JESUS said:

Liek OMG, I fooled you. Wut teh lameorz. Live yo life son! Fo realz.

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kimikiri said:

What other religion can claim that?

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kimikiri said:

Anyone who lives without sin does not need the blood of Christ to wash their sins clean.

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I think the point I was trying to convey is that we are all sinners and nothing we can ever do will change that.

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ReoSpeedwagon153 said:

Religion has held together society since the beginning of society. There may not have ever even been a collective 'humanity' were it not for religion.

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This assertion is absurd. Religion does not hold society together, and every aspect of nature as we know it to exist confirms this. Case in point: Monkeys and wolves, fish and bacteria form collective societies, and there is no evidence of any religion being necessary for this to occur.

There exists a collective humanity as it is beneficial for the survival and quality of life of human beings to work together as one species. The simple fact that human beings desire sexual intercourse implies that a man will collectively interact with a woman, the act thus producing children, the children relying on the man and the woman for the fufillment of their needs for their continued existance. Bonds are formed; specialization of tasks ensues.

In fact, most religion is, by its very nature, divisive, and serves to seperate humanity. To determine the cause of humanity collectively forming, one simply needs to observe the nature of how they come together. The force that "holds" the society of a city together is near infinitely times greater than the force of religion, which might unite hundreds of individuals in a limited amount of manners. The nature of the beliefs and characteristics that are assumed through religion draw distinctions between humans - those who are saved and those who are not, those who show up at the church and those who do not, etc. etc. etc.

One only has to look to the ugly nature of forced conversion by Christian missionaries of native populations to observe precisely how religion holds society together.

Your statement regarding religion as the force that holds humanity together as a collective is completely unsubstantiated. I ask you, specifically how does religion hold the human race together, in which ways?

ReoSpeedwagon153 said:

"what great advances in humanity would not have been possible were it not for religion?"

Perhaps every one of them. Religion has held together society since the beginning of society. There may not have ever even been a collective 'humanity' were it not for religion.

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*bzzzzt*  Sorry, that answer is completely unsubstantiated.  But we do have some lovely parting gifts...

Humanity has formed groups in order to facilitate survival.  There is no evidence otherwise.  Historically, religion has not entered the picture until humans secured their basic survival needs, and used their leisure time to begin contemplating the Big Questions.  In the distant past, many simple natural processes were included in those Big Questions, and religion and mythology created supernatural explanations.

Now that our knowledge has expanded, many of us still look to religion for comfort.  We want to believe that we matter, that life has meaning, that we are special, that we are more than animals, and that our fabulous little selves will continue after death in some form.

Leaders look to religion for power, frightened people look to religion for protection, and angry people look to it for an excuse for the behaviors they desire to enact. 

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Perhaps humanity could exist without religion, but you will never find a human society without some form of it. Religion is an inseperable part of human culture.

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And how do you know this?
Because it's the only example you enter in contact with?
It's like saying that besides Earth, there's no form of life in this Universe. Just because you don't know.
And because you fail to take to account the multitude of galaxies with all the solar systems which are so able of creating a perfect medium to sustain fife forms.
That's exactly how it goes for your example with religion.
You think a human society wouldn't be able to exist without religion because you've been told so.
As far as I know, humans can't exist without being able to fulfill their basic biological needs: water, air and food. It's what keeps us alive.
Religion is optional and incidental.

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Do you think the industrial revolution would have happened were the lot of humanity atheists? I doubt it. Workers would have better things to think about! Maybe the masses of people would not have allowed themselves to be subjugated and controlled hundreds of thousands of times over if they did not think their treasure was in heaven.

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Wow this has has so many errors in it that I don't even know where to begin.
First of all... you say industrial change, when until not long ago religion was burning people for looking at alternate life styles (such as discovering science, studying astrology, etc).
Do you really think that an employed carpenter is doing his because he thinks about heaven and the "rewards" he gets there, or because he knows that if it wasn't possible to work, he wouldn't be able to provide for his family and they would all starve?
What you're saying here, now only that doesn't make any sense, but it's alarmingly wrong.

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In order to do something very BIG with humanity, you need a lot of people. In order to get a lot of people to do one thing, they all have to agree on at least a few things. Religion is perfect for achieving that.

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Nonsense.
Atheists get along much better one with another than religious people among them.
Just look at what happens with religion and how many wars start because of it.

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So no, religion is not the single adhering force of society, as you have misunderstood me to have stated, but it is quite a strong force, and it has directly led to some amazing achievements.

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Name them!

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I mean, the pyramids...

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I mean yeah... human life has totally improved because pyramids exist.
Far out dude, far out...

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Religion has held together society since the beginning of society. There may not have ever even been a collective 'humanity' were it not for religion.

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religion is not the single adhering force of society

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Perhaps humanity could exist without religion, but you will never find a human society without some form of it. Religion is an inseperable part of human culture.

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So are language, music, dance, art, agriculture, and so on.  What is your point?  Do these common elements of culture make humanity exist?  Can you point to a single one of these elements and say "that one is responsible for all the amazing achievements of mankind"?  I mean, I'd pick language if I HAD to choose just one, but it would still be guesswork. 

ReoSpeedwagon153 said:

"what great advances in humanity would not have been possible were it not for religion?"

Perhaps every one of them. Religion has held together society since the beginning of society. There may not have ever even been a collective 'humanity' were it not for religion.

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