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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26344745 -

Any sufficiently advanced technology or idea seems like magic to those that don't understand it.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26344754 -

dreamachine said:
So the government does fund Planned Parenthood? But they don't use that money for abortions? They only use private donations for that? lmfao; i'm down to agree to disagree, but when folks just straight up try and bullshit me it's hilarious


Presumably they have to submit a full account of the funds and their uses as a nonprofit organization
in order to maintain continued funding

this is not to say that there may not be shifty shuffling of things going on
a number of breast cancer charities are pretty corrupt too  :sick:

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26344761 -

Tantrika said:
dreamachine said:
So the government does fund Planned Parenthood? But they don't use that money for abortions? They only use private donations for that? lmfao; i'm down to agree to disagree, but when folks just straight up try and bullshit me it's hilarious


Presumably they have to submit a full account of the funds and their uses as a nonprofit organization
in order to maintain continued funding

this is not to say that there may not be shifty shuffling of things going on
a number of breast cancer charities are pretty corrupt too  :sick:


They do. And due to the microscope under which PP permanently resides (thanks, GOP), I'm willing to bet there is no shifty shuffling going on. Plus, why would it? Abortions are a very small percent of their funding.

The Susan B Komen foundation is pretty shitty, as far as charities go. They're almost as bad as the Salvation Army.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26344793 -

I see. While I kind of doubt that they keep an accurate reporting, you may be right. In which case if you are than I see no issue. That said it might be wise that PP opens up a separate umbrella that strictly organizes abortions; I imagine that would help the women who utilize PP for other services by reducing opposition against it. nah mean?


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26344905 -

This is why Roe V Wade is such a chicken shit decision.  The Hyde Amendment goes to show just how easily it is to circumvent the extremely vague decision in Roe. That’s why red states have functionally outlawed abortion without violating federal law, or god forbid even a challenge by the courts.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26344996 -

Good point. That said I do agree that if the people of the state want to vote to outlaw something they technically should be able to; that said it does provide a dangerous precedent to allow states to enact laws that also could in the future allow the outlawing of such things as free speech and the right to bear arms.

Part of me would suggest people who dislike their state's laws to either move to a different state, or to organize representation in their state to change said laws. However, we do know that special interests often take precedent over the will of the people...

In all honesty, I think that federal and state law needs to be severely reduced in power and to instead have city and county laws supersede state and federal law. It's a mess though. These systems we have now were put in place to rule over a few million people tops, not hundreds of millions.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26345397 -

I think keeping politics strictly local is probably good for the public paying more attention and feeling like they have a genuine say, but it’d be a nightmare of bureaucracy and quibbling over basically everything. Commerce would be a nightmare, the dispersion of tax revenue, laws that contradict one another. I think you need a strong central authority at this point in society, due to both the crises we face, and the system we face them within. If we reduced federal and state authority right now, the people who would win would be the ruling class.  The 99% can’t cede any potential power willingly. To whatever degree our system is a democracy, that gives us the potential to gain power and change things. People like to say “if voting changed anything they’d make it illegal” but the rich also dump huge amounts of money and influence and effort into shaping our elections. Of course, voting is the bare minimum required for meaningful change.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26345423 -

Without federal pre-emption, I'm willing to bet that slavery would be a thing tomorrow.

Just look at what happened the day after the SC invalidated most of the VRA.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26345429 -

Agreed


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #26345848 -

I hear you guys. Maybe then instead of local authority superseding state/federal authority, we should at the very least get rid of representative government and instead have the people vote for policies instead of politicians.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26345890 -

You mean like brexit? 🤔


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: koods]
    #26345897 -

I'm not that familiar with Brexit; but isn't it more about Britain trying to regain sovereignty and reduce the EU's power and control over them? I mean I guess that's kind of similar to what I was saying. But not really in regards to the people voting over policies vs politicians.

I mean with the advent of technology and the internet I think it's kind of useless to have to depend on representatives to approve of policies that the people want to see approved.

Don't you? Or am I crazy.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26345916 -

I totally agree with you.  No politician is asking my opinion about anything except who I'm going to vote for next.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26346215 -

The Government doesn't directly fund planned parenthood, but about a third of their funding does come from government sources indirectly, 90% from Medicaid. Medicaid is a partnership between the federal government and individual states, and is distributed by states. Since the Hyde Amendment abortion funding from the federal government is prohibited except in cases of rape, incest or the mother's life being endangered. Individual states determine whether state funds can be used for abortion.

I donate money to the National Abortion Rights Action League (now just called NARAL Pro-Choice America). I don't think they provide abortion funding. The are a political action/lobbying organization.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: dreamachine]
    #26346483 -

dreamachine said:
I'm not that familiar with Brexit; but isn't it more about Britain trying to regain sovereignty and reduce the EU's power and control over them? I mean I guess that's kind of similar to what I was saying. But not really in regards to the people voting over policies vs politicians.

I mean with the advent of technology and the internet I think it's kind of useless to have to depend on representatives to approve of policies that the people want to see approved.

Don't you? Or am I crazy.


So, are you going to personally read the hundreds of thousands of pages that are in these bills? Average bill is 15 pages, with a total of ~15,000 bills submitted per year. That comes out to reading 225,000 pages of legalese to vote on. That like reading the entire harry potter series every week.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26346507 -

Direct democracy would mean all the money that goes to buying politicians would now just go to propaganda.

It’d be an even more insane version of They Live.


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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26346523 -

Obey and consume motherfucker!

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Kryptos]
    #26346594 -

Kryptos said:
So, are you going to personally read the hundreds of thousands of pages that are in these bills? Average bill is 15 pages, with a total of ~15,000 bills submitted per year. That comes out to reading 225,000 pages of legalese to vote on. That like reading the entire harry potter series every week.


I don't think that's what he was suggesting.

I think he just meant issues like "Bernie's version of Medicare for All" should be on the ballot, or "Marijuana legalization" and so on.  At least that's my guess.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26346667 -

So, a partially representative democracy?

What do the people vote on, versus what do the people not vote on? Do we vote on that as well?

Followup, lets say we vote on certain issues as well. The ACA bill was 1,200 pages. Is every citizen expected to understand 1,200 pages of legalese?

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Re: Tulsi Gabbard 2020! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26346680 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kryptos said:
So, are you going to personally read the hundreds of thousands of pages that are in these bills? Average bill is 15 pages, with a total of ~15,000 bills submitted per year. That comes out to reading 225,000 pages of legalese to vote on. That like reading the entire harry potter series every week.


I don't think that's what he was suggesting.

I think he just meant issues like "Bernie's version of Medicare for All" should be on the ballot, or "Marijuana legalization" and so on.  At least that's my guess.


I think all states should adopt referendums similar to how California and Florida do it: collect enough signatures to get your proposal on the ballot, and then it becomes law if it passes a certain threshold (60% usually).


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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