Home | Community | Message Board


Myco Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Seeds Store Buy CBD, Cannabis Seeds, Compare CBD   Amazon Aldous Huxley, Paintball, Terrence McKenna

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI
    #2165980 - 12/07/03 08:42 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)


In the "humans evolved with mushrooms" there seems to be a confusion between mental and physical evolution. The original poster makes a claim that man evolved with psychadelics and it is refuted with the arguement that shrooms won't change your genetics anymore than weighlifting will make your offspring stronger...

While that is true, human's physical evolution has been static for about 40,000-50,000 years. Within that time there was a "mental big bang" that took place. Early humanoids formed tribes, began creating culture, educating their offspring, farming, and eventually societies formed. (source PBS documentary Evolution, the mind's big bang)

So when you argue claims about mushrooms and evolutions, you are approaching it at the wrong angle.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2165986 - 12/07/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

so, how come nowadays all the people making the scientific breakthroughs arent using mushrooms?

how many reeeely intelligent people who have contributed to the intellectual strasosphere have been mushroom users?

cite 5 legitimate examples


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Positronius]
    #2166010 - 12/07/03 09:02 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

so, how come nowadays all the people making the scientific breakthroughs arent using mushrooms?




They're illegal, they are hard to come by.

Quote:

how many reeeely intelligent people who have contributed to the intellectual strasosphere have been mushroom users?




You're thinking about this the wrong way. It doesn't mean you take a drug, gain 50 IQ points, and have access to a library full of information and ideas.

The thesis is, drugs can alter your perception. Depending on the person, this can result in new or improved ideas or increased creativity. Or it could result in you sitting on the couch for a few hours listening to music.

I don't have a source for this, but I have heard that there is not much difference in the way that the brain works for a genius or schizophrenic. A genius is not necessary a person who advances the "stratosphere of intelligence" but a person who is able to see something that others couldn't see. Often times, insights aren't deeply profound or complicated, rather, they are something very simple (I.E the invention of the wheel or crop rotation).

Some drugs could have facilitated mental breakthroughs for early man. I am not able to provide sources for this, nor is this statement provable by any means. I've admitted that, so, if you don't believe it, don't believe it. It is an idea...


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166017 - 12/07/03 09:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I agree that there are definitly positive aspects to altering one's perception....if one is an intelligent and positive person in the first place. I dont think mushrooms give a human any new information, they only get a new perspective on the information they are allready working with.

a dumb-dumb does mushrooms and he goes and fights someone at a party, just as he would have done if he was on coke, or drunk. Ive seen it.

I dont think drugs are in anyway associated with man's mental evolution. Thinking is the cause of mans mental evolution. And drugs dont make you think unless you're allready a thinker. Lots of intelligent people use mushrooms, but mushrooms are NOT their source of intelligence.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166024 - 12/07/03 09:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

post script.

Something else about the mushrooms and devolution just struck me. Swami had that list with five items on it. Seems true enough, but I wonder if this is POST HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC logic. Drug use doesn't necessarily cause these things, it probably just correlates with certain types of individuals. I can think of many people who's lives have been ruined or badly affected by substance abuse (shit!!! everybody I know), but a lot of these people weren't going anywhere with there lives anyways.

I like a lot of the things Positronius and Swami say regarding these issues, but blah, it just makes me feel so ambivalent.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Positronius]
    #2166032 - 12/07/03 09:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

beat me to it by three minutes

there is one thing, though

Quote:

I dont think drugs are in anyway associated with man's mental evolution. Thinking is the cause of mans mental evolution. And drugs dont make you think unless you're allready a thinker. Lots of intelligent people use mushrooms, but mushrooms are NOT their source of intelligence




affirming the consequence?


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166065 - 12/07/03 09:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

right on, special ed :thumbup:
i truely appreciate your wording on this matter.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Viaggio]
    #2166068 - 12/07/03 09:52 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You know, I really hate McDonalds. But its almsot 7 am, and I really could use one of their chocolate sundays and a coffee. Man Alive, just think of it; grab a coffee, some ice cream, throw on Jarmusch's night on earth. Sounds great.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166125 - 12/07/03 10:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Some drugs could have facilitated mental breakthroughs for early man.

Perhaps, but this is inspiration NOT evolution and "could have" is a poor argument. An example or two would be much stronger.

As to McKenna, he made two major points about mushroom usage, both of which I find either faulty or irrelevant.

1. Low dose mushroom usage is a stimulant and this mild agitation leads to increased sexaul activity.

Rebuttal: (Besides never feeling personally hornier on mushrooms like on alcohol or cannabis) Man has never had a known problem being sexually active. 6.5 billion people exists today of whom probably over 99% (insert your own figure) are not mushroom users.

2. Low dose mushroom usage increases visual acuity which increase hunting prowess.

Rebuttal: While visual acuity is indeed slighty increased, this ability only lasts for a short time and is not that pronounced. Hunting parties were a rather organized affair and getting the mushroom dosage and timing right would be clearly counter-productive. I would hate to be facing a lion as I (or a hunting partner) am accidentally peaking, "Wow Gnarg, look at the cool electric mane on that cat. Can you feel its feral energy? I am about to merge with it's essence."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Swami]
    #2166147 - 12/07/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps, but this is inspiration NOT evolution




It seems then, that we are arguing over what evolution means.

Quote:

and "could have" is a poor argument. An example or two would be much stronger.




It's not really an arguement. It's more of an ad hoc explanation. I will openly admit I have no evidence to support any of my claims. I am just maintaining a hypothesis that mushrooms could have influenced early man's mind, and it could have been for the better. You can call this evolution or cultural developement, but I don't want to confuse the issue with semantics.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Swami]
    #2168638 - 12/08/03 11:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Swami,

I will have to disagree with your second rebuttal.

Have you ever, personally, hunted at all and/or on enthogeans?

Cause if you have you would understand that hunting is more than just running down some quarry with a rifle. Stalking, patience, tracking, strategies that can benefit from a boost of power. I have had nothing but positive results when hunting on mushrooms or acid. Both are very helpful allies in hunting game. The last deer I took, I was trippin on a half a hit of paper. Not an extreme dose by anymeans. However, I was able to move through the woods with an unusual stealth.

Two springs ago, I was turkey hunting on Mushrooms. Brought down a young tom after a two hour belly crawl up a creekbank and called in two. I took the one that was farthes away. Not only does sight increase, hearing and overall attention increases. Shooting, stalking and overall patience increase dramitacally when hunting with power. So, I will have to disagree with your statement that enthogeans do not aid in hunting. Look at the majority of "primitave" cultures in South America and tell me enthogeans aren't used for allies in hunting game>

BTW the analogy you use where the hunter is trippin on the felines aura is a total fabrication imagined by someone who hasn't hunted for sustenance. When someone is hunting for food they aren't playing games. It's a matter of life and death so I think they would take it a little more seriously than you allow them.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: medicinebag]
    #2168730 - 12/08/03 12:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> Well maybe not the actual scientist them self has used them, but what about people who have influenced them through music and sci-fi other creative books.

These are the people who probable have used Psychedelics and are passing on the same ideas and concepts that other wise WOULD not have been thought of because of psychedelics.

I guess it could be seen like a virus passing from one computer to the other, you only need to read it to catch it. This could be like sub-consciousness programming through archetypes imagery ect.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: medicinebag]
    #2168754 - 12/08/03 12:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The last deer I took, I was trippin on a half a hit of paper. Not an extreme dose by anymeans. However, I was able to move through the woods with an unusual stealth.




Excellent post, thanks for sharing that.

I think that when people hear someone say "psychedelics enhance an activity", they are assuming a heavy dose with strong hallucinations. I've had the most success with low doses. I haven't hunted, but I've played games of skill and reflex (paintball, CS, BF1942, Continuum) and my play is greatly enhanced on low doses of LSD and mushrooms. I recommend becoming very experienced with the game before experimenting with psychedelics, and I'm sure that holds true with hunting as well.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Positronius]
    #2168762 - 12/08/03 12:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

so, how come nowadays all the people making the scientific breakthroughs arent using mushrooms?





Carl Sagan
John Lilly
Steven Pinkerton
Aldous Huxley (might not be accurate to call him a scientist,but he did have a wide range of knowledge on the subject)
Bill Gates (not a hard scientist,but invented some "computer science")
Tim Leary (technically did some scientific work)
Albert Hoffman (of course)
Alexander Shulgin
Those are just confirmed. A lot of physicists are rumored to be psychedelic users. And inumerious chemists,pharmacologists,biologists,and medical doctors.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: monoamine]
    #2168819 - 12/08/03 01:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A lot of physicists are rumored to be psychedelic users

And a lot of scientists period. But being known for using mind-expanding drugs can kill a career. So for every one that admits it, its safe to assume there are many, many more that use it in their work and don't admit it.

I'll use John Lilly as an example since I have read several of his books and know him best. He didn't admit to using LSD or mushrooms in his research until years after his contributions and inventions gained widespread acceptance. It wasn't until he was in his 70's and the research portion of his career was long over that he came out on using mind-expanding drugs in his work.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: monoamine]
    #2168821 - 12/08/03 01:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Im curious as to where you got that info on Bill Gates. Do you have a link or anything?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: monoamine]
    #2168823 - 12/08/03 01:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

All of those men also drank water, so what?

Was Hoffman tripping on or before he discovered LSD?

No!

What did he discover / invent as a direct result of his trips?

Dunno.

Could go down the whole list. Once again, without showing cause and effect, your stance is unsupported.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2169181 - 12/08/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe it's a bogus rumor, but I heard a couple of times that the DNA Double Helix structure was invisionned on an acid trip, or some other kind of drug..

Anyone else hear of it?

  :oogle:


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2169197 - 12/08/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Read Francis Crick's book on the discovery of the double-helix. He mentioned nothing like that.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: nooo.....it's MENTAL EVOLUTION SWAMI [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2169233 - 12/08/03 05:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You're probably thinking of nobel laureate Kary Mullis who discovered the polymerase chain reaction. It is used to clone DNA. I've read an interview with him where he claimed that the idea for PCR came to him on an acid trip.

Here's an account of his first acid trip:

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/dancing_naked.html


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Seeds Store Buy CBD, Cannabis Seeds, Compare CBD   Amazon Aldous Huxley, Paintball, Terrence McKenna

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* swami, may i come take your challenge?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
truekimbo2 5,235 99 10/23/14 04:35 AM
by OrgoneConclusion
* Fungus enduced evolution MAGnum 925 11 08/12/04 06:19 PM
by Fucknuckle
* Conceptual Evolution And Physical Evolution fireworks_godS 3,165 15 04/19/05 08:33 PM
by entiformatie
* Evolution Of Humans
( 1 2 all )
superfine 1,390 23 04/21/03 07:11 PM
by pattern
* Evolution
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ShroomismM
4,395 62 05/07/04 10:17 PM
by Strumpling
* Swami/Shroomism relations
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Learyfan 4,641 68 03/20/02 09:32 PM
by Swami
* Mental Masturbation
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Swami 4,670 80 06/20/03 12:10 PM
by Sclorch
* Evolution
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 3,114 64 01/30/03 08:45 AM
by Teragon

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,309 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 21 queries.