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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11183629 -

palmersc said:
I believe that objective truth exists. I believe that truth is found in Jesus.

I am not one to sit on the fence. I chose a path and followed it. That initially was psychedelics, eastern mysticism and Buddhism, because I thought Christianity was man made and cultural. I don't know why Christianity is viewed as an ignorant worldview. If you look at all the discoveries in medicine and science over the centuries, you will see that godly men were behind much of it. Your rebellious attitude is nothing new, but it does not take into account what culture has provided. History. Are we now so smart that we can discard God?

I am certainly missing the mark in some ways because of culture. That's where grace comes in.



Your spiritual journey has brought you through a variety of beliefs and ideas.  What does Christianity have that made you reject Buddhism or eastern mysticism?  Or maybe the Christian who was talking to you was a better bullshitter than your Buddhist friend.  They are all stories man.  You did good by rejecting a few of them, now just apply that same logic and rationalism to Christianity and then you will be free.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11183652 -

woah. my friend got jesus links from mycobag site

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11183700 -

joemolloy said:
What does Christianity have that made you reject Buddhism or eastern mysticism?  Or maybe the Christian who was talking to you was a better bullshitter than your Buddhist friend.  They are all stories man.  You did good by rejecting a few of them, now just apply that same logic and rationalism to Christianity and then you will be free.


What I have to say may not be much help to you. I obviously believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life as he claimed. How this came about I know not how exactly except that God interceded.

I did not trust other men to come to my conclusion, much the same way I did not trust other men when I delved deep into psychedelics. I would say that the hallmark of my attitude before I met Jesus was to question all authority. I believed I could figure it out by myself. My life became a thirst for truth and I was like a man in a desert looking for water. Finally I collapsed.

Jesus is for men who admit they don't know and need guidance. He is more real than the air you are breathing and closer still. This is why Christianity was not some club I decided to join. How could any man be honest with himself and decide to believe something he never believed in. That's kind of what this thread is about. That faith is a gift by God's grace and no other self willed faith will save you.

I may have skirted your post a bit in not addressing logic and rationalism. This thread might go in a different direction if you want to bring to my attention any fallacies in the Christian faith as you understand them.

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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11184133 -

palmersc said:
That's kind of what this thread is about. That faith is a gift by God's grace and no other self willed faith will save you.



If this is so, why even create this thread? You won't be convincing anybody of anything unless you have God's divine finger betwixt your cheeks, right?

Do you? Have his finger?

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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11184395 -

I never get a real response whenever I bring this up. A life-changing experience should show some external behavioral changes, yet large-scale social studies show those who claim to be Christian are slightly less moral than atheists/agnostics.

Even if most Christians are only paying lip service, the few 'real' Christians in the group should skew the results in their favor, but alas, this is not true.


--------------------

Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/05/09 12:22 AM)

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11184814 -

Wait, step into the light
How can this be right?
I'm afraid we're going to ask you to leave
This you cannot win
With the color of your skin
You won't be getting into the Promised Land
It's just another case
You people still don't know your place
Step aside, out the way, wipe that look of your face
'Cause we are the divine
Separated from the swine


--------------------
“The person lives most beautifully who does not reflect upon existence” - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Change my mind so much I can't even trust it. My mind changes me so much I can't even trust myself."

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Re: Grace [Re: Realized]
    #11184849 -


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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185523 -

joemolloy said:
Band of Gypsys said:
Yes, God will come into your life in anyway you want. Religion isn't really necessary. If you want to play religion God will play along.


So God comes in many forms?  Not just the Christian version?  How do I know which one is God?  There are so many to choose from and they all sing the same refrain - Have faith.


One God many, forms means you don't have to know which one is God. People created religion not God.


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185565 -

One God many, forms means you don't have to know which one is God. People created religion not God.

Wait just a minute. Man also created god out of his early ignorance of nature and fears of death. Needing some father figure to appease helped early humans deal with all their anxieties. As each tribe did this they created differing myths and such about god creating the differing religions and views of this imaginary god. Then to defend their myth they go to war with the others to destroy other threatening views. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185668 -

Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
Band of Gypsys said:
Yes, God will come into your life in anyway you want. Religion isn't really necessary. If you want to play religion God will play along.


So God comes in many forms?  Not just the Christian version?  How do I know which one is God?  There are so many to choose from and they all sing the same refrain - Have faith.


One God many, forms means you don't have to know which one is God. People created religion not God.



Okay, so God comes in many forms.  I haven't seen or felt any of these.  Here I stand with an open heart and an open mind.  God, I am waiting.  Why so quiet?


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185713 -

I can't answer why you haven't experienced God. I somehow feel you are disingenuous.

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185755 -

Band of Gypsys said:
I can't answer why you haven't experienced God. I somehow feel you are disingenuous.



Why should that matter?  Does God shun the disengenuous?  Why wouldn't he just show his warmth and love to me?  Why the hide and seek? Why the tests?  Doesn't he know all of my moves before hand?  Why bother?  It's like me programming a robot to walk and then damning the robot for walking.

If He knows all, He knew millions of years before I was born that I would be this way.  In fact, He created me with a logical and rational mind that serves as a good bullshit detection device.  And if we can grant him the credit for creating me and He made me this way, then he obviously wants me to be an atheist.  He granted you with divine experience.  Lucky you.

Or maybe you are mistaken and you are just believing in the stuff of fantasy.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185787 -

Band of Gypsys said:
I can't answer why you haven't experienced God. I somehow feel you are disingenuous.


Same as I feel about those who claim without doubt and without proof that there is a god.:thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185823 -

joemolloy said:
Band of Gypsys said:
I can't answer why you haven't experienced God. I somehow feel you are disingenuous.


Why should that matter?



If you don't look, you don't find.

Quote:
  Does God shun the disengenuous?  Why wouldn't he just show his warmth and love to me?  Why the hide and seek? Why the tests?  Doesn't he know all of my moves before hand?  Why bother?  It's like me programming a robot to walk and then damning the robot for walking.

If He knows all, He knew millions of years before I was born that I would be this way.  In fact, He created me with a logical and rational mind that serves as a good bullshit detection device.  And if we can grant him the credit for creating me and He made me this way, then he obviously wants me to be an atheist.  He granted you with divine experience.  Lucky you.


This is all christian BS. IMO this is not what god is. You blame God for human behavior. That is based on the christian view of god. There is much more than christianity.

Quote:
Or maybe you are mistaken and you are just believing in the stuff of fantasy.


Maybe or maybe not, who cares, I am doing just fine. I am not trying to convince you of anything.

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185841 -

Why are Christian beliefs BS, but not yours?  What led you to reject Christianity and accept your current beliefs?


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185847 -

Don't forget this is a debate based forum where evidence is required in that debate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11185875 -

Oweyervishice said:
GOD SENT HIMSELF INTO OUR WORLD AS A HUMAN SO HE CUD PUNISH HIMSELF FOR HIS SINLESS LIFE AS A THINGY TO PROTECT US BECAUSE WE ARE SINNERS BUT JESUS TOOK OUR SIN AWAY BUT WE CAN STILL SIN BUT WE CANT GO TO HELL BECAUSE JESUS TOOK GODS WRATH BUT IF UR BAD ULL GO TO HELL

GOOD GOLLY GRACE


Pass this along to AT LEAST 10 of your friends, because if you don't, YOU WILL GO TO HELL!!!11! Trust me!! I knew someone that received God's divine message, and didn't pass it along to AT LEAST 10 of his friends, and he WENT TO HELL!!!!

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Re: Grace [Re: smokintheherb]
    #11185885 -

That good ol time fundamental religion.:thumbup: I grew up in it.:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185893 -

joemolloy said:
Why are Christian beliefs BS, but not yours?  What led you to reject Christianity and accept your current beliefs?


Experiences are what led me to believe what I do. What I believe and what I experience coincide. I never believed in christianity. I guess I call it BS for the same reasons you do.

I basically believe that whatever people call God will interact with you in the way you want. Therefore all religions are real, but not the truth. Behind the curtain is the truth. I do not claim to know the truth but I feel this concept is true based on my experiences.

Christians anthropomorphize God then people say that god caused wars. This is not how I see it. Son of sam said his neighbor's dog told him to kill. Is that the dog's fault?

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185899 -

Band of Gypsys said:
Experiences are what led me to believe what I do. What I believe and what I experience coincide. I never believed in christianity. I guess I call it BS for the same reasons you do.

I basically believe that whatever people call God will interact with you in the way you want. Therefore all religions are real, but not the truth. Behind the curtain is the truth. I do not claim to know the truth but I feel this concept is true based on my experiences.

Christians anthropomorphize God then people say that god caused wars. This is not how I see it. Son of sam said his neighbor's dog told him to kill. Is that the dog's fault?



Describe the experiences.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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