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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Spirituality or materialism?
    #4328315 - 06/23/05 01:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Which area do you direct your efforts and focus towards?

I believe in a Creator (God if you will). I believe that this Creator cares for us, is omnipotent, is intelligent, and is beyond our comprehension.

I think that this Creator expects certain kinds of behavior and devotion from us. I can think of nothing more important and noble in this world than the love of and devotion to the Creator. Granted, sometimes people do stupid stuff because of that basic belief (Islamic terrorists, Christian extremists, etc...).

But, even though I view devotion to the Creator as being supremely important, it is easy to forget about he/she/it. I don't see the Creator. I don't talk to the Creator. I don't feel the Creator's presence. Because I don't experience any mental or physical stimuli from the Creator, I notice myself focusing more on my immediate world and my immediate desires. I think about my comfort, my stuff, my accomplishments, my pleasure, and to some extent my status.

I am a very dualistic person. I view spiritual faith in something as being a noble pursuit, yet I consistently focus on my human desires. I end up only thinking about the Creator when I am in trouble, depressed, or hurting. When things are good, I focus on myself. I view this as being selfish, but I don't think I can help it.

It is so weird to have lofty spiritual aspirations and yet at the same time to be so focused on base instinctual drives.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4328404 - 06/23/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That is why people use psychedelics and meditation ect.

Some are satisfied with material life. You are not. That certainly is no guarantee of a more joyful or easy life. In fact....

It's all in the effort to surrender to what is. I love a good paradox. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4328556 - 06/23/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You don't have to make any radical change to put more balance in your life. Just changing your perception from them being separate entities can do a lot. Many see the material world here and think God and Spirit are off over there in some distant place. It's all right here right now within it all.

Look to recognize it in laughter, peoples passions, creativity, their struggles and triumphs, a spark in someones eye, the beauty of nature.

The easiest way to bring a greater sense of God/Spirit into your life is through appreciation. Keep feeling thankful for everything you have, your friends, a new day to play in, your health, the trees, music, anything and everything. Take more moments to just appreciate life and the simple things.

You'll "feel" different and more connected if you just do that alone. Those moments of pausing to appreciate are mini meditative moments where you are at one with source in recognition of it.

Even shifting to coming from the heart versus the head can make a big difference in experiencing a greater connection with source. Instead of going through life relating to people through like thinking, shift into understanding and relating to them through like feelings. That can be a very rich inner experience that adds greatly to the feeling of being connected and not spearated.

Just some thoughts and ideas that don't require radical change but can radically change your experience and give you some more of the feeling of connection to source.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4328677 - 06/23/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I learned from Lama Anagarika that the human edifice is divided into 3 realms: instincts (smad) at the foundation, intuition (stod) at the summit, and strictly human (bar) in between. The Heart [He art] mediates the dualism inherent in human beinghood. We are 'Centauric' (to use Ken Wilber's expression) - animal from the Navel Center down, human from the Heart Center up. The hexagram at the Heart is not only a Jewish symbol, it was Indian long before - upward and downward triangles interlaced at THE Center.

Classic Yoga might stress the Sahasrara or Thousand-Petalled Lotus, but the great Jnana Yogi Sri Ramana Maharishi insisted that the Heart Center supported that lotus and all the chakras which belonged to the astral sheath, not the deeper reality of the Heart ('beneath' the Anahata Chakra). Swami Sri Chinmoy pretty much said the same thing, and when Ram Dass asked his Guru Neem Karolie Baba how to raise the Kundalini, he said "Love everybody."

Catholics have the 'Sacred Heart,' encircled by the crown of thorns - the descent from Head to Heart - the experience of the Infinite (Crown) descends to the finite human (Heart). Zen Buddhist Paul Reps wrote: "Head and Heart are not apart."

On the Kabbalistic Tree of Life there is the central sphere called Tiphereth - again, the Heart Center. One must learn to become identified as Tiphereth (which Aleister Crowley called 'The Knowledge and Conversation of One's Holy Guardian Angel') before one can experience the higher spheres. In other words, one must be 'seated' in the Heart Center to experience oneself as a spiritual being having a human experience rather than the natural identification in the lower centers as a human being seeking a spiritual experience.

What more can I say? I hope it makes sense.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4328691 - 06/23/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Still intellectually mixing religions and calling them one Markos? :rolleyes:

That really is the bottom draw of spiritual materialism IMO

Nice to see your presence still around here anyways.


--------------------


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4328717 - 06/23/05 03:29 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I choose the Middle Way. I think it's fine to enjoy having stuff, but don't let your ego get too attached to it. Understand that all this stuff is transient. It will all go away eventually, and you will have to seek happiness from within.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4328728 - 06/23/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"I believe in a Creator (God if you will). I believe that this Creator cares for us, is omnipotent, is intelligent, and is beyond our comprehension. "

even being the Creator, as you?

:confused: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4328738 - 06/23/05 03:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Still intellectually mixing religions and calling them one Markos? :rolleyes:

That really is the bottom draw of spiritual materialism IMO

Nice to see your presence still around here anyways.




Don't they all come from one source? If not where do the others come from? Isn't shamanism at the base?  :mushroom2: :heart: :mushroom2: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Icelander]
    #4328792 - 06/23/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Whether they come from the same source or not is not the issue. Whether they all lead back to that original source is quite more important. As you can probable see, throughout history, Christianity as well as most other religions have been watered down, and messed with by corrupt powers in some way. I always think of it this way, with Christianity for example, has their been another genuine saint such as Jesus Christ manifested here on this planet since? Id say that the lineage of Christ has been grossly bogged down with impurities since the time of Christ.

Therefore much of the methods to contact the original source of the lineage has been lost in time and circumstances. This is certainly not the case with Buddhism or Hinduism for that matter. Hinduism can get one to, what is called the "peak of existence" or even to the level of a great mahasidhha or wisdom holder of that particular lineage of teaching. Can you really say the same about Christianity? or even Islam for that matter?

Anyway, this is just my view, take from it what you will.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4328840 - 06/23/05 04:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know. I think some get it without any formal religion at all. Eckart Tolle comes to mind. Although I personally know of no person who has done any of this. It's all speculative IMO.

The most awake people I have met used either a shamanic path or psychology. And they are rare. I live in a very Buddhist town. And not to pick on them but they don't seem very different than Christians to me. Except for one very important difference. The Buddhists are not fixated on Sin, guilt, shame, evil and punishment. This is much to their credit. They are much more live and let live, unless you want to discuss spirituality. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Icelander]
    #4328870 - 06/23/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Shamanism is great, i have much respect for its emphasis on practical application. Although i feel that the use of entheogens within some systems are not in the least bit necessary at all. I too find many Christian like Buddhist, especially in the Sutra Vehicle. This is mainly because of the emphasis on morality, and precepts, and the fact that many western people who have taken refuge in Buddhism have converted from Christianity. They swap one philosophy for another like a trade-off, but sometimes, some of these people, fail, for a long while maybe, to relinquish there self-grasping attitude toward spirituality. Needless to say there view is much improved for giving up on the negative tendencies of guilt and shame, but nonetheless the attitude of such people tends to still be very Christian in nature. But in any case, I'm sure they suffer far less, and as such are much more content with there final choice of religion.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4328880 - 06/23/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Icelander]
    #4328947 - 06/23/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If you come across any Tibetan Lamas or just plain old Tibetan Buddhists and Bonpos (Tibetan Shamans) for that matter. You will notice a distinct difference in character, attitude, and social disposition than any ordinary Western Christian Sutric Buddhist. :lol:


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Edited by Sinbad (06/23/05 04:56 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4329016 - 06/23/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know why these two are exclusive, they could even be the same thing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329131 - 06/23/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

We have some Tibetian Buddhists here. They don't often speak such good english. I have "friends" that follow them around. I just go by how my friends act. I don't know. I lost interest in them. I like to use some Buddhist ideas on my own pathwork. That's all. I like some of the things Jesus supposedly said also. I like some Taoism. I like Castanada, and a thousand others. I would call my path Shamanic but many would call bullshit on me. Maybe their right. TA DA!  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Icelander]
    #4329165 - 06/23/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Oh No! Not the holy brigade of Tibetan people folowers, there worse than Psudeo Christian/Buddhists. They'll call anyone who wears monks robes and speaks little english Lama. :lol:

But seriously, if you ever come across a good english speaking one, i suggest you have a conversation about spirituality with one, even if he/she is'nt a Lama, it will certainly be quite interesting, i assure you of that.

Jesus gave some deeply influencial one liners, ill give him that. The Tibetans say that for most of his life, he lived in Lhasa, the holy city of Tibet and was actaully taught meditation. Whether any of this is true or not is pure speculation of course. But i find it interesting to note this regardless.

If you are developing progressivly on your spiritual path, whatever mehods you use, i would most certainly not call that bullshit at all! Strive on diligently brother, and the seeds of meritous action will most certainly come to fruition.


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (06/23/05 06:01 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329194 - 06/23/05 06:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: Sweet. I have always wanted to have a conversation with one of those monks that lived up there on the mountains in Tibet. I used to read everything I could get my hands on about them and pre chinese Tibet.

One of the most fascinating books I ever found was called The Long Walk. If you ever run across this book give it a read. I couldn't put it down. :heart: Although not about Spirituality per se, it is an amazing adventure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Icelander]
    #4329231 - 06/23/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Cool, i think ill give that one a read.

Another good one to read, is a book called "Lord of the Dance" by Chagdud Tulku. Its an amazing autobiographical life story, written by the Tulku himself. But its no ordninary one, like some other ones, where they edit all of the mistakes and juicy bits to make him seem more "Gurulike". Its really down to earth and honest as well as humourous. Its a book that really gave me inspiration, like when i read the Milerepa's life story as a child. Its definelty one of the best books ive read this year. I highly recomemed it. It also goes into detail about his perilous escape from Tibet into India during the Chinese takeover. I could not put this book down until i had read it cover to cover. Give it a read if you like. it comes highly recommended on my list.  :thumbup:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1881847004/102-2896595-3009762?v=glance


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Edited by Sinbad (06/23/05 07:13 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329304 - 06/23/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks, I love a good true adventure. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Spirituality or materialism? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4330421 - 06/23/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No mixing, mysticism. Integrity preserved at the most profound level.

Still hating?


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