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Offlinesuperfine
Driter

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 170
Loc: My Home Roams
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Evolution Of Humans
    #1466077 - 04/17/03 02:52 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Assuming that we don't kill ourselves off very quickly by the looming many number of problems we have caused on this earth. How will humans evolve in the age of computers.  You may say we will adapt to be at computers.  That cannot happen because evolution is based on the survival of the fittest.  When an animal is born with a defect that actually helps it survive it will then be more likely to reproduce causing more babies with this helpfull "defect".  But if a human is born with a "defect" that better helps them sit at computers they are actually not more likely to live and reproduce than someone without the "defect" because they can still order food from the online supermarket and both will not be attacked by predators.  Will this cause humans to evolve poorly or just stop evolution all together? :confused: 


--------------------
Go through the orange yesterday

I watched intently for a while to both sides, infront of me and behind me.
I was impressed to learn there was another way to look... UP!
More impressive still was the fact that there were beautiful stars in this direction
Most amazing fact of all was the prospect of another direction when I was done with up. DOWN! Which, based on the feel through my toes would be a fine sandy beach!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: superfine]
    #1466085 - 04/17/03 02:58 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You know how our cells have mitochondria? Well, that happened when our cell absorbed a photosynthetic bacterium. Endosymbiosis. Same thing with us and machines. In the future, machines won't be made out of metal and silicon, they'll be made of real living flesh. They'll self replicate using DNA computers at an unstoppable rate. That's the day when there will be no difference between man, and machine. We'll have become the creators and the createes.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinesuperfine
Driter

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 170
Loc: My Home Roams
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: bert]
    #1466114 - 04/17/03 03:16 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

guess thats the only way humans/machines will survive any longer. This whole killing all our resourses isn't working too well for us.


--------------------
Go through the orange yesterday

I watched intently for a while to both sides, infront of me and behind me.
I was impressed to learn there was another way to look... UP!
More impressive still was the fact that there were beautiful stars in this direction
Most amazing fact of all was the prospect of another direction when I was done with up. DOWN! Which, based on the feel through my toes would be a fine sandy beach!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: superfine]
    #1466125 - 04/17/03 03:25 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think one day we as a species will achieve nirvana through computer programming and the mind-machine connection.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinesuperfine
Driter

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 170
Loc: My Home Roams
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: bert]
    #1466641 - 04/17/03 10:40 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

haha, you could meditate millions times faster. And something else i just realised. Imagine the drugs you could do. You could just use a program


--------------------
Go through the orange yesterday

I watched intently for a while to both sides, infront of me and behind me.
I was impressed to learn there was another way to look... UP!
More impressive still was the fact that there were beautiful stars in this direction
Most amazing fact of all was the prospect of another direction when I was done with up. DOWN! Which, based on the feel through my toes would be a fine sandy beach!


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: superfine]
    #1466809 - 04/17/03 11:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Its time for the evolution of the MIND.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: Strumpling]
    #1466925 - 04/17/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think those defects should be more looked at as traits. However, you are right that now since we can all live and have children without having to worry about getting killed by a lion because we are too fat to get away, a lot of fuckin traits are being passed on. Traits that in the past would be selected against are being selected for.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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Offlinethe universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Male

Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1466964 - 04/17/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think the human body's evolution is entirely up to us right now, through cloning and our ability to alter DNA somewhat. Right now the time of mental evolution is upon us. Through communication and technology our knowledge of our environment is increasing globally at an exponential rate. It's beautiful really.


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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: the universe]
    #1467165 - 04/17/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think that virtual reality will allow greater artistic expression of the mind. Computers are medium for expressing and recording our thoughts. In that way they are a successor to books.

With artificial intelligence it will assist us in virtual environments, as computers will be able to understand their world better than we ever can. We will be able to simulate wars and interact with each other in ways that would cause disaster in real life. I think we will be able to reduce violence and war in this manner, as man is violent by nature we can use computers to express our emotions instead of repressing them.

Man/machine melding, I dont really buy it, I see computers as simply enhancing our memory. I dont care for immortality either, it sounds boring.

Rant: I know its taboo to talk about Mushrooms and evolution in the same sentence here, but I dont really care. I believe that mushrooms make mankind smarter, they arent a magic pill you take to become a genius, but without mushrooms we wouldnt be as smart as we are now. That said I think that artistic expression on mushrooms is an important thing, it will be valuable to "record the thoughts" we have while on mushrooms, as I for one have a hard time remembering them. So you could eat a bunch of mushrooms and sit inside a virtual reality, assisted by AI agents, and express yourself psychedelically. I believe tweaked out shamans on psychedelic drugs have been pushing humankind forward to develop technology enabling us to acheive this very goal. What will this art and expression look like? I dont know but I'm betting it will look like it is alive.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: pattern]
    #1467194 - 04/17/03 02:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think you guys are thinking way too short term here...I'm talking about a time scale of tens of thousands of years not a few hundred. I really believe that humans will take control of our evolution. Immortality wouldn't be boring because it wouldn't 'feel' like an infinte amount of time. We'd have our memories erased periodically and reinserted into a new 'life'. I'm thinking of digital reincarnation. What do you guys think?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: bert]
    #1467217 - 04/17/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

bert I cant even predict what my next mushroom trip will be like.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: pattern]
    #1468885 - 04/18/03 12:47 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Man melding with computers would be the ultimate evolution if you think about it. A virual reality could become a new reality with any set of rules the creator wants, then it could multiply it's own program (like their mind) into virtual bodies, then any reality could be seen as a real one by the new people (after random memories were deleted (especially the most recent) to make everyone more unique and able to fill in the blanks with new experiences.

Imagine a program that you can create and destroy with just a thought. Sure it's a virtual world, but does that no longer make it just as real? I mean if you tripped a good dose of shrooms before, you come to the conclusion that there are many many if not infinate dimensions of reality, then you'd understand why this would just fall into the catergory of another dimension.

Anyone understand this?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (04/18/03 12:48 AM)


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: Strumpling]
    #1468931 - 04/18/03 01:10 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Its time for the evolution of the MIND




Yeah, lately all of this evolution with computers. WTF?? computers are a product of the MOST POWERFUL ONE OF ALL. That being the mind!!!!!!!!!


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1468948 - 04/18/03 01:16 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, we should probably define evolution. Evolution is the adaptation of a population of organisms to environmental pressures. Evolution does not have a direction, it simply is. So, no, we can't 'evolve' our minds in the sense that you are talking about.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: Murex]
    #1470021 - 04/18/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Man melding with computers would be the ultimate evolution if you think about it. A virual reality could become a new reality with any set of rules the creator wants, then it could multiply it's own program (like their mind) into virtual bodies, then any reality could be seen as a real one by the new people (after random memories were deleted (especially the most recent) to make everyone more unique and able to fill in the blanks with new experiences.





I think you watched the Matrix too much!  Technology to replicate a human brain inside of a computer is not in the foreseeable future, maybe I'm wrong, at the very least we'd need quantum computers for this. 

Quote:

Imagine a program that you can create and destroy with just a thought. Sure it's a virtual world, but does that no longer make it just as real? I mean if you tripped a good dose of shrooms before, you come to the conclusion that there are many many if not infinate dimensions of reality, then you'd understand why this would just fall into the catergory of another dimension.





I believe that anything I experience is real, ie part of reality, so a virtual reality would be "real".  However it would be alot more unstable than our universe.  As far as I know, we can't reboot the universe or suddenly change the laws of physics.  Any virtual reality would just be a subset of our reality, it could never be "more than" and it could never "go beyond" it, because it is made of natural substances.

I just think it would be cool to trip out in VR.  :grin: 


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1470026 - 04/18/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah, lately all of this evolution with computers. WTF?? computers are a product of the MOST POWERFUL ONE OF ALL. That being the mind!!!!!!!!!




We are evolving our mind by evolving a tool created by the mind for the mind.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Offlinedjd586
Underpants Gnome

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 1,655
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: superfine]
    #1470073 - 04/18/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I could probably give you all a reasonable answer to where the evolution of the human raceis headed. Considering I'm studying for my Masters in Macroevolution I know a lot on the subject. BUT, I won't even bother, because everytime I throw out facts and theories about evolution, there's always some moron who thinks my answers are BS and claims I know nothing of what I speak.

Anyhow, you guys are throwing out some interesting concepts... I like the one where computers actually become endo symbotes with us.


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: djd586]
    #1470348 - 04/18/03 02:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm actually taking some basic biology in school right now. I'd be very interested in what a macroevolution major has to say on all this. We need to think outside the box here, but still think logically.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlineninjahedge
hedge made ofninjas

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 58
Loc: here nor there
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: superfine]
    #1470388 - 04/18/03 02:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

bitchin post.

I've had a few biology professors who have considered evolution in the classic sense to have stopped for the human species. what this means is that the process of natural selection is no longer relevant to man, as medical and techonolgical advancements have made genetic defects or disadvantages able to be retained in the gene pool. This makes a lot of sense to me - and you could even say that more and more unhealthy genes are being retained and passed on as we progress as a race.

This may make it seem like we are 'de-evolving' since instead of strengthening the gene pool with survivors, the weak also live on to procreate and make bad genetic contributions. I do think that with current advancement of genetics eventually we will reach a state in which most of our current human diseases and disorders can be eliminated through gene therapy, and germ-line manipulation. When this is the case, it seems to me that population will spiral out of control - but also, nature seems to have a way of creating new disease and mutations from genetic recombination/mutation that keep the species somewhat in check. I don't forsee total genetic manipulation to eliminate disease for at least hundreds of years.

As for the computer issue - i think that it will be many many centuries before a computer could be designed to faithfully represent the human brain - we hardly know any of the nuance and subtlety of our own brains - and until we do, we can't design an artificial entity to replicate it, not to mention the extreme advancement of computing technology it would no doubt require. Maybe some day we will be able to synthesize organic beings that we cannot distinguish as being man or machine, but that day is a long, long way off in my opinion.


--------------------
ow, i poked my brain,
now it's leaking all over...
i guess it's ok


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Evolution Of Humans [Re: pattern]
    #1471728 - 04/18/03 11:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that anything I experience is real, ie part of reality, so a virtual reality would be "real". However it would be alot more unstable than our universe. As far as I know, we can't reboot the universe or suddenly change the laws of physics. Any virtual reality would just be a subset of our reality, it could never be "more than" and it could never "go beyond" it, because it is made of natural substances.

How would it be more unstable? Another reality CAN have a different balance of physics, I mean comon man, think about it.

I don't understand what you mean by a VR world never being more than this reality. Please explain.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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