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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Zanthius]
    #17184336 -

Quote:
According to professor Andrew Newberg ( http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/professors/professor_detail.aspx?pid=443 ) being more spiritual and going more to church is correlated with less depression and better physical health ( probably because of a lower release of the stress hormone cortisol ). Of course, I am not saying people should be more religious just because it makes them less depressed and gives them better physical health. Personally I think better health and less depression can be achieved in numerous of other ways. Anyhow.


That claim is reflected by the frequenters of this forum!:haha:


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Zanthius]
    #17184346 -

Zanthius said:
DieCommie said:
Due to the stress that believers put atheists and secular people through right?  Fitting in is less stressful than standing up for an unpopular minority position.


Yeah, but if religion is so bad, then there should be much more social harmony in atheistic countries like Russia and east Europe than in religious countries like the US and Brazil. Do you really think things are better in Russia than in the US?


Do you think there would be less social harmony in the US if it was atheistic?


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Edited by dustinthewind13 (11/08/12 01:30 PM)

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Zanthius]
    #17184348 -

My question would be how much of that is due to social contact? My elderly mother has almost zero contacts outside of church on Sunday.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Zanthius]
    #17184351 -

Zanthius said:
DieCommie said:
Due to the stress that believers put atheists and secular people through right?  Fitting in is less stressful than standing up for an unpopular minority position.


Yeah, but if religion is so bad, then there should be much more social harmony in atheistic countries like Russia and east Europe than in religious countries like the US and Brazil. Do you really think things are better in Russia than in the US?


I dont buy that line of reasoning at all.  I dont accept that living a lie for a better life is a better life.  I dont accept your correlation between being religious and 'social harmony' (whatever that means).  I dont accept the implication that if I'd rather live in the US than Russia then religion cant be that bad.  Give me a break...  Do you actually believe what you are implying here?

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: DieCommie]
    #17184378 -

DieCommie said:
I dont accept that living a lie for a better life is a better life.


You are probably right. Anyhow, humans are immensely stupid. If you are stupid enough to be convinced by a primitive lie from the bible or the quran, then maybe you don't deserve to know the truth.

Also. "The Truth" is very far away from what an average human can grasp. Maybe it is better for these people to settle with something simple ( like a religion ), rather than being stuck somewhere between religious disillusionment and "the truth".

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184429 -

Zanthius said:
johnm214 said:
What a disgusting comment you've made.  I'd hate to see what "bad" is in your eyes.  These teachings are the raving of a mad man that would cause, and have caused, untold misseries in families around the world.


According to professor Andrew Newberg ( http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/professors/professor_detail.aspx?pid=443 ) being more spiritual and going more to church is correlated with less depression and better physical health ( probably because of a lower release of the stress hormone cortisol ).


I would expect that to be true.  The class of people who have social interactions, keep appointments, and are able to function enough to leave their houses with clothes on and intelligently navigate to a place of worship regularly is a very different class from the community at large.

The relevant comparison would be people in the exact same situation who instead go regularly to some other social club rather than church.

I would expect similar result amongst people who go to knitting circles regularly.
Quote:
Of course, I am not saying people should be more religious just because it makes them less depressed and gives them better physical health.



See, you've presumed a cause here allready.  What evidence do you have that being religious causes such benefits rather than people who have such benefits are more likely to be in church?

Shut ins without a pair of clothes or the strength to make it to church probably aren't doing as well as a normal family who goes to church, but the same is true of a normal family who goes to track meets.

Quote:
Saying that religion is the root cause of social harm is probably nonsense.


Yes, and I never hear any critics of religion, ever, saying that.  What I do hear is a lot of appologists attacking this straw man over and over and over as if it were a point of contention.

The problem with religion is dogma, faith, and certainty in things irrespective of the evidence combined with the usual clanish nature of people.  This subsumes the problems of religion, but isn't coterminous with it.  I've heard nobody, ever, deny this.


ConfettiHead said:
Way to back up your buddy Diploid. I presented my interpretation clearly and coherently, however it continues to be ignored by those who oppose my viewpoint. Apparently Shamanick was able to understand it with ease, but johnm can't grasp the idea of metaphorical teachings. He must think there was a real Jesus made out of bread (see John 6:35)! I presented my case politely and soundly, only when I was disrespected did I become unpolite. My apologies for that. Anyway, I never expected to win the debate, considering this forum is controlled by atheists and materialists.



Still waiting on that methodology you use to interpret the bible and determine the superiority of your undisclosed interpretation.  If you can't back up your claims then perhaps its time for you to go to an ego-stroking forum where you won't be challenged.

As for "controlled by atheists and materialists", unless I've missed something, you are not banned from this forum and remain free to post whatever argument you wish. Your failure to defend your views can't be shirked off on some conspiracy by Diploid to oppress you or whatever it is you're implying.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #17184438 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
My question would be how much of that is due to social contact? My elderly mother has almost zero contacts outside of church on Sunday.


Yeah. I think the correlation between going to church and having better health is mostly due to social contact. Well. Teenagers used to socialize in churches. Now they socialize by getting drunk on solvents that destroy the myelin-sheaths in their brains. I think teenagers should socialize in some other way. Maybe something like the Ayahuasca churches in Brazil, without the religious superstition.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: DieCommie]
    #17184441 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
Anyway, I never expected to win the debate, considering this forum is controlled by atheists and materialists.


What a lame cop-out.  :thumbdown:


You put a thumbs down because you know it's true. Atheists always want to hypocritically point the finger at the religious, calling them close-minded, when in reality they are the close-minded ones thinking that this material reality is the only reality.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184461 -

Don't blame them for being cold and dry, that is the personality they nurtured, it can be difficult.


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184484 -

Quote:
Atheists always want to hypocritically point the finger at the religious, calling them close-minded, when in reality they are the close-minded ones thinking that this material reality is the only reality.


This a whiney projection not a point of debate. If you have a case to make for a non-material reality, this would be a good time and place for it.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Cactilove] * 1
    #17184498 -

Cactilove said:
Don't blame them for being cold and dry, that is the personality they nurtured, it can be difficult.


:boring:

Yet more substanceless noise in lieu of honest debate.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184568 -

Way to back up your buddy Diploid.

Way to once again turn this into a personal attack on me instead of an attack on what I said or a defense of what you said which I attacked.

QED


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #17184601 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Atheists always want to hypocritically point the finger at the religious, calling them close-minded, when in reality they are the close-minded ones thinking that this material reality is the only reality.


This a whiney projection not a point of debate. If you have a case to make for a non-material reality, this would be a good time and place for it.


I'd be more than happy to present my case. I'm currently at work, but when I get home that's the
first thing I'll do.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184625 -

ConfettiHead said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Atheists always want to hypocritically point the finger at the religious, calling them close-minded, when in reality they are the close-minded ones thinking that this material reality is the only reality.


This a whiney projection not a point of debate. If you have a case to make for a non-material reality, this would be a good time and place for it.


I'd be more than happy to present my case. I'm currently at work, but when I get home that's the
first thing I'll do.



I can feel an argument from ignorance coming with a chance of reversing the burden of proof.  Let's see how psychic I am.

btw confetti, this would also be a good place to back up the shit you said pages ago which I've challenged.  Lets see your method of intepreting the bible coherently that reveals your interpretation as superior.  It certainly can't be done from a christian perspective, and I doubt it can be done at all without arbitrary exceptions.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: johnm214]
    #17184666 -

I never said my method was superior, it just makes more sense than the Christian method. Anyway, I accept your disrespectful challenge and I will present my case the best way I can.


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184705 -

Uh, you didn't?

You said:

Quote:
It's not that Jesus was God. He just embodied god-like characteristics such as love for all, self-sacrifice, forgiveness, etc. Remember he was a son of God, just like the rest of us. He was an awakened individual. Let's just say he got it. The problem is that individuals who still have a savage mentality, i.e. people in medieval times, don't understand the point of such subtle teachings like Jesus's. They take everything too literally and thus think it right to kill anyone who does not subscribe to their way of life.

You can't skim over Jesus's teachings (or any spiritual master's teachings) one time, very quickly and expect to understand it. The teachings must be viewed from the proper perspective in order to gain full understanding. One problem we have is that scripture is so widely available that anyone can just read it and believe what they want. This causes the misuse and suffering.


and

Quote:
f you're referring to my first post then you have misinterpreted it, just like you misinterpret the words of the bible.



I'm pleased to see you're backtracking from your claims, but it seems a bit dishonest when your posts have continually told people they are misinterpreting the books and then procede to advance your own interpretations but claim you don't have a superior interpretation.

How exactly do you determine that others have 'misinterpreted' the bible if you don't have a superior interpretation to compare it to?

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184709 -

I never expected to win the debate, considering this forum is controlled by atheists and materialists.

Considering that I'm the atheist in control of the forum and so far I have exerted exactly zero control over this thread or the debate, I'd say your assertion is just more off-topic crap to deflect from the fact that you are completely unable to defend your end of the debate. :shrug:

I'll go back to not-controlling this thread now. Just like I've been doing all along.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #17184790 -

ConfettiHead said:
Anyway, I never expected to win the debate, considering this forum is controlled by atheists and materialists.


I'm a government puppet because I think atheists make a good argument against god existing. I also think certain religions make sense sometimes, so I'm not completely a government puppet. Actually wait, the US government is religious. I take back what I said.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: Diploid]
    #17184839 -

Quote:
I'll go back to not-controlling this thread now. Just like I've been doing all along.


Your non-control is pretty damned ham-fisted! :crankey:


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Re: If Jesus was really God [Re: johnm214]
    #17185180 -

Don't you love a show! :laugh:


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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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