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Christianity is Spiritual * 1
    #7533763 -

It's not about just trying to follow rules. It's not a dead doctrine which stunts the growth of an individual. It's not just some religion to take refuge in if you want to stop thinking.

There are people here that claim to be spiritual and don't even believe in spirit.

The communication that takes place between a true believer and God is entirely spiritual. The love and communion that takes place is what I yearn for more than anything else. It is a love which has no bounds.

I am the type of person that could sit and meditate in silence everyday for hours and enjoy it. I didn't believe in spirits, but I sat there and enjoyed myself. It was pretty one sided.

I practiced no manipulation or resistance to what is. Looking back I am guessing that by doing this I was inviting the presence of any spirit as long as it didn't try to ruin my one sided self centered existence.

I enjoyed playing with my time this way until things hit the fan and I bumped into the real deal. It took an encounter with the spiritual realm to show me that the way I was going about things was not in my best interest. If I could convey what exactly happened, we'd see eye to eye.

So once you are exposed to this realm, God's existence is not in question. The only question is how do I get myself out of this mess? After much suffering, I finally came to see it God's way. I'm not calling the shots.

Since then a two way relationship has emerged, and I too feel estranged from those who claim to be Christian who don't know what a relationship like this is.

Instead of sitting in silence by myself, I can sit and talk with God for hours. He rains down his love on me and brings me a joy which I have never known. I am only beginning to realize what unconditional love is.

We couldn't have this relationship when I wanted to be the center of creation and pretend to be God. We couldn't have this relationship when I wasn't willing to take a knee and and come with a sense of thanksgiving.

I didn't become a follower of Christ because of my great faith. He gave me faith when I needed it most.

I am only as strong as my time spent alone in prayer because I can't walk alone any longer. I realize that our creator wants a relationship with us like parents want with their children.

Coming out of the darkness was the most painful thing I've ever done. It is very humbling, and once you get out into the light and become willing to turn from the old dark path, do the real trials begin.

The light cannot stand darkness, so it is now a practice of letting the light touch the dark hardened parts of my heart. I am learning my place in existence.

It makes me sad to see Jesus mocked because of apathetic hypocritical Christians. When you come to know Jesus, it is the most beautiful spiritual thing. If it is real, it should not be dead and mindlessly preaching doctrine.

I cannot transmit faith to you. I didn't manufacture it myself. I pray that God moves on this board and that He gets glory for Himself in whatever way that be.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7533894 -

Nice post.

I respect your views, but I suggest you further your research.

The Christ is real, but his name sure ain't Jesus...

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Middleman]
    #7534186 -

Middleman said:
Nice post.

I respect your views, but I suggest you further your research.

The Christ is real, but his name sure ain't Jesus...



Right. Iesus (Greek), Y'shua (Hebrew) or Issa (Aramaic).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7534349 -

Native Americans had a "scapegoat" sacrifice for thousands of years...

They would capture the fiercest bear they could find, tie it up, and whisper the taboos they had broken (their "sins") into it's ear.

They then pierced it's side and drank it's blood before killing it and eating it's body.

Interesting...



"Sin" was the ancient Sumerian / Babylonian / Arabic word for the Moon, also interesting.

It's been Aten vs. Amon all along, Sun vs. Sin... keep digging.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Middleman]
    #7534415 -

I envy Christians for their ability to have such unwavering devotion to an entity that may or may not exist.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Boots]
    #7534505 -

fuck that, christians dont believe in dinosaurs or the geico caveman!:rofl:


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7534515 -

Interesting post, though a bit vague in one respect, so I'm not sure how to reply. If you can provide additional information by answering a simple question, it would make things clear for me.

Would a rose by another name still smell so sweet?

Thanks in advance, and please know that though I may or may not agree with your post in it's totality, I will not attempt to question the validity of your experience.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Edited by Rahz (10/19/07 08:47 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7534520 -

The communication that takes place between a true believer and God is entirely spiritual.

I feel the same way about my dog Frankie.:thumbup: Except for the fact  there is some evidence for my dog actually being around.

I pray that God moves on this board and that He gets glory for Himself in whatever way that be.

And I pray that folk who think we all need their fucking made up God to make our life worthwhile just because theres ain't will go to a Christian forum and quit mucking up P&S, or at lest post this undebatable non-sense in the Mystery forum.:whoa:

Have a nice day.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/19/07 08:51 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7534529 -

:rofl2:


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: ZShroom]
    #7534685 -

Why worship Christ and not someone else? Why not worship Ghandi?


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Droz]
    #7534692 -

Why worship? :what:


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Droz]
    #7534700 -

so palmersc, u think that u were born not good enough and must change because u were born a sinner.
I think i was born better than i ever will be and people like u with ur beliefs instill hatred and evil in the world. I am just fine without you and ur people telling me i am not good enough! thanks thou maybe someone will believe ur book of grownup fairytails


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Droz]
    #7534762 -

Droz said:
Why worship Christ and not someone else? Why not worship Ghandi?


God is worshipped by being in Christ. Being in Christ is what the whole New Testament is about, not 'worshipping' Christ. Being in Christ is a Present state of Being and has little to do with the man Iesus whose name and form became identified with the Logos. St. Paul speaks about 'having the mind of Christ.' This means having the mind of Logos, which in the words of R.M. Bucke, in the year 1900 translated into "Cosmic Consciousness."

One can place Christ [Consciousness] on a pedestal in the symbol of a cross, crucifix, bread & wine, fish, alpha & omega, or any other number of symbols, and kneel before them, or one can enter into the mind of Christ at any moment and experience degrees of [comm]union with omnipresent Being (which is God's immanence).

The Christian tradition calls the 'anointed' state of Being Christos, Christ. It is the mind of the Logos. It was the Hellenistic Jewish author called John that made this identification of Christ with Logos. One defintion of Logos is 'Word,' another identification of John's. John however, did not originate the idea of Logos, it originated with Greek philosophers and was explicated by the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria who was a contemporary of Iesus.

Anyway, it is about 'Being in Christ,' not worshipping Christ, where Christ is the 'anointed' state of Being. In the eastern traditions it is called Enlightenment. The common misunderstanding and misuse of the word 'Christ' as referring to the man Iesus who so epitomized the divinely (i.e., transcendental)
state that He became known as Iesus Christ, or Iesus the Christ which is a tad better, causes most people to picture the archetypal long-haired bearded image of the 1st century itinerant teacher. For St. Paul, the very 'architect' of Christianity, he never knew or spoke of the man Iesus as someone to be worshipped, he spoke of 'Christ Iesus' to refer to that particular manifestation or vehicle of Christhood (among others!). Most importantly, Paul never spoke of bodily resurrections like the tomb narratives do (which were written years after Paul wrote). It is about Being in the 'anointed' state, the mind of Christ, of the Logos, God's Immanence "in whom we live and move and have our being."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/19/07 10:53 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7534873 -

God is worshipped by being in Christ.

Right, so you can choose to believe what ever helps you to "be in" the fullness of your being. My only real problem with the common Christian is their belief that theirs is the only path to salvation or whatever. That is just arrogant non-sense and fear based delusion. I was severely abused with this ugliness as a child so now I like to hunt these people down and shoot holes in there non-sense when ever possible. I would prefer that others not endure this crap because no one stood up to their, IMO, self-defeating LIES.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/19/07 10:55 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7534886 -

Yeah, i mean my uncle is a christian leader for his church, I want some things I can use to shoot holes in his beliefs without being rude and hurtful. I know u got something for me icelander


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: ZShroom]
    #7534908 -

As long as he leaves it in church you have no problems.

If he bugs you tell him you know he's right but you really just love SATAN and there isn't a fucking thing he or you can do about it. Then scream really loud in his face. FUCK YOUR JESUS,SATAN AND HIS MINIONS WILL RULE ALL!:hellfire: This would most likely scare him off of bugging you. If it doesn't work then PM me. We can mock his beliefs with some bible verses.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/19/07 11:03 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7534915 -

:rofl2::rofl:nice


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #7534940 -

Rahz said:
Would a rose by another name still smell so sweet?



The name Jesus holds a lot of power in the spiritual realm. When fending off evil spirits, it is the only thing that offers protection in my experience.


I can understand what many think when I mention spirits. This forum should be called philosophy, or maybe I need a better definition of spirituality.

Because what I've seen is a war going on for souls here on earth. The proud who see no reason to worship like I did are treading in some dangerous waters. If you saw somebody drowning, you would offer help.


Icelander.... I don't know if you know how real what Castaneda is talking about is. The spiritual realm is more real than anything you can see here. Castaneda cannot be debated either. I'm talking about having an encounter with what he calls the nagual. It's some serious stuff, and I don't doubt those tales of power. I do doubt the teaching's integrity.

What I found in navigating through my own confusion is there are two different types of wisdom. Head and heart wisdom. Get a big head and lose your heart, and sure I won't doubt you can do some dark things. But the Father calls on those who have hearts of children.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You will know Castaneda by his fruits. It's obvious what type of tree that man was by looking at his relationships with others.


13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The gate is indeed narrow. I used to hear about the gateless gate, but that is a bunch of nonsense. If you think you have found the gateless gate, you are on the broad road my friend. When you find the gate, you know. All confusion vanishes and your standing on rock.

It's not necessary to dabble with the occult.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7534963 -

All you are doing is babbling non-sense. You provide no evidence of anything you say. My guess is thinking like this is suffering a mental illness and is delusional. The beginning stages of being nuts but societies version of "normal" This is fertile ground for the Christian message. :sheepie:


By the way. BOO!  :batboy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7534980 -

Jesus is meant to be worshiped, and a couple of times it mentions him being worshiped in the flesh.

Clearly you are twisting the words of Paul to meet your agenda. I flipped through only a few pages before I saw him speak of Jesus as much more than an enlightened man.


19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


-Ephesians 1:19 - 1:23

Edited by palmersc (10/19/07 11:31 AM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc] * 1
    #7535002 -

Jesus was not just a moral or enlightened man... the way I see it he was the embodiment of Compassion itself. So if you became the archetype of Compassion you could call yourself Christ and you would have quite a lot of responsibility because your heart would plead with you to heal the wounded... and there are a lot of wounded on Earth.

To worship Christ is to embody the archetype of Compassion.


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7535006 -

Indiana is the heart of the Bible Belt. Also one of the most polluted states in the Union. Could there be a connection? :doggull:  :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7535017 -

EternalCowabunga said:
Jesus was not just a moral or enlightened man... the way I see it he was the embodiment of Compassion itself. So if you became the archetype of Compassion you could call yourself Christ and you would have quite a lot of responsibility because your heart would plead with you to heal the wounded... and there are a lot of wounded on Earth.

To worship Christ is to embody the archetype of Compassion.


Be careful what you say. You could go to hell and have to deal with Icelander. And I have bad gas.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7535025 -

can't be worse than Gary.



that's Gary, Indiana..

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7535029 -

Ehhh, Jews don't believe in hell  :bigjoint:


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7535081 -

You're lucky. Because in fairyland whatever you believe is true.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7535096 -

I used to live in San Francisco, but not all my dreams came true. :confused:


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7535099 -

Fairyland?... I always thought it was called Imaginationland



The only land where you can make friends with ice-cream shitting tacos :cool:


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7535154 -

Maybe you're right. Or intelligent design land. I like to call it fairyland. :shirtlesssoldier:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7535862 -

Icelander said:
God is worshipped by being in Christ.

Right, so you can choose to believe what ever helps you to "be in" the fullness of your being. My only real problem with the common Christian is their belief that theirs is the only path to salvation or whatever. That is just arrogant non-sense and fear based delusion. I was severely abused with this ugliness as a child so now I like to hunt these people down and shoot holes in there non-sense when ever possible. I would prefer that others not endure this crap because no one stood up to their, IMO, self-defeating LIES.


Whereas I agree with you here, I do not agree with the way you're allowing your own pain to poison your response to ZShroom. Regardless of which tradition embodies 'The Way,' whether Christian, Taoist, Buddhist or whatever,  compassion, agape (dispassionate love), or altruism characterizes 'The Way.' Your anger is a dark cloud and lightning bolt in the cloudless sky of our Ground of Being. Hurling thunder bolts belongs to demigods like Thor :smile:, but not the Ground from which they too are formed. In other words, it too belongs to the egoistic mind in a negative way.

That a Fundamentalist Christian holds the superstitious idea that the compassion of a Taoist or a Buddhist or a Jew cannot be identical to the compassion of a Christian only attests to the incontestable ignorance that underlies the nature of religious intolerance and bigotry. It further illustrates that the mentality of the Fundamentalist cannot understand the subtlety of language in conveying sublime truth.

Fundamentalist mentality is, in a very real way, retarded. It has remained at a developmental level that cannot process metaphor and symbol which point to a dimension of consciousness that cannot be grasped by thought. It cannot perform a "phenomenological reduction" and perceive invariant or universal features in a variety of differing forms. Not only that, when I have affirmed that the uniqueness of Iesus is based on a mythological overlay rather than an actual ontological status, I am often accused of denying the 'Deity of Christ.' In reality, I am affirming the Deity of all human beings as our essential nature, including Iesus of course. Iesus is the archetype, the paradigm for every human who has ever lived. What applied to Him, applies to us. This is what the Truth about Iesus is, as Grace Slick once sang: "...any man's story..." Iesus on a pedestal is worse than useless, it separates and prevents the union which unites humans under compassion. The divinity of Christ Iesus lies in His humanity, in His Compassion.

Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7535873 -

EternalCowabunga said:
Jesus was not just a moral or enlightened man... the way I see it he was the embodiment of Compassion itself. So if you became the archetype of Compassion you could call yourself Christ and you would have quite a lot of responsibility because your heart would plead with you to heal the wounded... and there are a lot of wounded on Earth.

To worship Christ is to embody the archetype of Compassion.


I couldn't have stated it better myself.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7536361 -

palmersc said:
The communication that takes place between a true believer and God is entirely spiritual. The love and communion that takes place is what I yearn for more than anything else. It is a love which has no bounds.


Except to gays and non believers. Oh well. And women! The Bible is a nasty, hateful book, with less coherance than meine kampf. If I want spirituality, I don't need some book that says I can't eat shellfish for it, I just need to go out into the woods.


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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7537228 -

Icelander said:
My only real problem with the common Christian is their belief that theirs is the only path to salvation or whatever. That is just arrogant non-sense and fear based delusion. I was severely abused with this ugliness as a child so...


I agree completely with that this belief is based in fear. It is a defense mechanism against death-terror, as you commonly state. (I also was severly abused as a child with fundamental Christianity.) My entire problem with these missionary-type religions is that they perform missions.

Leave people alone. There is no need to push your own (are they truly even your own?) views onto people who have not sought out those views. You aren't spreading the love of God. You are forcing it upon people to validate your beliefs which hide you from your own fears of death and eternal damnation (an utterly ridiculous concept that a child's logic can reduce to nonsense in a matter of minutes). True Christianity of the likes I've seen in the writings of San Juan de la Cruz is amazing. It's true transcendental communion. This spouting off of bible verses of assumed authority and inability to recognize or comprehend symbolism is a sure sign of a stunted psyche, seemingly safe in its closemindedness and indulgence in "Eros" as Ken Wilber would use it. They need a nice dose of Thanatos followed by Agape expansion.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7537897 -

I've never understood the draw of zen. It's nice, but I want some action. Nothingness just doesn't seem that exciting, and I know there is something more to experience. Adyashanti practiced zen for 15 years before realizing he was trying to hard to find something through nothing.

To me, I see spirits more as untruths which I have allowed myself to believe. They carry an energy with them. All beliefs carry an energy. Wrong beliefs create dark energy. Allowing spirit/kundalini/holy ghost to enter my body opens me up to gods light, which is cast down upon me. These are just words I can choose to use in describing my experience, but all I know is what I experience. This light illuminates my beliefs and energies and allows me to see the darkness for what it is and let it go. When I quit giving a belief weight, it begins to loose it's power over me and I become more free.

The thing I don't do is to try and give god form. The less belief in God I entertain, the better off I am. There are many interesting things in life I cannot explain, but as my understanding grows, I'm not being led anywhere closer to knowing a god of form. Giving god a name feels like I'm trying to make something that is very real, more real than it already is. If I name god, it is because I don't believe and seek to give it form to make it more believable.

Also, while I am concerned with dull repressed Christians, I'm also concerned about Christians who are hopped up on the holy ghost. I like the holy ghost as much as the next guy, but if I create a division between me and god (I am me, the sinner, and god is God), there's no telling what God is going to have me do. And if God tells me to infringe on someone else's liberty, hey, I'm just following the orders of the big guy. What am I going to do, say no to God? Naming god creates separation. Believing I am not god creates separation and can result in a loss of personal responsibility.

The difference is that most Christians are identified with their beliefs, and God is what is not their beliefs. I believe I am not my beliefs, and I am that which is not belief. I am an energetic expression of what god is, and as far as I can tell god is the expression in totality. I don't restrict myself to belief systems developed by other humans, but I find them highly interesting because they are mirrors of myself in many ways.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz]
    #7538406 -

Awesome posts, js and Rahz.  Reading those was a very cool way to start my day. :smile:
Rahz said:
I've never understood the draw of zen. It's nice, but I want some action. Nothingness just doesn't seem that exciting, and I know there is something more to experience. Adyashanti practiced zen for 15 years before realizing he was trying to hard to find something through nothing.

In my very limited understanding it's more about no concepts than no-thing.  Adding no concepts to what is, one sees whether there is nothing or something (and whether there is one seeing).  Paradox. :crazy:


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Lion]
    #7538584 -

bug said:
Awesome posts, js and Rahz.  Reading those was a very cool way to start my day. :smile:
Rahz said:
I've never understood the draw of zen. It's nice, but I want some action. Nothingness just doesn't seem that exciting, and I know there is something more to experience. Adyashanti practiced zen for 15 years before realizing he was trying to hard to find something through nothing.

In my very limited understanding it's more about no concepts than no-thing.  Adding no concepts to what is, one sees whether there is nothing or something (and whether there is one seeing).  Paradox. :crazy:


That's a good way to put it. Perhaps as time goes by it is something I will do, and is not so much a "thing" I try to do. :shrug:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz]
    #7538688 -

I think also, the idea is that nothing holds the potential for all things, so nothing is like the ultimate creative force.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz]
    #7538757 -

Nothingness isn't about "nothingness" as is commonly misunderstood. It's a term referring to the not-self, not only of the person, but of everything in the universe, which is referring to the dependent arising of everything, meaning everything depends on everything and is interrelated. It's not talking about a void of nothingness. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form.

Adyashanti didn't realize he was searching too hard and not getting anything out of Zen. He realized he was searching too hard, and Zen is what eventually led to his enlightenment (according to his story). The fault wasn't in Zen, it was in him.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7538899 -

I do not agree with the way you're allowing your own pain to poison your response to ZShroom. Regardless of which tradition embodies 'The Way,' whether Christian, Taoist, Buddhist or whatever, compassion, agape (dispassionate love), or altruism characterizes 'The Way.' Your anger is a dark cloud and lightning bolt in the cloudless sky of our Ground of Being. Hurling thunder bolts belongs to demigods like Thor :smile:, but not the Ground from which they too are formed. In other words, it too belongs to the egoistic mind in a negative way.

I already am aware of all this. I was just stating fact. :thumbup: Thor used to be one of my favorite superheros. I have tons of unexpressed anger from childhood. I figure it's better to verbalize it where it cannot do major harm rather than getting a gun and blow some dumb fuck away. See what I'm sayin? I work with what I got and I'm not better than I am. I change at whatever pace I am able and accept unconditionally what I am right this very moment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz]
    #7538926 -

The thing I don't do is to try and give god form. The less belief in God I entertain, the better off I am. There are many interesting things in life I cannot explain, but as my understanding grows, I'm not being led anywhere closer to knowing a god of form.

Dude were we separated at birth?:whoa::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7538961 -

if you ever talk shit to christians about what holes they have, they just say they wont knw til heaven, and for them thats enough, and they also brainwash hundreds of kids at each christian school. i knw, i went to one years ago, i also went to catholic, haha talk about a trip


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SITUATION NASTY LIKE COLLEGE CHICKS

- A

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7539203 -

Namaste.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc] * 1
    #7541271 -

Christianity is pretty cool if you are in .5% of people that actually get what it is about, but I think the rest have so put off non-christians that many might as well turn to more effective spiritual practices with less cultural baggage and excessive dogma.

But I think whatever works the best for where you are at.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7543998 -

Divided_Sky said:
Christianity is pretty cool if you are in .5% of people that actually get what it is about, but I think the rest have so put off non-christians that many might as well turn to more effective spiritual practices with less cultural baggage and excessive dogma.

But I think whatever works the best for where you are at.


would someone who went to christian school for 2 1/2 years be let in that .5 percent, because i don't think christianity is cool... anyone with basic moral standards can live up to what normal christians do


--------------------
SITUATION NASTY LIKE COLLEGE CHICKS

- A

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: searchalx] * 1
    #7547462 -

Re: Christianity is Spiritual

Yes - real Christianity is by nature totally spiritual . Most people who call themselves christian are very far from what I consider to be a truly devoted connected christian - so it has a pretty bad name in the west .

Some of you guys here are so mean ! - Even if you truly think he is wrong there is no need for such mean-ness and mocking - you really lower the idea people have of peaceful calm controlled hippy shroomers .
Maybe you dont care - I dont know .


--------------------
The ineffable is not always intangible !

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Mirth]
    #7547477 -

Umm... most of us are no "hippies" here.
Also, you might wanna check what this forum stands for.
Also, if you don't like it, go to the mysticism forum.
Also "mean-ness", as everything else, is in the eye of the beholder.
Also... :bye:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Mirth]
    #7549158 -

Some of you guys here are so mean ! - Even if you truly think he is wrong there is no need for such mean-ness and mocking - you really lower the idea people have of peaceful calm controlled hippy shroomers .
Maybe you dont care - I dont know .


Are you talkin to me? Are you talkin to me?:hissyfit:

You better be careful fella as us bullies will be pickin on you next.:mad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Mirth]
    #7549241 -

If it's any consolation, I agree that people ought not mock that which is sacred to others, even if one inwardly thinks that they are spiritually retarded. I brought 'sacred stones' back from from shrines of Obatala and Oshun at Yorubaland in the heart of Nigeria for a Cuban practitioner of Santeria in Miami. I knew that he would regard these stones with a particular reverence (consecrated stones to the Orishas are used, but these were stones picked from the very place of Afro-Cuban religious origin). I took these as an act of friendship even though I have no personal reverence for such objects.

I do hold scriptural writings with a certain respect in more than one tradition because I am aware of the history and philosophy of religions. I would never demean others' systems of spirituality (barring human sacrifice of course) and all I ask is to be allowed to practice my own rituals, whatever they may be, without hindrance. I do not condemn others for true aspiration to Truth and I do not expect others to interfere with mine. Control is power and power is politics. None of this has anything to do with true spiritual aspiration. Politics are diametrically opposed to true spirituality because power is diametrically opposed to love. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/23/07 05:32 PM)

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7549330 -

It's amazing that so many Christians condemn idol worshiping but still treat Jesus as an idol (and the only idol at that), especially when no idol is universally accessible: only a small fraction of humans--and humans only--can know Christ the idol. Christ consciousness (what we can imagine it to be based on inaccurate, pieced-together texts) however, could be universally accessible and reached through a variety of different mediums and could be synonymous with the enlightened mind of other wisdom traditions. Only in this way, could it be the ONLY way. I agree that the literal fundy interpretation is misguided. It'll only lead to idol worshiping.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7549353 -

Christianity is a state of mind and a state of being a choice. Only true to one who believes it. There is a way of life that is Christian and it is formed like any other state of consciousness. By allowing it to be. By letting its seed grow in your mind. Taking hold of it and making it part of you morals and beliefs. It cannot and will not be true to anyone who does not choose it. In all reality Christianity is a belief that is specific and unique to everyone who chooses to believe it. Because we all add our own bias and personality to it.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Walter1496211]
    #7549688 -

Walter1496211 said:
Christianity is a state of mind and a state of being a choice. Only true to one who believes it. There is a way of life that is Christian and it is formed like any other state of consciousness. By allowing it to be. By letting its seed grow in your mind. Taking hold of it and making it part of you morals and beliefs. It cannot and will not be true to anyone who does not choose it. In all reality Christianity is a belief that is specific and unique to everyone who chooses to believe it. Because we all add our own bias and personality to it.


k , well dont condemn other people to hell why ur at it, a belief ina "state of consciousness" , if its just that, then why do christians condemn everyone but themselves? I know maybe you don't, and i will give you the benefit of the doubt that ur better then that, because u sound like you have a good outlook, so then, if that is so that you dont condemn people, yourself, then how can you deal with calling yourself a christian, when the majority of your group does condemn and are shallow dependant clingers. who cant think for themselves and who somewhere down the line lost honesty to themselves, human nature, and the will to critique beliefs and ideas.


--------------------
SITUATION NASTY LIKE COLLEGE CHICKS

- A

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: searchalx] * 1
    #7550985 -

I cannot speak for them. I can only speak for myself. I agree most Christians are very forward about there beliefs and not shy about preaching hellfire. But me personally (my open onion) I don't think telling someone they are going to hell is very appropriate. Most people who despise Christianity would love for you to sit there and spit out stupid threats, It only solidifies the argument that the person saying those things is really not in touch with what they believe. I believe that I should live my life how I see fit and you should live yours how you see fit. If my example. Or my happiness appeal to you or anyone else ask about it I might be able to tell you how I live and what I think. And asking me why I can call myself a Christian while other Christians do not follow what I believe is like asking my why I call myself an American if our president likes to make wars I don't agree with. I make choices for myself using Christianity as a guide, I don't make choices blindly following others.


--------------------
you see the world through the window of your experience

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Walter1496211] * 1
    #7551601 -

very good response, i hope you continue to grow and love what you do, let nothing stop you :smile:


--------------------
SITUATION NASTY LIKE COLLEGE CHICKS

- A

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: druglord] * 1
    #7551916 -

That's pretty much my take on things.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc] * 1
    #7553467 -

Quote:
The post that started this thread.


While my experience, 2 years ago, was not quite the same, I feel you and I have met many of the same conclusions. I am a Christian, but I generally separate myself from others under the title because I do not like, or moreso hate, what it has become at large, and I feel only 5-10% of the church (the part least exposed, at that) truly represents what it is supposed to be. Of the dozen churches I've been to, I find one was close to what the scriptures would agree with.

But beyond that, I find faith a matter of realizing just how limited our own senses are. I do not place faith in my senses, but rather the experiences and spiritual movements that lead me to see that Christ is the only reconciliation for mankind that works. If someone explained something better, I would accept it. All have failed so far.

There's a lot more that could be said between us, I'm sure, but this is a public forum, and I'm sure what words I've said will be poked and prodded before you get a chance to read them. This is just a shout out of "I hear you and agree." Best of luck in your walk.


--------------------
“Why does Hello Kitty drive us to kill? Is it the cute little bow or the dead, soulless eyes?”

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Tsion]
    #7554803 -

Christ is the only reconciliation for mankind that works.

You're welcome to believe this if it helps you sleep but I see little evidence of the truth of this statement.

Some of the most loving, compassionate and non-violent and centered folk I have come across had no religious beliefs at all.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Icelander]
    #7554811 -

Icelander said:
Christ is the only reconciliation for mankind that works.

You're welcome to believe this if it helps you sleep but I see little evidence of the truth of this statement.

Some of the most loving, compassionate and non-violent and centered folk I have come across had no religious beliefs at all.


You're right, otherwise there wouldn't be so many pagans running around all over the place. Satan's good... real good.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Rahz]
    #7554914 -

Actually the Christians (as far as I know) turned the Pagan God Pan into the Devil so as to be rid of his influence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: Tsion] * 1
    #7555128 -

Quote:
I find faith a matter of realizing just how limited our own senses are. I do not place faith in my senses, but rather the experiences and spiritual movements that lead me to see that Christ is the only reconciliation for mankind that works.



I agree. I put all my trust into my own intelligence and what I could see before I found Jesus... or Jesus found me. I used to think that there was no such thing as sin and that right and wrong were relative truths. That was until I went through a series of experiences which opened my eyes to what is really going on here. The more I learn about the mystery I now have communication with, the more I see how worthless all my endeavors were before.

The faith I have now is a gift from God, and without God's grace or gift, I could not follow Jesus. My faith is not something I just decided to turn on one day. He gave it to me. We can't know God unless He lets us.

I see the world now through a new set of eyes. I have a totally different attitude now, and my old ways are being transformed into His ways without me doing anything but trusting in Him. Even when I am tempted to disobey, I just pray and the temptations dissipate. And whenever I have questionable thoughts, I compare them to scripture to make sure they do not contradict. I am learning to discern between the sources of my thoughts. Whether it be from me, God or the devil. The mind has been a battlefield for me as I had so much junk in there. I've had experiences over the last few months where demons have fled and am feeling much more control over my thought life.

Quote:
If someone explained something better, I would accept it. All have failed so far.



Well a lot of things do make more sense and some even have appeal. But I cannot deny the reality that I am living. I know my eternal soul is at stake here, and I'm not interested in playing around when I see the power God's word has had on my life. This adventure I'm on has a destination, and I know it's real. I have much more joy than anything I ever manufactured in the past.

The path is narrow, but He who begins a good work in us will finish it! Good luck to you too.

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7555428 -

I know my eternal soul is at stake here,

So you better do as you're told or you will be condemned to burn for eternity by an all loving god.:crazy2::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Christianity is Spiritual [Re: palmersc]
    #7555445 -

palmersc said:
I agree. I put all my trust into my own intelligence and what I could see before I found Jesus... or Jesus found me.


It sounds like you had new experiences that transcended old ways of thinking. It is still you - you've simply adopted a conceptual model for interpreting the changes within yourself, how you manage your thoughts, etc.

Quote:
I used to think that there was no such thing as sin and that right and wrong were relative truths.


Why do you think differently now? :sherlock:

I realize you say "that was until I went through a series of experiences...", but you haven't actually proposed ideas as to why you hold a different perspective.

What ideaological basis do you have for believing in "sin" and an objective "right and wrong"?

Quote:
The more I learn about the mystery I now have communication with, the more I see how worthless all my endeavors were before.


Worthless? Aren't you being unduly harsh? Clearly, who you have been prior to these relevatory experiences are responsible for bringing you to these experiences. We learn and grow. :wink:

Quote:
The faith I have now is a gift from God, and without God's grace or gift, I could not follow Jesus.


Define "g*d", please. The term is far too ambigious for it to be employed in open discussion of ideas without providing specifically what it is meant by it.

Quote:
I see the world now through a new set of eyes. I have a totally different attitude now, and my old ways are being transformed into His ways without me doing anything but trusting in Him.


Trusting in yourself and reality, perhaps? :strokebeard:

Quote:
Even when I am tempted to disobey, I just pray and the temptations dissipate.


To disobey? Do you mean, when you have different ideas of how you prefer to act, and you consider one of them to be more right?

To be perfectly honest, your mental sense of identity sounds as though it is divided into a master/slave relationship, between different identities that are competing. Using the term "disobey" strengthens the suspicion. I'd suggest finding ways to unify your sense of identity into one, healthy whole. Of course, this would mean realizing that one's mind is oneself, and that one's conceptions of "g*d" and "Jesus" are simply abstract identities that one has created to achieve an end. 

Quote:
I am learning to discern between the sources of my thoughts. Whether it be from me, God or the devil.


You are the source of all of your thoughts, my friend. You've adopted a psychological model of your thoughts that isn't the healthiest, and certainly not necessary. 

Quote:
The mind has been a battlefield for me as I had so much junk in there.


A battlefield? Using this term implies that you have been suffering. It might be necessary to realize the source of your suffering is not the fact that you are a sinner, or that the "Devil" thinks some of your thoughts, or that you yourself "disobey" g*d, but because you have adopted this model of "psychology".

Ultimately, the framework within which you manage your thought processes does not reflect the reality of how one's mind actually works. Suffering is evidence of this, the perspective that one's mind is divided between distinct entities is evidence of this....

I'd suggest reflecting on the idea that all of your thoughts are you. Realize that you are a being that is in a state of constant change and expression, and that, of course, there are going to be thoughts that will lead you down one path, while other thoughts will lead you down another. Our identity is composed of individual thoughts, but we are one identity. It just changes. Holding an ideal of who you are and who you wish to be, and placing your intention within it, is the most effective manner in which to approach the matter, I find. Thoughts that do not reflect this are not the "devil", it is simply a disparity in your thought processes that would lead you down another course. It simply a matter of deciding which course is yours, and guiding your thoughts along that course.

Quote:
I know my eternal soul is at stake here, and I'm not interested in playing around when I see the power God's word has had on my life. This adventure I'm on has a destination, and I know it's real. I have much more joy than anything I ever manufactured in the past.


Can you elaborate upon the idea that your "eternal soul" is at stake here, please?



Thought to clarify, since there has been some dicussion regarding it in this thread - P&S is a forum for open, criticial discussion. When an individual chooses to propose one's nature and one's beliefs as the ideas for discussion, then it is to be expected that discussion will follow suit as other posters decide, provided, of course, that there are no personalisms and flaming. If anyone is not interested in engaging the ideas they propose in open discussion, then I propose the alternative forum, M&tP, in which one's beliefs are free from challenge and debate. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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