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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The Swami Feelings Challenge
    #2344240 - 02/17/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Anonymous poster: I know stuff for which I have no evidence cuz it "feels "right.

Swami: Are your feeling ALWAYS right?

AP: Well, no, *brightens* but I know when they are!

Editor's note: If "yes", PM me and we will make a fortune together!

Swami: So you can tell ahead of time when your feelings that guide you are wrong?

AP: No, that's not what I meant.

Swami: Well take your time. There is no pressure.

AP: Well some things I just "know" are true.

Swami: OK, how is that?

AP: Because I can feel it.

Swami: But you already told me that your feelings are unreliable.

AP: Yeah, but...

Swami: OK, you win, I am exhausted.  :rolleyes:

Editor's note: This is the first challenge that Swami has ever lost due to forfeiture.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344257 - 02/17/04 02:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's not just about "feelings".    :rolleyes:

I've read a lot, seen a lot, experienced a lot, studied a lot.  Call  it "evidence".

The amount of evidence that I have discovered, over the years, would be too innumerable to try to recite it all here. 

But I have taken the evidence and assimilated it into what I believe today.  My "feelings" are that I'm right in what I believe. 

Of course, I could be wrong.  :grin:  But I don't think so.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinesykobish
ProfessionalPsycho - JTOKREW
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Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 17,805
Loc: Toronto, eh?
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344291 - 02/17/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You guys don't like each other much, do you?

Either that, or you're married. :grin:


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344296 - 02/17/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldnt anything one feels inside themself be considered valid? You can disprove it, and because its THEIR world, they can know things about themselves which you cannot. Which would probably make any argument about what one feels about their life irrelevant. Like whether someone likes chocolate, thats like asking them, why do you like chocolate? Because it tastes good. Why does it taste good..."cause i like it asshole!"
but i think what you meant to say anyway... was EXTernal data... like whether their are goafers under my house. Saying that i feel it doesnt really make a difference, cause i cant really show you how i feel it, thats a different story all together. It could easily be verified by examining under the house for a goafer hole. simple as that. right?

Well there are other things, which are in my opinion, completely pointless to argue about. The only thing worth bringing up in arguments such as this, are about peoples methods, and maybe how those methods apply to whatever kind of point you want to get across. For instance whether god exists or not, or gaia, or whatever.

Is there some kind of a definition for this mess?


--------------------
What?


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: sykobish]
    #2344302 - 02/17/04 02:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Whatever gave you either idea!  :lol:

Seriously, I have great respect for Swami and the other skeptics on this forum.  I have had my mind changed a couple of times as a result of some of the discussions here.

But I seriously consider all evidence, even evidence contradicting my beliefs, and no one has said anything yet of enough value to cause me to change my beliefs in God, spirits, reincarnation, etc.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: sykobish]
    #2344305 - 02/17/04 02:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Either that, or you're married.

Invitations are going out next month. PM me with your address...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2344322 - 02/17/04 02:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldnt anything one feels inside themself be considered valid?

Subjectively, but not objectively. A redneck may think blacks are sub-human, but that doesn't make it true any more than a feeling about the after-life makes it true.

Don't mix preferences (chocolate) up with beliefs.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesykobish
ProfessionalPsycho - JTOKREW
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344335 - 02/17/04 02:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I can understand completely where you are going with that. I don't really think being racist is an opinion tho.. So I don't see how the two can be compared. I believe it to be more of an inborn trait.. or a condition. A condition meaning the way you were raised. Yes, racists do believe that they are right. But is it really opinion based? Or is it something they are accustomed to because of their surroundings or an inborn trait?

Opinions are defined by thought and collectiive input from several sources, not something we are born into understanding as a way of life.


--------------------
I would rather have had one breath of her hair, one kiss from her mouth, one touch of her hand, than eternity without it. One.
-={Nite-Crew}=-

*-_Thread_Jacker_-*
To love is to admire with the heart; to admire is to love with the mind. - Th?ophile Gautier.
Seek not every quality in one individual - Confucius.
Global Living Space


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344466 - 02/17/04 04:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know people who feel no need to question their own beliefs. I'm not sure if they're wise or stupid.

There are some things which I feel in my heart to be true... Some of these I have proved to my own satisfaction. It may not be possible to prove it to yours ("A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still").

I truly believe that the only way to come to a true understanding of anything is to approach a debate with humility and the knowledge that you may not be right. If you enter a debate totally convinced of your own opinion (and wishing only to convince others), you're unlikely to learn very much...


--------------------
Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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InvisibleMal_Fenderson
Space Monkey

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344507 - 02/17/04 05:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, hrmm.
I dunno.
I think the best example of something that I feel is true but can't prove that it is necessarily true is A | ~A.

That is, for any given proposition, P, P is either true or P is either false. Non-contradiction. I mean, I can't quite fathom how it could be false, but is that just a limitation of my fathoming-system, or is it because it is a necessary sort of truth?

I wonder what the implication here is for what I ought to think about mathematics...

Oh, so many wonderful things to read, least of which is stuff for metaphysics on Holes. Yep, an analytic treatment of the "hole"! Suddenly the thought of going on to grad school in this wacky arena doesn't sound so bad...


--------------------
----
"Better Dead than Red."


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2344649 - 02/17/04 08:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Intuition is a valid non-logical information gathering tool. :wink:

On the other side, I have met many people in my life who are dead wrong about something because of flaws in their logical reasoning. Does this mean that logic should be entirely discarded as a source of decision-making?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 9 days, 11 hours
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: sykobish]
    #2344675 - 02/17/04 08:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sykobish said:
I can understand completely where you are going with that.  I don't really think being racist is an opinion tho.. So I don't see how the two can be compared.  I believe it to be more of an inborn trait.. or a condition.  A condition meaning the way you were raised.  Yes, racists do believe that they are right.  But is it really opinion based?  Or is it something they are accustomed to because of their surroundings or an inborn trait?

Opinions are defined by thought and collectiive input from several sources, not something we are born into understanding as a way of life.




Hehe, well, opinions are held regardless of how much thought has been put into them... the difference is whether or not the opinion is well-formed. :wink:

I wouldn't call anything an inborn trait... I don't understand your usage of the word condition. Everything about a person is as a result of their surroundings. How we judge new input is as a result of surroundings, like you said, how we were raised.

I don't know what exactly I am trying to get at... I just didn't like the word "condition". It makes it sound as if it is okay to hold racist beliefs, or blaming it on the way one was raised and then accepting that... that closes one off from new experiences shaping ones views. Like meeting a black man that saves your life or something. hehe

*shrugs* I have a feeling I've gone off my rocker....  :nut:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2345079 - 02/17/04 11:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How did i go off topic? I asked a question, the chocolate was subjective. can you objectively prove whether you like chocolate or not? Why would you need to? Someone can believe what they want, and make it right for THEM, but on the outside, what makes their thoughts so, may not be so right. Thats beliefs. I was talking about personal desires, and things that one understands for themselves, on the inside, like love, or chocolate, or whatever.


--------------------
What?


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: trendal]
    #2345119 - 02/17/04 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Intuition is a valid non-logical information gathering tool.

On the other side, I have met many people in my life who are dead wrong about something because of flaws in their logical reasoning. Does this mean that logic should be entirely discarded as a source of decision-making? 




Silly rabbit,

People can make mistakes in their logic but it doesnt invalidate the practice of logic.  However, if even one person makes a mistake in their intuition, then intuition is an invalid method and doesnt really exist.  :smirk:


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2345164 - 02/17/04 12:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oh well then! I see the error of my ways :wink:

:lol:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2345925 - 02/17/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I believe in the scientific method because it feels right.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2345939 - 02/17/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know what you are saying, BUT

When I take a multiple choice test, and I don't know the answer to a specific question, sometimes I have a feeling that I know the right answer, and MOST OF the time, I am right.

I agree with you that this doesn't extrapolate into spiritual matters or life and death decisions.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2346063 - 02/17/04 04:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Feeling is the benchmark of existence, whether objectively validated or not it forms the bedrock of each individual's consciousness. That is all that matters, because it makes the world of the individual alive; as well as making the world of culture very real. And this validates the feelings of the member/feeler in a way that makes undeniable sense to that individual.

Events in a life are part of spiralling chainreactions. One's feelings may relate to the spirit's sensing beyond the local timeframe, and hence making one act out of greater foresight than one might imagine. Or percieve.

Well per chance


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: sykobish]
    #2346160 - 02/17/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

racsism isnt an inborn trait...jeez


--------------------
o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: The Swami Feelings Challenge [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2346198 - 02/17/04 04:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

When I take a multiple choice test, and I don't know the answer to a specific question, sometimes I have a feeling that I know the right answer, and MOST OF the time, I am right.





werd, i have passed a lot of tests I didnt study for with intuition. Somehow, I got a B in Advanced macro economics. All of the tests consisted of graphs of very complicated relationships between various economic variables. They would use one graph to represent the current state of the market, and then ask you to pick what would happen to the graph if a certain variable or combination of variables were tweaked.

I swear I had no logical understanding of that shit at all. I never went to class, and I never bought the textbook. But I totally bluffed my way through those tests using pure intuition. Too bad I ended up not needing the class for my major...


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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