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 TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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 Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS  [Re: Acidic_Sloth]
#746950 - 07/15/02 12:22 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't hold all beliefs as false... In fact, it never would have crossed my mind to question my own original christian faith if it weren't for the irregularities and contraditions I encountered.
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 World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Deleted by admin
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#746953 - 07/15/02 12:24 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Steve, do you believe that there may be a parallel between this finding and Genesis 3:14?
Hmm... This is hard to say.
Genesis 3:14 seems to imply that the snake did once have legs, although it doesn't state that directly. However, my personal belief is that this is just a myth trying to explain why the snake doesn't have legs and why it is a feared enemy of humans, much like Native American myths that explain why crows are black for example.
This, I know you don't agree with b/c of your post in which you say you believe the Bible is a documentation of historical fact, but I am just giving you my personal thoughts because you asked for them 
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Namaste.
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
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Deleted by admin
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Acidic_Sloth
Acidic poly-Sided Di-slothamide
Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 43,732
Loc: ainrofilac
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> I don't hold all beliefs as false...
I didn't mean it that way.. but it might have sounded like that was what I was implying. Sorry, dear.
> In fact, it never would have crossed my mind to question my own original christian faith if it weren't for the irregularities and contraditions I encountered.
I've never been REALLY religious, but there was a time when I believed that God existed and that he created the earth and all it's beings. I too encountered those irregularities and contradictions you spoke of and that is what made me question what REALLY was going on.
I love you Hermity.
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-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --
JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong
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JaP: Nothing, I tell you.
 
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Acidic_Sloth
Acidic poly-Sided Di-slothamide
Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 43,732
Loc: ainrofilac
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 Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#746960 - 07/15/02 12:30 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Remember.. this is a "friendly" arguments, so don't get your panties in a tiwst, love.
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-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --
JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong
Ped: only in #shroomery is "smuggle opium in her ass" followed by "i don't want shitty opium" which is followed by " *** Joins: PENISSQUAD"
--
JaP: What would this place be without random sluts?
JaP: Nothing, I tell you.
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Nomad
Mad Robot
Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#746962 - 07/15/02 12:30 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why are there no monkeys even closely resembling humans?
Because we killed them all. Sad but true.
And by the way, humans didn't evolve from monkeys. Monkeys and humans have a common ancestor. We killed that one, too.
Apart from that, the theory of evolution is indeed bullshit, though not because of the things you pointed out. I highly recommend "Darwin's black box" by Michael Behe. The problem with evolution is at the biochemistry level.
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TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: Nomad]
#746963 - 07/15/02 12:31 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Leave it to the biochemists to muck something up
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: Acidic_Sloth]
#746966 - 07/15/02 12:33 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Acidic_Sloth
Acidic poly-Sided Di-slothamide
Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 43,732
Loc: ainrofilac
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#746968 - 07/15/02 12:40 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good.
SH: Yeah.. leave it to the bloody biochemists.. they're Nazis I tell you, NAZIS! They're racist against monkeys!
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-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --
JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong
Ped: only in #shroomery is "smuggle opium in her ass" followed by "i don't want shitty opium" which is followed by " *** Joins: PENISSQUAD"
--
JaP: What would this place be without random sluts?
JaP: Nothing, I tell you.
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erectronik
newbie
Registered: 03/13/02
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Loc: zeitung unter den See
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: Nomad]
#746971 - 07/15/02 12:43 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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You mind doing us the luxury of an example arguement of Behe's, Nomad?
I'm damn interested.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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Acidic_Sloth
Acidic poly-Sided Di-slothamide
Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 43,732
Loc: ainrofilac
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: erectronik]
#746973 - 07/15/02 12:43 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah.. I'm damn interested too.
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-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --
JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong
Ped: only in #shroomery is "smuggle opium in her ass" followed by "i don't want shitty opium" which is followed by " *** Joins: PENISSQUAD"
--
JaP: What would this place be without random sluts?
JaP: Nothing, I tell you.
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deepr
the dancer
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 238
Loc: nzl
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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 Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: Acidic_Sloth]
#747018 - 07/15/02 02:14 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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go and read up on the pandas thumb by stephen jay gould... its just an article.. prob on google or somethin
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Earth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: erectronik]
#747021 - 07/15/02 02:18 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think the idea of evolution is BS at all. I beleive in Timothy Leary's eithfold model of consciousness. It just seems to make sense when I read it.
Edited by Earth_Droid (07/15/02 02:20 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#747070 - 07/15/02 03:17 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Enter, this will help you:
Evolution is a fraud.
Enjoy!
The rebuttal against the so-called "29 proofs for evolution" is GREAT!
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#747093 - 07/15/02 03:41 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Enter, I've always liked you cause you're probably the only person here who can reply politely and thoughtfully when someone gives you shit (and I was impressed with the way you ignored me completely when I bit your head off after you suggested removing the Ethnobot forum  ) but this thread is a shocker...from the top (even tho most of it's already been covered):
1. If humans are an evolved species that originated as monkeys, why are there still tons of monkeys?
Monkeys are just as evolved in their way as we are in ours...we share a common ancestor with them.
2. Why are there no monkeys even closely resembling humans? In other words, one would think that there would be some species in mid-evolution or at the cycle of almost human, having attributes that are almost identical to the human model.
We don't see the missing link walking around cause we replaced him!
Yet there are none, despite dna comparisons and things here and there that are too vague too accept. I'm talking about blatant, obvious attributes.
97% (or thereabouts) genetic similarity (to modern chimps) is too vague to accept!? How could that possibly be explained if we're totally unrelated?
3. How do you explain the statistical possibility of an ecosystem with thousands of different species coexisting as long as we have, without Someone getting all of this started at some point? In other words, don't you agree that all of this is quite contrived and setup?
Whether or not someone set it all up is another argument. You actually come pretty close to describing evolution in that paragraph...species co-exist so long as there is an opportunity to do so, a niche for them to fill. We shouldn't be at all surprised by the flawlessness of the ecosystem...we weren't around to see the mistakes!
Evolution is an inescapable fact of everyday life. When we develop stronger antibiotics, it's because we're dealing with stronger strains of bacteria that weren't around before. If you'd titled this thread "Natural Selection Alone is Not Enough to Account for Biological Evolution" then you would have had a much stronger argument than this Sunday school stuff.
If God used evolution, then so be it. I must accept truth
Excellent attitude...
I will never accept evolution though. Never
oh dear...
I've never understood why Christians cry so foul over evolution. Genesis does state that the animals came first, doesn't it?
deepr: I don't get the Panda's thumb thing...wasn't that something to do with a "half-arsed" evolutionary trait, like the "thumb" isn't really a thumb at all, just a sort of compromise between one function and another?
Edited by Pynchon (07/15/02 03:52 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#747147 - 07/15/02 04:32 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Earth rotation did not occur to writers of Genesis. The sun rolled along the sky, like a scarabaeus beetle rolling its eggs in a ball of dung.
It is unlikely that historical Moshe wrote Genesis, let alone the entire Torah. Of course this is just one currently prevailing belief based on significantly different literary styles.
" Jesus also seems to have accepted the theory of Mosaic authorship of the Torah (Mark 7:10; 10:3; Luke 5:14)....Yet in the Torah there are two creation stories that vary in detail and contradict each other in order (Gen. 1:1-2:4 and Gen. 2:5ff). These stories cannot be harmonized. Poor Moses contradicted himself radically in the first two chapters of the Torah. He also seemed not to know the nationality of the people to whom Joseph's brothers sold Joseph, who took him down to Egypt. In one version it was the Ishmaelites (Gen. 37:25), and in another version it was the Midianites (Gen. 37:28). They are not the same. Moses, as a single author, seems to have been quite confused....If this were not enough, there are three separate and distinct versions of the Ten Commandments in the Torah that cannot be reconciled (Exodus 20, Exodus 34, and Deuteronomy 5."
-From 'Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism' by [who else?] John Shelby Spong
What is one to do? One is forced by the shear number of inconsistencies to see the Scriptures in the light in which it was intended - as midrash - stories told in order to impart spiritual truth. It is weird beyond weird that intelligent people can distill meanings from fables, from folktails, and even from someone else's religious scriptures, but not from one's own scriptures. Faith is not the suspension of common sense. IMHO.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#747172 - 07/15/02 04:50 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why challenge unless you're prepared for answers? You'll have to read, like 'In the Footsteps of Eve,' or 'The Seven Daughters of Eve." Did you know, for example, that ALL European (non Asian, non African) descended people have DNA that can be traced to one of seven women? That these women have been given names, and that for a fee your own DNA can be tested and you can be told who your own specific paleolithic Great Grandmother was?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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manmoutainmurphy
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 6
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: World Spirit]
#747183 - 07/15/02 05:00 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello enter. You heard from a biochemist on the subject. Now it's time for moi (an amature archeologist, who has participated in field excavations) to weigh in.
Y'see, the Genesis Creation story isn't the original. It's a cultural borrowing from the much older Sumerian creation mythos. 5000 years ago, the Sumerians wrote down their story (in cuneform, on clay tablets) of how things came to be. The Genesis account, which is obviously from a later date, follows the order of the Sumerian tale event by event.
If this was the only case of cultural borrowing...but it isn't. The whole Noah's Flood is also a direct crib of the Sumerian flood mythos, which can be found in the Epic of Gilgamesh. That's the world's oldest writen story, and it's likely based on even more ancient oral traditions. Traditions that quite probably trace back to the flooding of the then freshwater Black Sea aprox 10,000 years ago, when rising sea levals caused an inflow of salt water into the Black Sea basin. This caused the Sea to expand massively (at the rate of several miles per year), and so submerged the coastal plains surrounding the Sea. Any human population in the region (and evidence is good for that human population) would have fled. And told the tale of the flooding to their descendents for generations to come.
Now take a guess where the Sumerians originated? Answer...north of the Mesopotanian region (the place to which the Sumerians migrated, and built the first true cities), up in the mountains at the east end of the Black Sea. Excellent chance at least some of the ancestors of the Sumerians were peoples who themselves experienced the Black Sea flooding. And the reason for the Sumerian Flood mythos. A mythos that got passed down to other peoples, from the first advanced urban civilization in the region (and unless somebody finds substantial evidence for an earlier one, the first urban centered civilization in the world).
Hate to break it to you, but the Bible is full of thingies like this. There is accurate history embedded in the stories, but there's also myth and myth creation. For instance, the Walls of Jericho and the all-fall-down bit. It is true that Jericho's walls were collapsed. Only problem is...it happened more then a thousand years BEFORE any hypothetical invasion of the 12 Tribes into the lands of the Canannites.
So what likely happened, is that the Hebrew tribes had a ruin in their back yard, and earlier tales of the destruction of the city of Jericho. They proceeded to update the story, and wrote themselves into the picture as a way of laying claim to the land. It's a common thing across the world, where successor populations and peoples adopt and adapt the tales and mythos of preceeding cultures and peoples (especially when the successors at least in part absorb the the original population).
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: The Idea of Evolution is BS [Re: RebelSteve33]
#747187 - 07/15/02 05:01 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for that nicely conceived outline.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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