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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10283125 -

It's both, as this Universe was by Creation and there is so much overwhelming evidence that the book is just about closed on that one but it is by Evolution also as we all evolve as so does even this planet or our world.

  Oh and the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF CREATION!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Evidence of God: DNA http://www.youtube.com/watch...

EVIDENCE OF GOD AGAINST DARWIN http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Evidence Jesus was God http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Evidence of Fossil Records Proves Creation http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Evidence that physics prove the Existence of God on razor edge...GOOD STUFF AND ON HOW HE GOT THE INFO http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Biochemistry Proves The Existence of God
http://www.youtube.com/watch...


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None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free...and...It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: TheSpiritForce]
    #10283142 -

A hundred years of successful, testable predictions overturned by 7 YouTube videos.  Amazing.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: johnm214]
    #10283173 -

johnm214 said:
and what does any scientific theory strive to be but a useful way of describing our observable world?  That's not really a drawback, its the pinnacle of achievment.


Right, people looking for the truth in science will inevitably be disappointed and disillusioned.  Even if god came to the earth and physically told us that evolution did not happen, and he put all fossils in the earth intact - evolution by natural selection would still be the scientific theory because evolution would still make testable, qualitative and quantitative, descriptions and predictions that the theory of 'god put them and us there' cannot make.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10283284 -

"and what does any scientific theory strive to be but a useful way of describing our observable world?  That's not really a drawback, its the pinnacle of achievment. "

It could be useful to say that everything is water, but that doesn't make it correct.  I'm not trying to undermine what evolution can do for us, I am only providing examples of how it could be false, or at least falsely interpreted.

Edited by xFrockx (05/04/09 11:51 AM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283385 -

xFrockx said:
"and what does any scientific theory strive to be but a useful way of describing our observable world?  That's not really a drawback, its the pinnacle of achievment. "

It could be useful to say that everything is water, but that doesn't make it correct.  I'm not trying to undermine what evolution can do for us, I am only providing examples of how it could be false, or at least falsely interpreted.


Lol, good thing you are not around a group of scientists or you would have been ridiculed.  Congratulations on discovering that just because someone states an idea doesn't mean it's correct.

I think I've found a new hobby: troll hunting.


Anyone who is interested in hearing an explanation of the origin of life that does not rely on supernatural deities:


There is enough matter in our 5,974,200,000,000,000,000,000,000kg earth and enough energy in the 1.98892 × 1030kg sun that no further input is needed for life to arise.  This has some interesting implications, like the idea that the universe could be teeming with life or intelligent life that we are unable to detect.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283399 -

Dont confuse the origin of life with the origin of species.  Mr. Mushrooms brought up the theory of evolution which only explains biodiversity - it does not and never claimed to explain abiogenesis.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283402 -

"Lol, good thing you are not around a group of scientists or you would have been ridiculed. "

I come from a college where the philosophy program is almost exclusively logical positivism.  I know about science, trust me on that one, I'm not sure if your post was a dig at me, but if it is you ought to explain yourself a little better than posting a youtube link and suggesting I'd be ridiculed by "scientists" as if they all hold some unified beliefs.  Christ, the more I think about it the less you seem to make sense.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283435 -

Anyone who claims they know science doesn't know science.  Science is the search for objective truth, so claiming that you know science is like claiming that you know objective truth, which you don't.

Actually, never mind.  Don't worry about a thing; everything is exactly what you think it is.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283464 -

Apparently you can't read either.  I said I know about science.  Your little foray into deductive argument is just a straw man.  In my sentence, science is the object of my knowing, it would be totally stupid to say I knew all of science, that's not even possible given its constant development.  Maybe you need to understand that not all people who can be critical of scientific theories are religious wingnuts with an appetite for the gestalt and no knowledge of scientific method.  Read some William James or something.  You're so thick I think I'll risk a retaliatory rating just for you.  Learn to read before arguing philosophy.

Oh, your argument is also invalid, completely, let me drag this out for you:

  "Science is the search for objective truth, so claiming that you know science is like claiming that you know objective truth, which you don't."

1.  Science is the search for objective truth
2.  Knowing science is knowing objective truth
3.  Knowing objective truth is impossible
Therefore, knowing science is impossible.

The problem is #2, you say that science is the SEARCH for objective truth, and rightly so, but you claim that to know science is to know objective truth ITSELF.  How can you say that science is, on one hand, objective truth itself, and on the other, the search for objective truth.  Oh wait, you can't, try again.

Edited by xFrockx (05/04/09 12:47 PM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283521 -

The theory of evolution is not a hypothesis and therefore does not need to be falsifiable.  Experiments that objectively observe the world around us need to be falsifiable, that is, if the hypothesis is false then it needs to be obvious to everyone.

The theory of gravity is technically unfalsifiable because we have no idea if life would exist without gravity.  Hypotheses require falsifiability; theories do not.


xFrockx,

I'm sorry for being a dick earlier.  I read your posts from earlier and realized that I'm being rash.  It's part of my nature.  I am an animal, after all.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Edited by Newfound_wonder (05/04/09 12:50 PM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283532 -

Karl Popper would disagree, all scientific conclusions, for him, must have falsifiability.  What distinguishes real science from pseudoscience is falsifiability.  Astrology does not have it, Biology does.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283543 -

"The theory of gravity is technically unfalsifiable because we have no idea if life would exist without gravity.  Hypotheses require falsifiability; theories do not. "

The theory of gravity was thrown out the door after Einstein's theories of general and special relativity.  Its like the copernican solar system.  Your example is totally irrelevant, and in fact wrong because the theory of gravity WAS shown to be false, to be replaced by a more accurate theory!

Protip:  It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and prove it.

Edited by xFrockx (05/04/09 12:52 PM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283544 -

Fine.  How do we explain the facts then?  Do you have a better explanation that accounts for all the physical, chemical, biochemical, biological, and ecological data?


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Edited by Newfound_wonder (05/04/09 12:52 PM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283560 -

"How do we explain the facts then?"

There aren't any.  "Facts" is just a word in which beliefs are held.

"Do you have a better explanation that accounts for all the physical, chemical, biochemical, biological, and ecological data? "

If I did I would be waiting for the day where someone replaced it with a still better one, just like scientists do.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: xFrockx]
    #10283568 -

Troll on.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283582 -

Wait, what?  Is that just a flame? 

Just when I think we're getting close to common ground you pull that, too much ego man, chill out.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10283584 -

The evolution theory is that all living things have changed in response to environmental conditions by the natural selection of randomly occurring mutations. Evolution is the process by which all living things have developed from primitive organisms through changes occurring over billions of years.  Then you throw in words like adaptive radiation, convergent evolution, punctuated equilibria. Most people think evolution is just a question of, did man evolve from apes? /

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10283602 -

Are the laws of thermodynamics not facts from your perspective?

In my universe, mathematics is the fundamental discipline, and the laws of physics are constant and do not change over time.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Edited by Newfound_wonder (05/04/09 01:02 PM)

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #10283618 -

Newfound_wonder said:
Are the laws of thermodynamics not facts from your perspective?


They are not facts, they are part of thermodynamic theory.  A fact is an observed data point.

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Re: Falsifying evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10283637 -

They are still the part of thermodynamic theory that we used to build the houses, roads, cars, telephones, lasers, missles, satellites, and the very infrastructure that we have grown to depend on.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Edited by Newfound_wonder (05/04/09 01:06 PM)

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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