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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797327 -

I find it significant because I am a college student. To know that my peers (while I don't know any of them, they are still my peers) can be struck down with such ease in such a surprising manner, I stop and think about it. It gets me to think that there are things bigger than you and I. Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically? That is, not from disease (although diseases can take young lives and can take lives unexpectedly), not from old age, but from things like IEDs, or guns. I guess a better way to put it is how many are killed at the hands of other humans? And of those, how many can you relate to? I understand that people die every day, and that I can be struck down by illness at any point in time. But to have something drastically different take people who are not very different from me is a rude awakening.

I don't feel for those who died, either. They're dead. I feel for their friends and their families. Earlier I was walking to get food and I was about to crack some sort of joke (because don't get me wrong, I'm not deeply fucking distraught by this) and just as I was about to I walked by some girl who was on her phone sitting in the middle of the floor crying because one of her best friends was shot and killed. Seeing someone like that just makes you stop and think for a second, and no matter how many people die each day, that's not something you see each day. Or at least I don't.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797346 -

Diploid said:
in the vastness of the universe, the destruction of Earth would be no big deal

It WOULDN'T be a big deal, and the 6 billion who vanish from existence wouldn't care one little bit, proving my point.


I think I'd care as I saw the giant meteor approaching.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797351 -

Proximity is extremely important to your emotions...

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6797394 -

yes, the ones closer to the epicenter are going to feel the shock waves more intensely than those who are further out.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6797398 -

Significance, like motion, is relative to one's point of reference.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: jewunit]
    #6797462 -

jewunit said:
Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically?


Please; death is death. The circumstances that bring it are regardless. So it was tragic - so what? Its death. Tragedy sucks but it isn't as though who died tragically deserve special mention, although obviously some people think it does. The specific circumstances of their death are note-worthy apparently, but it has less to do with the fact that it is death but the unusual event itself.

Also, tragedy is relative to comedy. :grin:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6797559 -

Well, "tragic" death is rather fucking interesting. I don't wanna hear about ol' granny who had gastro-intestinal cancer, that shit's boring. Now someone going apeshit and killing 30 some odd people is something I want to hear about. I never said they should be revered, or remembered in a different light. Just that it has a different effect on me. This holds more significance to me, personally, than 9/11 did.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: jewunit]
    #6797584 -

In the Miami / Fort Lauderdale area where I live, four people are murdered every day.

Big deal. :shrug:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797602 -

Yup and people get murdered in my home town too. I don't give a shit. But you're implying people shouldn't feel anything different if they aren't directly involved, and I'm simply disagreeing. Again, death never really greatly affects me, but this more so than any other specific event that I can think of besides my mother.


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797607 -

It's the psychology of the actions. Every day, this world has an immense amount of suffering, from the hundreds of thousands of cows we kill daily to the modern-day death camps in Asia and other areas around the globe. What can you do besides try to reduce suffering in your own self and hope that you can affect the impermanence of everything around you into greater unity? And perhaps even that is just delusion.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
    #6797608 -

Diploid said:
The 33 dead in Virgina is an infinitesimal drop in a giant ocean. Why does it affect us so much?

I mean, the family and friends of those 33, I understand. They had a personal emotional connection. I feel for the families, but the dead??



Well I think you are contending that morality is a matter of numbers. I mean, you seem to be saying that thirty-three people being killed in a mass murder isn't worth considering but it would be if a larger number of people were killed.

Others might not feel the significance of such a situation is determined by the number of people killed and may think the brutal slaying of that many people is significantly wrong for emotional or categorical reasons.

I'm not saying that the media doesn't over-hype the story, I'm just explaining why to some people the event may not seem socially insignificant.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6797653 -

AlteredAgain said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
All the pundits yelling, "How could this happen?" Gee, I dunno. With gunplay in about half the primetime shows and 70% of movies, the world's largest arsenal and dealer in arms - how could this happen? :shocked:


Indeed, human beings aren't born violent. They learn it.


Andrew Kehoe, the perpetrator of the greatest act of mass murder in US history (at least modern US history), put up this sign before he killed 45 people:



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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
    #6797682 -

Seeing as how selling/using pot & shrooms ofttimes begets a stiffer sentence than murder, what does that say about our community of mostly criminals?


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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6797719 -

In the majority of situations, that is not the case. Distribution of mushrooms may get you a stiffer sentence than manslaughter, but second or first-degree murder usually carries significantly harsher sentences. It also depends what state you live in, as some states will just give people dealing in small amounts of marijuana a fine, so it's truly variable.

Now production of LSD, that can get you life in prison, as shown by two relatively recent cases.

As to what it says about our community, not much. The people fear drug addiction as they base their overall negative views on their limited experiences of a few drugs, probably from people who've never done mushrooms in their life, and then classify it under the grouping of "drugs". Any new chemical that is then grouped as a "drug" will be treated as harshly as meth or heroin, even if it's physically harmless and has no addictive potential. People are ignorant, and the government utilizes this ignorance to help do as they wish, but what can you do besides accept the damage already done?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
    #6797749 -

You went off on a tangent. I was talking about OUR criminal behavior. What is says about US not them.

Society says murder is wrong.

Society says drug use is wrong.

Here is my point: ALL criminals rationalize their behavior as you just did.

We are deviant criminals. How did we get that way? Can we get our minds right again?



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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6797914 -

You cannot get your mind "right" when there is no norm with which to compare it. Even the psychiatrists and judges of the world are just human beings trying to find their way in the world, most of them attempting in vain to make an impact that will last past their deaths.

Society says murder and drug use are wrong because society is like a pack of wolves. If one wolf attacks another wolf in the pack for no reason, then the other wolves see it as a threat to their propagation, judge the individual a burden and eliminate him. Likewise, in human society, there is the general perception that drug users are burdens, as they waste their money on drugs instead of wasting it on material goods to benefit the economy. But the people who create the rules only try to give the impression that they're any more right or sane than anyone else- in actuality, we're all in the same sinking ship here.

Perhaps I am just rationalizing my behavior, which I even admit can impair the functioning of the dopamine receptors in my limbic pathway even after the cessation of drugs. Creating pleasure through the release of dopamine means that you are not expending all that dopamine into creating rewarding sensations for getting a promotion, having a family, a nice house and a new car. Both murder and drug use can impair society, and since all the rules are arbitrary, society creates rules that it sees as best for its survival, just as any organism subject to natural selection.

Users of most drugs get that way because of curiousity, then to reinforce the pleasurable sensations created from the release of dopamine. Hallucinogens may not be grouped in with this category, however, since they are not necessarily pleasurable. In my experience, users of hallucinogens are mostly seeking meaning, not pleasure.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
    #6798338 -

well all i have to say is think about how shiva feels about it


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
    #6798457 -

Be callous?? Why do I want to place my attention on negative events that the media deems worthy of my attention in order to extract dollars from my pocket? I see the sensational views that the media gives us as just a fear based program to keep us coming back for more. I prefer to focus on the information that is more practically oriented and a I refuse to invest too much emotion and attention in such minutiae.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6798689 -

no one is asking anyone to be sympathetic, only to respect the feelings of those who may have lost someone and not use this situation to prove a point about your own spiritual beliefs.

it's fine if it doesnt bother you, but to be blatantly flip in the heat of a situation thats effecting some poeple OTHER THAN YOU isnt noble at all. Spiritual narccisism isnt helpful and reflects poorly on your character.


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-::- Moonglue's Mushroom Tea -::-Moonglue's Cannabis Chocolate Peanutbutter Toasties-::-

Quitting Weed FAQ

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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
    #6798765 -

What are you taking about?
Nobody's talking here that those families don't hurt...
This doesn't eliminate the fact that millions of people die each day
It's about how the media puts a sad face on all that, giving an apocalyptic view upon the world.
That's what it's all about, it's called distraction, it's called program for mass demoralization.
Did you ever think what psychological impact all these thing have on people? It's not hard to realize if you look at how they behave and how frustrated and helpless they feel watching these kinds of news.
All that has nothing to do with the pain their families are going through.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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