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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3096544 - 09/06/04 06:26 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That is bullshit, though, because without an essential faith in the usefulness of the spiritual technique you will have no useful results. Then, let me predict, you will post that you underwent the process and recieved no benefit and that it is total BS. Without faith you will waste your time. Spiritual practice is wholly dependant on faith until you recieve the results...which will be negative without the initial faith which you have said time and again you do not have. The results of spiritual practice are totallyt subjective to the person involved, and no two people will achieve the exact same result. I am not accusing you of being dishonest or even of being an asshole, I am just saying that you are set up for failure before hand and will use the result to fuel further attacks on these things because they are not part of your current world view.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3096599 - 09/06/04 06:38 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"you'll most likely know of the one that have no benifit such as
levitation
bi location
invisiblity
teleknesis
menifestation
telepathy
energy manipulations
soul travel"

While a few of these things have a small amount of merit, they are for the most part supreme expressions of self importance on the part of the person making the claim. Swami will hand out big bucks to anyone who shows him one of these things first hand and on demand. I already know the story, though, "I won't cheapen my ability by showing it off or accepting money for it." I aleady heard it too many times from basement "Shamen" and living room "Gurus". I have studied shamanism intensely for 11 years and will tell you that it's most powerful benefit is a heathy body and peace of mind. So, you are correct. These things have no benefit.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/07/04 05:43 AM)


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3096637 - 09/06/04 06:45 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

i have seen them done some from the list others that or not there, and experience some aswell, these people need no money, and love their life as just as they are. there are other practices beside shamanism that you might need to look for and experience. don't limit yourself just to one practice


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: spudamore]
    #3096693 - 09/06/04 06:55 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"these people need no money, and love their life as just as they are"

That is what I mean. If these things were true phenomenon they would be science not conjecture. While spirit travel is THE cornerstone of shamanism, it is a symbolic process that will not produce empirical results. It will only have meaning for the traveller. The results it produces are useful, but they are highly subjective according to the individual. It's ultimate goal is healing the spirit and mind. The spirit is much more subtle than this. The rabbit hole is much deeper than cheap, parlor tricks.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #3096707 - 09/06/04 06:59 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

everyday it seems there is a universal "vibe" shared by almost every guest that comes in to eat. it is very hard to explain, and every day it is different, but no matter what random people come in ,there is a similarity between them all. call it a mood, or attitude, or energy, i don't know, but when i come into work, if i try, i can "feel" it. even before anyone sits down. and i'd say better than 90% of the people i serve that day will act accordingly. simplified, everyone will be happy, or sad, or rushed, or picky about their food, etc. so all day long these people will seriously follow the pattern.
... every table will want their checks seperated, or there will be one guy at every table that wants to pay for everyone, or i will go all day without a single person looking me in the face when they order. so trivial, i know, but it happens.

(gotta put this in too, this is not EVERY day, but it could be me just not being aware of the flavor of the day)

so what is influencing these people to behave so predictably?
i dunno, chalk it up to barrometric pressure, or weather systems, or gravitational fields, or the hostess greeting everyone the same way.





are you sure it isn't just you?


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3096750 - 09/06/04 07:07 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

If these things were true phenomenon they would be science not conjecture.

can you or science fit or transform infinite into finite????


The results it produces are useful, but they are highly subjective according to the individual. It's ultimate goal is healing the spirit and mind. The spirit is much more subtle than this. The rabbit hole is much deeper than cheap, parlor tricks.

you don't think i already know that??

many of these things can take one off of there path of spiritual healing


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3097865 - 09/06/04 11:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

1. Fix clearly in your mind that you have done wrong things
2. Ask God for forgiveness
3. Ask God to reveal himself (/son) to you
4. Read the bible every night
5. Pray every night
6. Find and attend a good chuch


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinemoosehead
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3097922 - 09/06/04 11:55 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

haha

best one so far


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3098606 - 09/06/04 07:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah, and start dating a born again evangelical.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Malachi]
    #3099139 - 09/06/04 10:18 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I am then allowed to do "the naughty" so that we can feel guilty and repent together?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3099222 - 09/06/04 10:41 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I am then allowed to do "the naughty" so that we can feel guilty and repent together?




Well... erm, well yeah, pretty much. 

I gather that you're hip to the naughty.  :blush:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3099765 - 09/07/04 01:07 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

In my humble oppinion all the 'powers' or abnormal experiences you can have on the spiritual quest kick ass, but you have to enjoy them as and when they come. For myself its not under my concious control.

For example, ive experienced Precognition once on a shroom trip, and it blew my mind, also on two other occasions i had definite experiences of precognition, but they always came without any concious effort or warning.

Also, ive experienced bi-location, in as far as seeing my own body from the outside, also randomly occured without my prompting.

And a wierd experience of having every muscle in my body stretched to their limits, than like a 'click' and i swear to god i was an inch taller.

Soul Travel? im not sure how to diferntiate this from the OBE, and its hard enough to differentiate the OBE from the lucid dream, but yeah at least ive had almost nightly experiences of conciously exploring the infinite realms of my internal mind/reality.

But yeah i definetly agree these are wierd side products that for me at least crop up at random, and are not exactly under my control, so the best thing to do is sort of enjoy them and just move on.

And yeah the best reliable benefit is a healthy mind and body, and for shamanism the direct experience of contact with the other. (the Nagual)


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100277 - 09/07/04 03:57 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I would be careful about throwing around to many Castaneda terms (Naugal) as he misused the term. It is actually a Huichol term for a shapeshifter that tranforms into a wolf. Not that there is not any relevant info in his books, but they are primarily thought provoking entertainment, his works should not be considered a shamanic reference. A much better guide would be "Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstacy" by Mircea Eliade Check it out here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0691119422/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0761842-9062433#reader-page
Soul travel is the shamanic journey experienced by shamans around the world to various degrees. It is an intense visualization technique similar to astral projection, and it is used for obtaining knowledge from the spirit world. Actually it would be closer to remote viewing than astral projection as it requires some imagination. Shamanism is a great tool for self guidance and healing.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3100417 - 09/07/04 04:26 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

perhaps more than one group used the name, or it had more than one meaning?

either way i find the Don juan use of the term clear:
The tonal is our current, limited and illusory view of reality, created by our personal paradigms of as Don Juan puts it the location of our displacement point, what we hook our attention on etc. This is our way of 'looking at the world'

The nagual is everything that lies outside our current worldviews limits, the nagual is beyond our verbal systems to describe, and can be paralleld to the Tao. Shamanism consists of techniques that help break a crack in the tonal to let in the ineffable nagual.

As described by his metaphor with the tablecloth in journey to ixtlan.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlineshroom_muncher
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100602 - 09/07/04 05:07 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Has it been three months yet?


--------------------
peace sells but whos buyin?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3100698 - 09/07/04 05:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

While many of Carlos' ideas about shamanism are quite correct, his terminology was wholly invented from mixing Native American terms and even using invented terms altogether. He took influence from the "Tao Te Ching" as freely as he did from Native American shamanism. It was after all (as Swami has taken great pains to remind me) fiction, but very inspiring it is. I am very familiar with his works (I read most of his books twice, but I read Journey to Ixtlan 6 times and I read The second Ring of Power 5 times), and I am also knowledgeable of world shamanism, having spent over 11 years in it's study and 9 years in practice. I have also had contact on a meaningful level with two shamen of differing experience. I feel my assertion that Castaneda's terms were also Castaneda's inventions is correct.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3113029 - 09/09/04 07:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

so... is this going to happen?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3113204 - 09/09/04 08:44 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Huehue touched on a word, the most important word here and that is "Subtlety"

You can do this stuff until you are blue in the face and not get much until you can percieve hyper dimensionally. All of the cool stuff supporting and explaining the mechanics of this plane happens in the other dimensions. Making the connections is a very subtle experience. It's only through confirmation and consistancies that the subtleties become profound to the one experiencing them.

Have most of you noticed that when you go to bring what was profound for you into words that it looses at least 90% of it's awe to the listener? It is personal to the perceiver.

I think if anyone wants to pick their game up a step, the first thing to do is to develop your extra sensory perception.

BTW Swami, that little girl hasn't even been born yet. I was being shown a probable future scenerio for you. I did accept that you couldn't place her in your life. I also know what I saw related to you and won't concede on that. So I asked her who she was and why you didn't know her. She said, "I havn't been born yet silly".


I'm still a work in progress!

I like what you said about needing to have faith in all of this before results even begin to show up huehue. Without the faith, the results may appear and you will miss them entirely or write them off.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineElfWizard
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Re: The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #3113319 - 09/09/04 09:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

if you really want to do this I have a very simple method thats harder then it sounds. find time to set aside 1 hour (latter you may want to add more time but an hour is a good start) Make shure you are well rested and you have not eating anything recently (don't be hungry just try not to have energy going to digestion) Find a comfortable spot to sit any method of sitting will work chair lotus what ever is comfortable but not too relaxed. and clear you mind of everything dont think about it being black don't have the internal dialoge most of us have Work on not thinking if something comes into your mind let it go. it will be hard at first but stick with it not thinking is one of the hardest things for us to learn becuse we've been taught the other way since birth "I THINK THERE FOR I AM" try to stick with "I AM" the only rules I can come up with are
1. Do not hear - with your ears or otherwise no talking in your head
2. Do not see - closeing your eyes helps but even then you will "see" stuff in your head let it go don't force it away just relax to emptyness
3. Do not Feel - relax let your awarness of your body dift away this is important you won't have much luck if your body keeps makeing you think about it.
4. Do not Think - this is the last part you will get to after you mastered the other three and in many ways the hardest your mind will get bored with the lack of imput and will wander let it but anything that it comes up with MUST be let go so you can continue to drift in nothingness

sort of a Zen method but I find it works and the lest you should find is a much calmer self the interesting part will be when you can not think as you go about life you notice a lot more around you when not looking inward listening to your own thoughts


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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