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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
No Evolution threads allowed.
    #930518 - 10/04/02 02:09 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

They will be locked.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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InvisibleAdom
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #930606 - 10/04/02 02:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Why do people find it so hard believe in the possibility that evolution and God coexist?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Adom]
    #930639 - 10/04/02 02:58 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know... I believe in Creation and Evolution simultaneously working as a team in harmony...


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Shroomism]
    #930673 - 10/04/02 03:08 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see where I said there was no god?
And the thread I made merely provided evidence for evolution. Much like the threads with quotes from the bible back up whatever they are supposed to say.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #931408 - 10/04/02 10:36 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

That's a rather broad statement.  I locked your thread not only because it dealt with evolution but primarily the way in which it was going to be discussed.  As moderators we give great weight to the initial post in a thread.  Your thread was strictly science.

Don't get your knickers in a twist we are probably going to open a science forum soo and you can post about evolution to your heart's content. :smile:

Cheers, 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Registered: 09/14/02
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ]
    #931428 - 10/04/02 10:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

lol. can users who have only been here for weeks be moderators? if so I prematurely nominate myself for the science forum. nyahhhh.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ]
    #932100 - 10/04/02 03:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

so the philosophy forum is going to turn into an unintelligable, religious dogma nonsense forum. no facts allowed just idiocy. if you want to talk about facts then go to the science forum right?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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OfflineCleverName
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: 1stimer]
    #932198 - 10/04/02 04:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

maybe we should add the science forum in here


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: 1stimer]
    #932292 - 10/04/02 04:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

so the philosophy forum is going to turn into an unintelligable, religious dogma nonsense forum. no facts allowed just idiocy. if you want to talk about facts then go to the science forum right?

*shudder*
I hope not.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: CleverName]
    #932398 - 10/04/02 05:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

maybe we should add the science forum in here

I agree.....


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ChubbSubb]
    #932525 - 10/04/02 06:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know how that's going to work...

Are you suggesting SUB-forums?

S&P
-Esoterica
-Science
-Theory (Scholarly stuff)
-Religion

I don't know... I think it might just get a little out of hand with the classifications.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #932538 - 10/04/02 06:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah it would get really messy...

A lot of people show support for the Science and Technology forum...

How about this..


Science and Technology Forum
Yes
No, That stuff belongs in S&P




Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Shroomism]
    #932682 - 10/04/02 07:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Actually- I vote 'NO, unless...'

I think S&P can handle it... a Science forum is unnecessary. The problem arises when Science conflicts with Fantasy. It's funny that philosophy can handle science, but you can't get a Ph.D. in Alien Studies. Whatever... I'm just that asshole skeptic, right???

[edit: some stuff]


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Edited by Sclorch (10/04/02 07:56 PM)


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Shroomism]
    #932695 - 10/04/02 07:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I voted no, that stuff belongs in S&P.


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Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
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Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ]
    #932803 - 10/04/02 08:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I can't believe that an evolution thread can't be put in the S&P forum. As we all know, most philosophy arises out of questions that science brings and most science arises out of philosophical questions. It is a beautiful relationship that can't be divided.

I agree if we are just discussing the definition of evolution or other science then that isn't necessarily appropriate. Evolution is a very philosophical subject indeed.

Being a mod. doesn't make your opinion fact. If a discussion arises that hasn't been previously discussed in some university textbook, that doesn't make it non-philosophical. There are many ideas and opinions. If the question even needs to be asked "is this philosophical" then it belongs in this forum. Only the painfully obvious non-philosophical threads should be moved or locked.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: chemkid]
    #932907 - 10/04/02 09:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Only the painfully obvious non-philosophical threads should be moved or locked.

Oh GREAT!
I bet you'd tell me that a post about the allosteric regulation of phosphofructokinase shouldn't be allowed in S&P either. :wink:
What is this world coming to?! 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #932958 - 10/04/02 09:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, enzymes can be a very philosophical topic. Especially when you get into protein folding. I'm sure it is dreadfully boring to most but I find it fascinating.

Again, if we are just giving science lessons then I agree that it shouldn't be in S&P. Otherwise.....let's talk!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: chemkid]
    #932993 - 10/04/02 09:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, enzymes can be a very philosophical topic. Especially when you get into protein folding. I'm sure it is dreadfully boring to most but I find it fascinating.

Yeah, I'm a sucker for that stuff too...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: chemkid]
    #933049 - 10/04/02 10:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sir Tripsalot seems to be hellbent on causing division and controversy in S&P. A debate can be healthy and promote thinking or it can be instigated merely to cause fighting among the members. The former is great for a forum, the latter is not. This is just common sense.

There are dividing lines and implicit rules for posting in S&P whether anyone is aware of them or not.

Rule number one is that the subject must have a direct link to either spirituality or philosophy and that link must be evident in the title and/or the initial post in the thread.

Pure science is not to be discussed here anymore than politics or mushroom cultivation. These lines of demarcation are not arbitrary and they are in place for a reason. This is common sense. Those that are anarchist or anti-authority will see any restriction on their posting as unfair, unreasoned, mean, or anything else negative that they can think of but that certainly does not mean it is so.

The topic of evolution can easily be discussed here if a person follows some reasonable guidelines. Here are just a few examples:

Title: Evolution creates a problem for philosophy

"I just wanted to point out that evolution is a fact and that it changes the metaphysics portion of philosophy because it shows that man evolved from a bunch of chemicals. That means he cannot have freewill and that consciousness is nothing but an electro-chemical reaction in our brains."

Title: Teleology should be included in science.

"Currently in science teleology is excluded because it shows that there are reasons for the existence of things and that the reason can be shown to have spiritual links."

Bad example; Title: Dinosaur fossils prove evolution to be true.

"The recent discovery of certain fossils prove beyond any doubt that evolution is a fact and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong."

Imagine a loud buzzer going off when the last thread is started in S&P.

Wrong!

Currently we do not have a place to discuss evolution other than the Chill Out forum or OTD. They are "catchall" forums to discuss whatever dosn't fit anywhere else. And sorry to say, evolution, when discussed from a scientific viewpoint does not belong here.

In fact, this thread, the second one Sir Tripsalot started lately, is not about spirituality or philosophy either. It rightfully belongs in the suggestion forum.

Have a subject that is either directly philosophical or spiritual? Post it in this forum. Not? Find somewhere else to post it.

Cheers,


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (10/05/02 03:04 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ]
    #933067 - 10/04/02 10:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm....

I see your point... but you should take into consideration the audience he wishes to address.

Maybe he thinks he'll get better responses here.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #933094 - 10/04/02 10:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I think that evolution threads should be allowed in here, I am a highly spiritual being but I believe in the concept of evolution. I don't believe any of this is as black and white as creationism vs. evolution.

I have a theory that the conciousness willed change and change always has and always will continue to occur because its the will of our One Conciousness.... its a little more complex i suppose but thats the jist.

anyhoo, my point is that evolution can be a spiritual concept therefore such topic should not be banned from this area.

I think it would be very cool to have a Science and technology forum, but there shouldn't be such restriction on what we may post here.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #933095 - 10/04/02 10:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

hmmmmm, aren't there some philosophical implications about what deems something to be philosophy or not? Very sticky subject.

Elect me as your president and free cheesburgers for everyone!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #933108 - 10/04/02 10:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

>but you should take into consideration the audience he wishes to address.

i feel the same way when art and poetry randomly shows up in here, but really there is no reason this audience can't spread themselves through-out the other forums... and it would be cool to see some of you in off topic making people actually think about what they are saying :wink:  (all in the name of fun and good spirits of course) 


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: ]
    #933148 - 10/04/02 11:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You let people discuss bible quotes proving that god exists to me and other athiest in here but NOO people who don't believe in evolution get protected from evidence of our beliefs. By closing my thread you have also claimed that evolution is no longer a theory and now fact, some in here may find that offensive.
I've talked with Mods in here and an admin and both agree it shouldnt have been locked.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #933157 - 10/04/02 11:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

there have been other threads that discussed evolution, but generally evolution vs. some religious belief...


maybe they just don't want you here :wink:

(don't worry, they don't want me here either)  :grin: 


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Anonymous

Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Sclorch]
    #933224 - 10/04/02 11:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Oh I think he was shooting for a target audience all right. But he sorely missed it.

He has the misconception that evolution is a religious issue. People who believe in evolution, and that is what they are, i.e. believers, are always trying to couch the issue and make it a religious debate. It isn't.

I have explained why evolution can be discussed provided it is discussed within the framework set up here. I will not repeat myself on this issue again and I will move all threads that step outside that framework. Of course I think he knew that and was testing boundaries.

Don't get me wrong. I love to discuss evolution from all sides and I am not interfering with anyone's right to post about as long as they do so in the right way.

Here are a few books that I keep on the shelves near the computer for reference. I have about 200 in all and these are the ones related to evolution:

Understanding Scientific Reasoning by Ronald N. Giere

The Face That Demonstrates the Farce of Evolution by Hank Hanegraaff

The Science of God by Gerald L. Schoreder

Origin of Species by Charles Darwin

One Long Argument; Charles Darwin and the Genesis of Modern Evolutionary Thought by Ernest Mayr

Reinventing Darwin; the Great Debate at the High Table of Evolutionary Theory by Niles Eldredge

Full House; The Spread of Excellence from Plato to Darwin by Stephen J. Gould

The Pattern of Evolution by Niles Eldredge

Darwin's Black Box; The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J. Behe

Bergson's Creative Evolution by Henri Bergson

Consilience; The Unity of Knowledge; Edward O. Wilson

The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins

Ontogeny and Phylogeny by Stephen J. Gould

Darwin on Trial by Phillip E. Johnson

The Touchstone of Life; Molecular Information Cell Communication and the Foundations of Life by Werner R. Loewenstein

Process and Pattern in Evolution by Charlotte J. Avers

Rock of Ages; Science and Religion and the Fullness of Life by Stephen J. Gould

Conant: Science and Common Sense by James B. Conant

Defeating Darwinism by Phillip E. Johnson

The Blind Watchmaker; Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design by Richard Dawkins

Lucy; The Beginnings of Human Kind by Donald Johanson and Maitland Edey

A Moment in Time with Sinosauropteryx by Phillip J. Currie, Eva Koppelhus and Jan Sovak

Rationality of Science by W. H. Newton-Smith

Unended Quest; An Intellectual Autobiography by Karl Popper

Conjectures and Refutations by Karl Popper

The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. Kuhn

The Creation Hypothesis; Scientific Evidence for an Intelligent Designer by J. P. Moreland

Mere Creation; Science, Faith, and Intelligent Design by Micheal Behe, David Berlinski, Phillip Johnson, et al

Wonderful Life; The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History by Stephen J. Gould

Evolution: A Theory in Crisis by Michael Denton

Origins Reconsidered; In Search of What Makes us Human by Richard Leakey


I have read them all and studied this "theory" for over 30 years.

So, I think I might have a little idea about where a thread on evolution should go.

Thank you.

That is all.





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Anonymous

Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #933231 - 10/04/02 11:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Gosh, it sounds an awful lot like the issue isn't about evolution at all but how far you can push your ideas.

I really don't care who you have talked to.

Don't push this too far Trips. 

If you've come to me for a fight you will end up on the losing end of the stick.

I guarantee it.  :mad:
 


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #933325 - 10/05/02 12:32 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I want you to do your worst, I want a fight. I want you to get me banned. Biggest power trip on the shroomery. You started the fight :smile: I will not roll over and shut up for you.Haha He posts in locked threads too, your such a cock man really.Why dont you post the PM? so they can see it, I said that you started this.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


Edited by sir tripsalot (10/05/02 01:57 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #933376 - 10/05/02 12:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Damn, I missed it thanks to Mr_Mushroom's editing. Can't we all just get along?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: No Evolution threads allowed. [Re: Evolving]
    #933578 - 10/05/02 01:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Evidently not. Trips indicated in a PM to me that he has never liked me and started this to cause a fight.



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