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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26346683 -

Kryptos said:
What do the people vote on, versus what do the people not vote on? Do we vote on that as well?

Followup, lets say we vote on certain issues as well. The ACA bill was 1,200 pages. Is every citizen expected to understand 1,200 pages of legalese?


That'd be far too complicated.

Just let people vote on bills which for which they can read a short summary from their favorite source.

I've never read everything about the Medicare for All that Bernie is proposing, but I'd still vote in favor of it based on what I've read from sources I trust.

And I like The Ecstatic's suggestion of getting enough signatures to put something on the ballet.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26346685 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kryptos said:
So, are you going to personally read the hundreds of thousands of pages that are in these bills? Average bill is 15 pages, with a total of ~15,000 bills submitted per year. That comes out to reading 225,000 pages of legalese to vote on. That like reading the entire harry potter series every week.


I don't think that's what he was suggesting.

I think he just meant issues like "Bernie's version of Medicare for All" should be on the ballot, or "Marijuana legalization" and so on.  At least that's my guess.


more or less; plus something tells me if we had a direct democracy, bills would be summarized as they are for state ballots.

also, mistake me if i'm wrong, but there was a study that came out a while back that the majority of politicians barely read the bills the vote on.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26346686 -

Exactly, Falcon and Ecstatic got me; but something tells me Kryptos already knew that and was just being argumentative.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26346841 -

Who decides on the wording of the bill summary?

NC recently had a court fight over that. Now imagine the same thing at the federal level.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26346883 -

Bruh I know you don't want to have a discussion, you just want to argue. It doesn't matter what I say, you'll oppose it. It's clear.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26346994 -

Kryptos said:
relic said:
dreamachine said:
but I don't think taxpayers should pay for it [abortion].


?  Taxpayers are funding other people's abortions?


No, they aren't. It's illegal to use taxpayer funds for abortions, as well as abortion counseling, or even telling people that abortion is a thing that exists.

The right wing just doesn't like that particular aspect of reality.



Totally rhetorical,  bro.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26347001 -

The Ecstatic said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kryptos said:
So, are you going to personally read the hundreds of thousands of pages that are in these bills? Average bill is 15 pages, with a total of ~15,000 bills submitted per year. That comes out to reading 225,000 pages of legalese to vote on. That like reading the entire harry potter series every week.


I don't think that's what he was suggesting.

I think he just meant issues like "Bernie's version of Medicare for All" should be on the ballot, or "Marijuana legalization" and so on.  At least that's my guess.


I think all states should adopt referendums similar to how California and Florida do it: collect enough signatures to get your proposal on the ballot, and then it becomes law if it passes a certain threshold (60% usually).



Yup.  I've been clamoring g for that in VA for > 25 years.  Ballot initiatives are the best way to give the people a real say in legislating, imo. 

Only about half of the states have some sort of direct democracy such as ballot initiatives/referendums.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine] * 2
    #26347081 -

Federal ballot measures are a fantastic idea

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26347085 -

Right? If the system wasn't so corrupt you'd think it would already implemented by now. Get this in Hawaii you still can't vote on policies; you can only vote for representation when it comes to state initiatives.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347322 -

dreamachine said:
Bruh I know you don't want to have a discussion, you just want to argue. It doesn't matter what I say, you'll oppose it. It's clear.


Well in that case, you are wrong. Clearly wrong.

If you would prefer I don't point out the obvious flaws in your plan, I suggest going to somewhere other than politics. Or ignoring me.

I think you have a mostly good idea, but your implementation is severely lacking. Sadly, a good idea with no follow though or implementation means nothing.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26347357 -

Maybe you're right. In all honesty, I'm probably not going to be helping to implement anything; other than perhaps moving towards self-sustainability and promoting others to do the same. I've more or less given up on the idea of achieving positive change via politics. I planted some chilis, spinach, tomatoes, basil, cilantro recently, and I'm working on growing more and more food. already off the grid and got solar power, and same when it comes to water, get water straight from the sky where i live.

i'm prepping for the 'apocalypse' lol


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347366 -

Ah. Sadly, I doubt that's going to last. The modern world won't allow it.

One of the greatest things about modern capitalism is, you don't get to opt out. Everyone pays their dues, one way or another.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26347373 -

I got six acres in the middle of the jungle, surrounded by miles of other properties that are 3 acres minimum that house mostly people with similar ideals as myself. I don't see how the modern world is going to run us over. Maybe a century down the line if the city of Hilo (less than 100k population) spreads out and companies offer big cash for our properties. That said I plan to expand my land ownership over the next decades and to imprint into my children the importance of land ownership and self-sufficiency.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347393 -

World population doubled in your parent's lifetime.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26347399 -

Touche; but not here in Hawaii; though it has increased. It will all depend on whether or not an individuals right to own private property is allowed to continue, and whether or not my offspring understands the importance of land ownership and doesn't end up selling the land I leave to them. There might be some kind of lawyer shit I can do to ensure the land isn't sold. Not sure though.

That said in my lifetime; so long as society doesn't completely collapse and gangs to rise up and start mass killing and stealing I should be okay and should achieve either total or near total self-sustainability within the decade. (barring extra shit i want to buy just cuz)


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347405 -

I wonder what happens when you get sick?

Do you go to the hospital?

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347411 -

Or your land is swallowed up by a lava flow


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26347413 -

I'm crazy bruh; i don't go to the hospital when I get sick... That said I do need to stockpile medicine as well.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: koods]
    #26347417 -

koods said:
Or your land is swallowed up by a lava flow


now that is legit probably my biggest danger here on the Big Island. Luckily though I live in a relatively safe lava zone on the island (the MSM has blown the damage of the lava out of proportion; though it was terrible for a lot of people; the majority of the island was untouched) Also, luckily, the current lava levels are the lowest on record and the chances of another flow any time soon are very low, especially in regards to flowing in my direction.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26347418 -

Might wanna start with basic medical textbooks.

Course, you won't fix cancer or cardiovascular disease while "self sufficient".

And you will get them, from the air or the water. That's the other thing about capitalism. It poisons the world.

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