwent the process and recieved no benefit and that it is total BS. Without faith you will waste your time. Spiritual practice is wholly dependant on faith until you recieve the results...which will be negative without the initial faith which you have said time and again you do not have. The results of spiritual practice are totallyt subjective to the person involved, and no two people will achieve the exact same result. I am not accusing you of being dishonest or even of being an asshole, I am just saying that you are set up for failure before hand and will use the result to fuel further attacks on these things because they are not part of your current world view.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3096599 -

"you'll most likely know of the one that have no benifit such as
levitation
bi location
invisiblity
teleknesis
menifestation
telepathy
energy manipulations
soul travel"

While a few of these things have a small amount of merit, they are for the most part supreme expressions of self importance on the part of the person making the claim. Swami will hand out big bucks to anyone who shows him one of these things first hand and on demand. I already know the story, though, "I won't cheapen my ability by showing it off or accepting money for it." I aleady heard it too many times from basement "Shamen" and living room "Gurus". I have studied shamanism intensely for 11 years and will tell you that it's most powerful benefit is a heathy body and peace of mind. So, you are correct. These things have no benefit.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/06/04 08:43 PM)

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3096637 -

i have seen them done some from the list others that or not there, and experience some aswell, these people need no money, and love their life as just as they are. there are other practices beside shamanism that you might need to look for and experience. don't limit yourself just to one practice

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3096693 -

"these people need no money, and love their life as just as they are"

That is what I mean. If these things were true phenomenon they would be science not conjecture. While spirit travel is THE cornerstone of shamanism, it is a symbolic process that will not produce empirical results. It will only have meaning for the traveller. The results it produces are useful, but they are highly subjective according to the individual. It's ultimate goal is healing the spirit and mind. The spirit is much more subtle than this. The rabbit hole is much deeper than cheap, parlor tricks.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #3096707 -

Quote:
everyday it seems there is a universal "vibe" shared by almost every guest that comes in to eat. it is very hard to explain, and every day it is different, but no matter what random people come in ,there is a similarity between them all. call it a mood, or attitude, or energy, i don't know, but when i come into work, if i try, i can "feel" it. even before anyone sits down. and i'd say better than 90% of the people i serve that day will act accordingly. simplified, everyone will be happy, or sad, or rushed, or picky about their food, etc. so all day long these people will seriously follow the pattern.
... every table will want their checks seperated, or there will be one guy at every table that wants to pay for everyone, or i will go all day without a single person looking me in the face when they order. so trivial, i know, but it happens.

(gotta put this in too, this is not EVERY day, but it could be me just not being aware of the flavor of the day)

so what is influencing these people to behave so predictably?
i dunno, chalk it up to barrometric pressure, or weather systems, or gravitational fields, or the hostess greeting everyone the same way.




are you sure it isn't just you?

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3096750 -

If these things were true phenomenon they would be science not conjecture.

can you or science fit or transform infinite into finite????


The results it produces are useful, but they are highly subjective according to the individual. It's ultimate goal is healing the spirit and mind. The spirit is much more subtle than this. The rabbit hole is much deeper than cheap, parlor tricks.

you don't think i already know that??

many of these things can take one off of there path of spiritual healing

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3097865 -

1. Fix clearly in your mind that you have done wrong things
2. Ask God for forgiveness
3. Ask God to reveal himself (/son) to you
4. Read the bible every night
5. Pray every night
6. Find and attend a good chuch


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3097922 -

haha

best one so far

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3098606 -

oh yeah, and start dating a born again evangelical.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3099139 -

I am then allowed to do "the naughty" so that we can feel guilty and repent together?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3099222 -

Swami said:
I am then allowed to do "the naughty" so that we can feel guilty and repent together?


Well... erm, well yeah, pretty much. 

I gather that you're hip to the naughty.  :blush:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3099765 -

In my humble oppinion all the 'powers' or abnormal experiences you can have on the spiritual quest kick ass, but you have to enjoy them as and when they come. For myself its not under my concious control.

For example, ive experienced Precognition once on a shroom trip, and it blew my mind, also on two other occasions i had definite experiences of precognition, but they always came without any concious effort or warning.

Also, ive experienced bi-location, in as far as seeing my own body from the outside, also randomly occured without my prompting.

And a wierd experience of having every muscle in my body stretched to their limits, than like a 'click' and i swear to god i was an inch taller.

Soul Travel? im not sure how to diferntiate this from the OBE, and its hard enough to differentiate the OBE from the lucid dream, but yeah at least ive had almost nightly experiences of conciously exploring the infinite realms of my internal mind/reality.

But yeah i definetly agree these are wierd side products that for me at least crop up at random, and are not exactly under my control, so the best thing to do is sort of enjoy them and just move on.

And yeah the best reliable benefit is a healthy mind and body, and for shamanism the direct experience of contact with the other. (the Nagual)


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100277 -

I would be careful about throwing around to many Castaneda terms (Naugal) as he misused the term. It is actually a Huichol term for a shapeshifter that tranforms into a wolf. Not that there is not any relevant info in his books, but they are primarily thought provoking entertainment, his works should not be considered a shamanic reference. A much better guide would be "Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstacy" by Mircea Eliade Check it out here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0691119422/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0761842-9062433#reader-page
Soul travel is the shamanic journey experienced by shamans around the world to various degrees. It is an intense visualization technique similar to astral projection, and it is used for obtaining knowledge from the spirit world. Actually it would be closer to remote viewing than astral projection as it requires some imagination. Shamanism is a great tool for self guidance and healing.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3100417 -

perhaps more than one group used the name, or it had more than one meaning?

either way i find the Don juan use of the term clear:
The tonal is our current, limited and illusory view of reality, created by our personal paradigms of as Don Juan puts it the location of our displacement point, what we hook our attention on etc. This is our way of 'looking at the world'

The nagual is everything that lies outside our current worldviews limits, the nagual is beyond our verbal systems to describe, and can be paralleld to the Tao. Shamanism consists of techniques that help break a crack in the tonal to let in the ineffable nagual.

As described by his metaphor with the tablecloth in journey to ixtlan.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100602 -

Has it been three months yet?


--------------------
peace sells but whos buyin?

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100698 -

While many of Carlos' ideas about shamanism are quite correct, his terminology was wholly invented from mixing Native American terms and even using invented terms altogether. He took influence from the "Tao Te Ching" as freely as he did from Native American shamanism. It was after all (as Swami has taken great pains to remind me) fiction, but very inspiring it is. I am very familiar with his works (I read most of his books twice, but I read Journey to Ixtlan 6 times and I read The second Ring of Power 5 times), and I am also knowledgeable of world shamanism, having spent over 11 years in it's study and 9 years in practice. I have also had contact on a meaningful level with two shamen of differing experience. I feel my assertion that Castaneda's terms were also Castaneda's inventions is correct.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3113029 -

so... is this going to happen?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3113204 -

Huehue touched on a word, the most important word here and that is "Subtlety"

You can do this stuff until you are blue in the face and not get much until you can percieve hyper dimensionally. All of the cool stuff supporting and explaining the mechanics of this plane happens in the other dimensions. Making the connections is a very subtle experience. It's only through confirmation and consistancies that the subtleties become profound to the one experiencing them.

Have most of you noticed that when you go to bring what was profound for you into words that it looses at least 90% of it's awe to the listener? It is personal to the perceiver.

I think if anyone wants to pick their game up a step, the first thing to do is to develop your extra sensory perception.

BTW Swami, that little girl hasn't even been born yet. I was being shown a probable future scenerio for you. I did accept that you couldn't place her in your life. I also know what I saw related to you and won't concede on that. So I asked her who she was and why you didn't know her. She said, "I havn't been born yet silly".


I'm still a work in progress!

I like what you said about needing to have faith in all of this before results even begin to show up huehue. Without the faith, the results may appear and you will miss them entirely or write them off.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3113319 -

if you really want to do this I have a very simple method thats harder then it sounds. find time to set aside 1 hour (latter you may want to add more time but an hour is a good start) Make shure you are well rested and you have not eating anything recently (don't be hungry just try not to have energy going to digestion) Find a comfortable spot to sit any method of sitting will work chair lotus what ever is comfortable but not too relaxed. and clear you mind of everything dont think about it being black don't have the internal dialoge most of us have Work on not thinking if something comes into your mind let it go. it will be hard at first but stick with it not thinking is one of the hardest things for us to learn becuse we've been taught the other way since birth "I THINK THERE FOR I AM" try to stick with "I AM" the only rules I can come up with are
1. Do not hear - with your ears or otherwise no talking in your head
2. Do not see - closeing your eyes helps but even then you will "see" stuff in your head let it go don't force it away just relax to emptyness
3. Do not Feel - relax let your awarness of your body dift away this is important you won't have much luck if your body keeps makeing you think about it.
4. Do not Think - this is the last part you will get to after you mastered the other three and in many ways the hardest your mind will get bored with the lack of imput and will wander let it but anything that it comes up with MUST be let go so you can continue to drift in nothingness

sort of a Zen method but I find it works and the lest you should find is a much calmer self the interesting part will be when you can not think as you go about life you notice a lot more around you when not looking inward listening to your own thoughts

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