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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 33 Dead: Big Deal?? 
#6796921 - 04/16/07 08:51 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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In the history of mankind, approximately 106 billion people have been born and died.
The 33 dead in Virgina is an infinitesimal drop in a giant ocean. Why does it affect us so much?
I mean, the family and friends of those 33, I understand. They had a personal emotional connection. I feel for the families, but the dead??
And along with those 33, a quarter million other people died today, and another quarter million will die tomorrow.
And in the perspective of 6 billion eating, shitting overpopulated bodies plaguing this planet, what's 33?
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (04/18/07 02:56 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
 
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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 Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6796950 - 04/16/07 08:56 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I feel a sadness that such things happen in the culture I live in, but then I remember that this culture is dysfunctional at best, and that it has been my lifelong goal to escape from it's control. I am not surprised or upset.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6796953 - 04/16/07 08:57 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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If we did not have news programs hyping this event as "the worst tragedy since _________," and hourly updates on every single detail of the shooting, it would not be perceived as a big deal.
In fact, no one who wasn't local to the event itself or related to perpetrator or victim would be likely to hear about it.
IMO, it is just more worthless drama, more toxic stress, to distract us from the truly meaningful events going on around us and within us. Bread and circus, anyone? 
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Veritas]
#6796959 - 04/16/07 08:58 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Truly
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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 fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797013 - 04/16/07 09:08 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
In the history of mankind, approximately 106 trillion people have been born and died.
The 33 dead in Virgina is an infinitesimal drop in a giant ocean. Why does it affect us so much?
I mean, the family and friends of those 33, I understand. They had a personal emotional connection. I feel for the families, but the dead??
And along with those 33, a quarter million other people died today, and another quarter million will die tomorrow.
And in the perspective of 6 billion eating, shitting overpopulated bodies plaguing this planet, what's 33?
The media enjoys sensationalizing tragedy because news organizations are driven by profit, and, through making it a sensation, people will constantly tune in and follow the news in order to stay updated. I believe there are System of a Down songs about this... 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Don't be callouse. and it isnt your place to understand.
I live in virginia. everyone in virginia either goes to VT or UVA.
It hits us hard because we all have many friends/family there, and are all worried for them. Alot of my friends are freshmen at VT, ive talked to them today.
many of us virginians have spent the day waiting to hear the names of the deceased.
and then you have to prove your "enlightenment" by stateing the obviouse at a time like this. It's just in poor taste. get fucked.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6797045 - 04/16/07 09:16 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I'm curious: How upset are you about the 250 thousand other people who died today??
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797080 - 04/16/07 09:26 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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im not. it isnt about the number of people killed. it is WHO may have have been killed. i care about the kids i grew up with who go to VT.
and more importantly, how they may feel if some of there friends have been killed.
and at this point i still dont know.
if you are so enlightened that it's insignificant to you maybe you should be enlightened enough to not be so concerned with proving a point. isnt that a little self indulgent? show a little empathy, we wont tell your enlightened friends your human.
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6797092 - 04/16/07 09:30 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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word its just society beginning to wrap it up and the same with weather storms people need to die, i cant wait for what else will follow
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"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6797094 - 04/16/07 09:30 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I think he is presenting a valid point. Clearly it is a tragic event for people in your area, but the news purposely turns it into this sensation that blows it out of proportion, and I think Diploid's original post is an attempt to put it back into perspective. Tragic, yes, unfortunate, yes, but nothing compared to all of the misfortune in the same day on the entire planet.
Of course, the news probably wouldn't react to it in such a way if there wasn't a demand for that news. The media caters to its audience, serves its audience in order to maintain the symbiotic relationship. Clearly there is demand for full-blown coverage - people want to know.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: thedudenj]
#6797104 - 04/16/07 09:31 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
thedudenj said:
word its just society beginning to wrap it up and the same with weather storms people need to die, i cant wait for what else will follow
bird flu
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Clearly there is demand for full-blown coverage - people want to know.
Incidentally, I personally have not read any news articles on the event, despite seeing the enlarged links to it on MSN.com. I only know the basic information from the Politics, Activism, and Law forum. It doesn't interest me enough to seek out more information on it. I respect the feelings of those who are upset by this, the loved ones of those who died, and have compassion for the entire situation, but I feel no real need to know more about the event. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6797165 - 04/16/07 09:42 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
moon_glue said:
im not. it isnt about the number of people killed. it is WHO may have have been killed. i care about the kids i grew up with who go to VT.
and more importantly, how they may feel if some of there friends have been killed.
and at this point i still dont know.
if you are so enlightened that it's insignificant to you maybe you should be enlightened enough to not be so concerned with proving a point. isnt that a little self indulgent? show a little empathy, we wont tell your enlightened friends your human.
Diploid did mention that it would be important to friends and family in his origional post. This forum is about proving points and debate. You are indulging in this being personal for you but if you lived somewhere else you wouldn't bat an eye. His point is valid and worth discussion just as tons of other posts on life and death are here. I don't remember you complaining about them.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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At least Bush will give a sympathetic speech with bowed head because it happened on US soil. Too bad about the 650,000+ dead in Iraq catalyzed by 'freeing' the Iraqi peoplea dn the several hundred this last week alone. *yawn* Not our concern - I guess.
All the pundits yelling, "How could this happen?" Gee, I dunno. With gunplay in about half the primetime shows and 70% of movies, the world's largest arsenal and dealer in arms - how could this happen? 
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
All the pundits yelling, "How could this happen?" Gee, I dunno. With gunplay in about half the primetime shows and 70% of movies, the world's largest arsenal and dealer in arms - how could this happen?
Indeed, human beings aren't born violent. They learn it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Indeed, human beings aren't born violent. They learn it.
All species are born agressive / violent. Without that characteristic, they would be out-evolved by more agressive species. The popular media only encourages it.
Nature requires this, for better or for worse.
Humans may some day evolve beyond that basal survival tool, I hope so, but the way things are going and the way our culture and relgions push violence, we may destroy ourselves before we get there.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797266 - 04/16/07 10:04 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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i have to agree with diploid on that one. we used to be predators/hunters. some people forget that.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797273 - 04/16/07 10:06 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
The popular media only encourages it.
this clarifies my point. perhaps my wording was too simple. thank you.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797284 - 04/16/07 10:08 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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It's the largest public shooting in US history, so yes, it's a big deal. It's not the be-all and end-all of big deals, but it's significant, nonetheless. You could go beyong the 6 billion people in the world and point out that in the vastness of the universe, the destruction of Earth would be no big deal, but that doesn't mean it's not significant to those living there.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Silversoul]
#6797304 - 04/16/07 10:10 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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in the vastness of the universe, the destruction of Earth would be no big deal
It WOULDN'T be a big deal, and the 6 billion who vanish from existence wouldn't care one little bit, proving my point.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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jewunit
Brutal!
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797327 - 04/16/07 10:14 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I find it significant because I am a college student. To know that my peers (while I don't know any of them, they are still my peers) can be struck down with such ease in such a surprising manner, I stop and think about it. It gets me to think that there are things bigger than you and I. Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically? That is, not from disease (although diseases can take young lives and can take lives unexpectedly), not from old age, but from things like IEDs, or guns. I guess a better way to put it is how many are killed at the hands of other humans? And of those, how many can you relate to? I understand that people die every day, and that I can be struck down by illness at any point in time. But to have something drastically different take people who are not very different from me is a rude awakening.
I don't feel for those who died, either. They're dead. I feel for their friends and their families. Earlier I was walking to get food and I was about to crack some sort of joke (because don't get me wrong, I'm not deeply fucking distraught by this) and just as I was about to I walked by some girl who was on her phone sitting in the middle of the floor crying because one of her best friends was shot and killed. Seeing someone like that just makes you stop and think for a second, and no matter how many people die each day, that's not something you see each day. Or at least I don't.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797346 - 04/16/07 10:18 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
in the vastness of the universe, the destruction of Earth would be no big deal
It WOULDN'T be a big deal, and the 6 billion who vanish from existence wouldn't care one little bit, proving my point.
I think I'd care as I saw the giant meteor approaching.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797351 - 04/16/07 10:19 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Proximity is extremely important to your emotions...
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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yes, the ones closer to the epicenter are going to feel the shock waves more intensely than those who are further out.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Significance, like motion, is relative to one's point of reference.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: jewunit]
#6797462 - 04/16/07 10:45 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said:
Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically?
Please; death is death. The circumstances that bring it are regardless. So it was tragic - so what? Its death. Tragedy sucks but it isn't as though who died tragically deserve special mention, although obviously some people think it does. The specific circumstances of their death are note-worthy apparently, but it has less to do with the fact that it is death but the unusual event itself.
Also, tragedy is relative to comedy. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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jewunit
Brutal!
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Well, "tragic" death is rather fucking interesting. I don't wanna hear about ol' granny who had gastro-intestinal cancer, that shit's boring. Now someone going apeshit and killing 30 some odd people is something I want to hear about. I never said they should be revered, or remembered in a different light. Just that it has a different effect on me. This holds more significance to me, personally, than 9/11 did.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: jewunit]
#6797584 - 04/16/07 11:10 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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In the Miami / Fort Lauderdale area where I live, four people are murdered every day.
Big deal.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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jewunit
Brutal!
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797602 - 04/16/07 11:13 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Yup and people get murdered in my home town too. I don't give a shit. But you're implying people shouldn't feel anything different if they aren't directly involved, and I'm simply disagreeing. Again, death never really greatly affects me, but this more so than any other specific event that I can think of besides my mother.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797607 - 04/16/07 11:13 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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It's the psychology of the actions. Every day, this world has an immense amount of suffering, from the hundreds of thousands of cows we kill daily to the modern-day death camps in Asia and other areas around the globe. What can you do besides try to reduce suffering in your own self and hope that you can affect the impermanence of everything around you into greater unity? And perhaps even that is just delusion.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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FrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist
Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6797608 - 04/16/07 11:13 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
The 33 dead in Virgina is an infinitesimal drop in a giant ocean. Why does it affect us so much?
I mean, the family and friends of those 33, I understand. They had a personal emotional connection. I feel for the families, but the dead??
Well I think you are contending that morality is a matter of numbers. I mean, you seem to be saying that thirty-three people being killed in a mass murder isn't worth considering but it would be if a larger number of people were killed.
Others might not feel the significance of such a situation is determined by the number of people killed and may think the brutal slaying of that many people is significantly wrong for emotional or categorical reasons.
I'm not saying that the media doesn't over-hype the story, I'm just explaining why to some people the event may not seem socially insignificant.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
All the pundits yelling, "How could this happen?" Gee, I dunno. With gunplay in about half the primetime shows and 70% of movies, the world's largest arsenal and dealer in arms - how could this happen?
Indeed, human beings aren't born violent. They learn it.
Andrew Kehoe, the perpetrator of the greatest act of mass murder in US history (at least modern US history), put up this sign before he killed 45 people:
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
#6797682 - 04/16/07 11:30 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Seeing as how selling/using pot & shrooms ofttimes begets a stiffer sentence than murder, what does that say about our community of mostly criminals?
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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In the majority of situations, that is not the case. Distribution of mushrooms may get you a stiffer sentence than manslaughter, but second or first-degree murder usually carries significantly harsher sentences. It also depends what state you live in, as some states will just give people dealing in small amounts of marijuana a fine, so it's truly variable.
Now production of LSD, that can get you life in prison, as shown by two relatively recent cases.
As to what it says about our community, not much. The people fear drug addiction as they base their overall negative views on their limited experiences of a few drugs, probably from people who've never done mushrooms in their life, and then classify it under the grouping of "drugs". Any new chemical that is then grouped as a "drug" will be treated as harshly as meth or heroin, even if it's physically harmless and has no addictive potential. People are ignorant, and the government utilizes this ignorance to help do as they wish, but what can you do besides accept the damage already done?
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
#6797749 - 04/16/07 11:46 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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You went off on a tangent. I was talking about OUR criminal behavior. What is says about US not them.
Society says murder is wrong.
Society says drug use is wrong.
Here is my point: ALL criminals rationalize their behavior as you just did.
We are deviant criminals. How did we get that way? Can we get our minds right again?
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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You cannot get your mind "right" when there is no norm with which to compare it. Even the psychiatrists and judges of the world are just human beings trying to find their way in the world, most of them attempting in vain to make an impact that will last past their deaths.
Society says murder and drug use are wrong because society is like a pack of wolves. If one wolf attacks another wolf in the pack for no reason, then the other wolves see it as a threat to their propagation, judge the individual a burden and eliminate him. Likewise, in human society, there is the general perception that drug users are burdens, as they waste their money on drugs instead of wasting it on material goods to benefit the economy. But the people who create the rules only try to give the impression that they're any more right or sane than anyone else- in actuality, we're all in the same sinking ship here.
Perhaps I am just rationalizing my behavior, which I even admit can impair the functioning of the dopamine receptors in my limbic pathway even after the cessation of drugs. Creating pleasure through the release of dopamine means that you are not expending all that dopamine into creating rewarding sensations for getting a promotion, having a family, a nice house and a new car. Both murder and drug use can impair society, and since all the rules are arbitrary, society creates rules that it sees as best for its survival, just as any organism subject to natural selection.
Users of most drugs get that way because of curiousity, then to reinforce the pleasurable sensations created from the release of dopamine. Hallucinogens may not be grouped in with this category, however, since they are not necessarily pleasurable. In my experience, users of hallucinogens are mostly seeking meaning, not pleasure.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Ravus]
#6798338 - 04/17/07 02:48 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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well all i have to say is think about how shiva feels about it
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"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798457 - 04/17/07 04:59 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Be callous?? Why do I want to place my attention on negative events that the media deems worthy of my attention in order to extract dollars from my pocket? I see the sensational views that the media gives us as just a fear based program to keep us coming back for more. I prefer to focus on the information that is more practically oriented and a I refuse to invest too much emotion and attention in such minutiae.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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no one is asking anyone to be sympathetic, only to respect the feelings of those who may have lost someone and not use this situation to prove a point about your own spiritual beliefs.
it's fine if it doesnt bother you, but to be blatantly flip in the heat of a situation thats effecting some poeple OTHER THAN YOU isnt noble at all. Spiritual narccisism isnt helpful and reflects poorly on your character.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798765 - 04/17/07 08:26 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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What are you taking about?
Nobody's talking here that those families don't hurt...
This doesn't eliminate the fact that millions of people die each day
It's about how the media puts a sad face on all that, giving an apocalyptic view upon the world.
That's what it's all about, it's called distraction, it's called program for mass demoralization.
Did you ever think what psychological impact all these thing have on people? It's not hard to realize if you look at how they behave and how frustrated and helpless they feel watching these kinds of news.
All that has nothing to do with the pain their families are going through.
--------------------
   
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798767 - 04/17/07 08:27 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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What's not very spiritual is giving another person the power to affect your emotions.
If this thread upsets you, that is a condition purely of your own creation.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798781 - 04/17/07 08:33 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Were you respecting the feelings of all the loved ones of the 250,000 other people who died when you said you were not upset about their deaths?
If you are not required to be upset about the deaths of strangers, and you can casually state that their deaths did not affect you, why should anyone else be held to a different standard?
Spiritual narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. You appear very upset about this incident as it is personal to you. It is impersonal to everyone who did not have friends & family involved.
To tell people to "get fucked" when they express the same impersonal response as you did when you were asked about all the others who died the same day is hypocritical.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6798793 - 04/17/07 08:37 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
mushroom trip - quit wathcing TV
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798813 - 04/17/07 08:45 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushroom trip - quit watching TV
I don't think your affirmation has anything to do with this thread.
Besides that fact that is lack any seen (if I'll quit or if I already did) this won't change the fact that others are still watching TV.
This thread was not about me. It was about the impact that kind of news have on people... the way they are presented
Can you make the difference?
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Veritas]
#6798823 - 04/17/07 08:50 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Were you respecting the feelings of all the loved ones of the 250,000 other people who died when you said you were not upset about their deaths?
If you are not required to be upset about the deaths of strangers, and you can casually state that their deaths did not affect you, why should anyone else be held to a different standard?
Spiritual narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. You appear very upset about this incident as it is personal to you. It is impersonal to everyone who did not have friends & family involved.
To tell people to "get fucked" when they express the same impersonal response as you did when you were asked about all the others who died the same day is hypocritical.
then i guess you wont understand, and you dont need to.
nothing wrong with anyone's point of view here. earth is small. everyone is. but feelings are feelings and if youre allright with rubbing salt in peoples wounds, and that is your path to enlightenment by all means follow the light. Because if your spiritual beliefs justify it, then it must be allright for the rest of us.
My x called me last night to tell me her friend Hiedi was shot three times and is in ICU
so sorry if im a little emotional and not able to be 100% intellectual at the moment. im just afraid of who else might be dead.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Silversoul]
#6798900 - 04/17/07 09:27 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Diploid said:
in the vastness of the universe, the destruction of Earth would be no big deal
It WOULDN'T be a big deal, and the 6 billion who vanish from existence wouldn't care one little bit, proving my point.
I think I'd care as I saw the giant meteor approaching.
I'd get out my telescope and have a deck party watching it approch. That would be awesome and a great and quick way to die. 
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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implicitli
Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 3,027
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I am so glad that I stopped watching the news.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798918 - 04/17/07 09:33 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
moon_glue said:
im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
mushroom trip - quit wathcing TV
This is a personalism and bares no resemblance to truth IMO. You still do not understand what debate is about.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Icelander]
#6798926 - 04/17/07 09:36 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Can we have the deck party WITHOUT impending death? 
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Icelander]
#6798932 - 04/17/07 09:38 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
moon_glue said:
im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
mushroom trip - quit wathcing TV
This is a personalism and bares no resemblance to truth IMO. You still do not understand what debate is about.
she was complaining about the media, so i told her ot quit watching t.v.
it was just a suggestion, not an attack.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798933 - 04/17/07 09:38 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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but feelings are feelings and if youre allright with rubbing salt in peoples wounds, and that is your path to enlightenment by all means follow the light.
Utter nonsense IMO. No one is rubbing salt into anything. You are indulging again here in self righteousness. If you don't like this thread and it upsets and offends you then you don't have to be involved in it. Which by the way you seem eager enough to do. If you leave it be there is no problem and we can go on dealing with the subject matter which by the way really has nothing to do directly with the unfortunate circumstances at that school
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798936 - 04/17/07 09:39 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
This part.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798941 - 04/17/07 09:41 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
moon_glue said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
moon_glue said:
im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
mushroom trip - quit wathcing TV
This is a personalism and bares no resemblance to truth IMO. You still do not understand what debate is about.
she was complaining about the media, so i told her ot quit watching t.v.
it was just a suggestion, not an attack.
I didn't take it as an attack, I took it as being something irrelevant to the subject of discussion.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Icelander]
#6798948 - 04/17/07 09:43 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
im saying tearing something down to build youself up seems to be your M.O.
This part.
that was directed twards diploid
i like mushrooms trip! ::internet crush:: its the red hair, man... and the space girl attitude
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6798981 - 04/17/07 09:55 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I know you were. What does it matter who you direct you personalisms at?
You don't seem to be getting this at all.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6799019 - 04/17/07 10:06 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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rubbing salt in peoples wounds
Eh? Who did that?
You ARE aware this is a forum for discussing EXACTLY these types of topics, no?
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Icelander]
#6799027 - 04/17/07 10:08 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I know you were. What does it matter who you direct you personalisms at?
You don't seem to be getting this at all.
sorry I'm incredibly average. Don't expect anything brilliant out of me lol. I guess im a just a bad debator. But i still like to participate, maybe il get better at it. 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6799037 - 04/17/07 10:14 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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On a slight tangent, Whoopi Goldberg had a radio guest, possibly the Rutger's womens basketball coach and she was saying how the team was 'forever scarred' by Imus' comment.
Forever scarred by a silly comment from someone they did not know or care about.
Now let's compare that to someone who witnessed or was wounded or was family or a friend of a victim in the Virginia Tech shooting.
Hmmmm....
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6799050 - 04/17/07 10:20 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
sorry I'm incredibly average.
See my thread on 'Extreme Moderation'.
Quote:
Don't expect anything brilliant out of me lol.
Self deprecation is NOT humilty. Everyone here has something to share.
Quote:
I guess im a just a bad debator.
Perhaps just unfamiliar territory which is why Diplod 'stickied' the thread 'The Fallacies of Philosophical Debate' at the top of the page. Understanding this article and WHY some forms of debate are unacceptable will much better help you play the game.
Quote:
But i still like to participate, maybe il get better at it.
If you so desire, then you will get better. It is not that tricky, but may require some emotional taming.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6799101 - 04/17/07 10:33 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
moon_glue said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I know you were. What does it matter who you direct you personalisms at?
You don't seem to be getting this at all.
sorry I'm incredibly average. Don't expect anything brilliant out of me lol. I guess im a just a bad debator. But i still like to participate, maybe il get better at it.
If you're serious then I suggest just reading the rules of the forum first off and then take some time just to read posts and see how the debate works here. It you keep going the way you are very few are going to take you seriously. You can learn lots here and develope your skills. It's worth doing well.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
Registered: 04/16/07 
Posts: 764
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Icelander]
#6804408 - 04/18/07 01:17 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Not to mention 150 just died in an explosion in Iraq today. I seriously doubt that 105 trillion number though. 105 billion maybe- although probably more- but absolutely, 100% not 105 trillion. At most, barely over a trillion.
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Laugh and the world laughs with you.
Weep and you weep alone
Edited by BrainChemicals (04/18/07 01:20 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I seriously doubt that 105 trillion number
How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?
by Carl Haub, Chair of Population Information at the Population Reference Bureau
"How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?" is the most requested Population Today article. It first appeared in February 1995.
(Population Today, November/December 2002) The question of how many people have ever lived on Earth is a perennial one among information calls to PRB. One reason the question keeps coming up is that somewhere, at some time back in the 1970s, a now-forgotten writer made the statement that 75 percent of the people who had ever been born were alive at that moment.
This factoid has had a long shelf life, even though a bit of reflection would show how unlikely it is. For this "estimate" to be true would mean either that births in the 20th century far, far outnumbered those in the past or that there were an extraordinary number of extremely old people living in the 1970s.
If this estimate were true, it would indeed make an impressive case for the rapid pace of population growth in this century. But if we judge the idea that three-fourths of people who ever lived are alive today to be a ridiculous statement, have demographers come up with a better estimate? What might be a reasonable estimate of the actual percentage?
Any such exercise can be only a highly speculative enterprise, to be undertaken with far less seriousness than most demographic inquiries. Nonetheless, it is a somewhat intriguing idea that can be approached on at least a semi-scientific basis.
And semi-scientific it must be, because there are, of course, absolutely no demographic data available for 99 percent of the span of the human stay on Earth. Still, with some speculation concerning prehistoric populations, we can at least approach a guesstimate of this elusive number.
Prehistory and History
Any estimate of the total number of people who have ever been born will depend basically on two factors: (1) the length of time humans are thought to have been on Earth and (2) the average size of the human population at different periods.
Fixing a time when the human race actually came into existence is not a straightforward matter. Various ancestors of Homo sapiens seem to have appeared at least as early as 700,000 B.C. Hominids walked the Earth as early as several million years ago. According to the United Nations' Determinants and Consequences of Population Trends, modern Homo sapiens may have appeared about 50,000 B.C. This long period of 50,000 years holds the key to the question of how many people have ever been born.
At the dawn of agriculture, about 8000 B.C., the population of the world was somewhere on the order of 5 million. (Very rough figures are given in the table; these are averages of an estimate of ranges given by the United Nations and other sources.) The slow growth of population over the 8,000-year period, from an estimated 5 million to 300 million in 1 A.D., results in a very low growth rate — only 0.0512 percent per year. It is difficult to come up with an average world population size over this period. In all likelihood, human populations in different regions grew or declined in response to famines, the vagaries of animal herds, hostilities, and changing weather and climatic conditions.
In any case, life was short. Life expectancy at birth probably averaged only about 10 years for most of human history. Estimates of average life expectancy in Iron Age France have been put at only 10 or 12 years. Under these conditions, the birth rate would have to be about 80 per 1,000 people just for the species to survive. Today, a high birth rate would be about 45 to 50 per 1,000 population, observed in only a few countries of Africa and in several Middle Eastern states that have young populations.
Our birth rate assumption will greatly affect the estimate of the number of people ever born. Infant mortality in the human race's earliest days is thought to have been very high — perhaps 500 infant deaths per 1,000 births, or even higher. Children were probably an economic liability among hunter-gatherer societies, a fact that is likely to have led to the practice of infanticide. Under these circumstances, a disproportionately large number of births would be required to maintain population growth, and that would raise our estimated number of the "ever born."
By 1 A.D., the world may have held about 300 million people. One estimate of the population of the Roman Empire, from Spain to Asia Minor, in 14 A.D., is 45 million. However, other historians set the figure twice as high, suggesting how imprecise population estimates of early historical periods can be.
By 1650, world population rose to about 500 million, not a large increase over the 1 A.D. estimate. The average annual rate of growth was actually lower from 1 A.D. to 1650 than the rate suggested above for the 8000 B.C. to 1 A.D. period. One reason for this abnormally slow growth was the Black Death. This dreaded scourge was not limited to 14th-century Europe. The epidemic may have begun about 542 A.D. in western Asia, spreading from there. It is believed that half the Byzantine Empire was destroyed in the sixth century, a total of 100 million deaths. Such large fluctuations in population size over long periods greatly compound the difficulty of estimating the number of people who have ever lived.
By 1800, however, world population had passed the 1 billion mark, and it has continued to grow since then to the current 6 billion.
Guesstimates
Guesstimating the number of people ever born, then, requires selecting population sizes for different points from antiquity to the present and applying assumed birth rates to each period (see table). We start at the very, very beginning — with just two people (a minimalist approach!).
How Many People Have Ever Lived On Earth?
Code:
Year Population Births Births Between
per 1,000 Benchmarks
-50,000 2 - -
-8000 5,000,000 80 1,137,789,769
1 A.D. 300,000,000 80 46,025,332,354
1200 450,000,000 60 26,591,343,000
1650 500,000,000 60 12,782,002,453
1750 795,000,000 50 3,171,931,513
1850 1,265,000,000 40 4,046,240,009
1900 1,656,000,000 40 2,900,237,856
1950 2,516,000,000 31-38 3,390,198,215
1995 5,760,000,000 31 5,427,305,000
2002 6,215,000,000 23 983,987,500
Add up the Births Between Benchmarks colum and you get:
Number who have ever been born: 106,456,367,669
World population in mid-2002: 6,215,000,000
Percent of those ever born who are living in 2002: 5.8
Source: Population Reference Bureau estimates.
prb.org
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 764
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6804670 - 04/18/07 02:19 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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That is 106 billion, much more in line with what I thought.
106 trillion would be 106,000,000,000,000 - number that is just way, way, way too large considering only 6 BILLION people are on Earth right now, the largest ever, and that is not even one percent of one percent of that number.
It is still a TON of people though. Because so many people have billions of dollars, the largeness of the number billion is often not felt by us as much as it should be.
--------------------
Laugh and the world laughs with you.
Weep and you weep alone
Edited by BrainChemicals (04/18/07 02:23 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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That is 106 billion, much more in line with what I thought.
Dam bifocals.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6804838 - 04/18/07 02:57 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
One reason the question keeps coming up is that somewhere, at some time back in the 1970s, a now-forgotten writer made the statement that 75 percent of the people who had ever been born were alive at that moment.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6804858 - 04/18/07 03:02 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Factor in all the sperm that have died and the number is much, much higher!
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shizznit
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Palatka FL
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Veritas]
#6804889 - 04/18/07 03:11 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
If we did not have news programs hyping this event as "the worst tragedy since _________," and hourly updates on every single detail of the shooting, it would not be perceived as a big deal.
In fact, no one who wasn't local to the event itself or related to perpetrator or victim would be likely to hear about it.
IMO, it is just more worthless drama, more toxic stress, to distract us from the truly meaningful events going on around us and within
us. Bread and circus, anyone?
Only thing on the "news" if thats what they wish to call it, is deaths, who dies, who got murdered, who got robbed. Why even watch any of that completely useless bullshit. I'm not going to read what happen and i don't care. It happened, and couldn't have happened any other way, I feel for the people that lost their friends and family of course. But reading shit like this puts a damper on very beautiful day of life.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Factor in all the sperm that have died and the number is much, much higher!
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Silversoul]
#6806415 - 04/18/07 09:30 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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w t f...
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Silversoul]
#6806425 - 04/18/07 09:32 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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well we can leave it to diploid and his spiritual understanding to decide for us was has value
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: moon_glue]
#6807469 - 04/19/07 04:20 AM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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as a person living outside the U.S. i have to say it's a bit strange seeing all this. imo U.S. has bombed the shit out of so many small countries and done unspeakable crimes against humanity (as have all countries, but currently the U.S. is trying to cover it up with false righteousness & religious justifications). and when in that society some guy goes "pop" in his head and randomly shoots anyone on his path then i just see an ironic similarity with the U.S. foreign politics.
of course is hard on those who lost someone in the shootings but the harder the grief is the more further are they from reality. when guns are available to any yahoo and the society there is pretty messed up then what do you expect?
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: 
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
#6808650 - 04/19/07 12:42 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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 Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: jewunit]
#6808832 - 04/19/07 01:32 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said:
....
Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically?
I don't know. But I doubt any of those 33 died tragically. They all died sadly, but
not tragically; None of them died by a character flaw--except perhaps the killer.
Let's get away from all the adjectives, synonyms and euphemisms. It was clearly murder.
That is much heavier than any tragedy, I think.
They did not die tragically, they were murdered.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Importantly: calling this a distraction or a way of pulling money from your pockets...
that's sad.
Whether or not you are moved by this, I doubt any person that has a clear overview of violence
wants things like this to happen again.
Yes, it might be a distraction on some levels, but do you understand what relation it has
to your society?
So, in saying that it's a distraction you're only making it easier for the possibility of this repeating,
because you're ignoring it. What'll it be next time--a 14 year old kid that blows up his whole middle school?
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 15 days
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I don't feel we should talk about or dwell on these things.
To be a bystander in a community may be one thing. To be passive spectator is quite another. You are divorced from any and all responsibility, yet you are compelled to subject yourself to massive amounts of negative energy, which you then carry with you into your environment. Gossip starts. People suddenly take the inkblot that is a school university and color it paranoid, when if they simply would have chosen to not dwell on such topics would be completely relaxed and calm and without a care.
My friend said that he has never witnessed any trauma in his life aside from television, and that he bets if he had never watched it, he would view reality as a paradise right now.
Media = paranoia
paranoia = more problems
more problems = more media
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
jewunit said:
Of those quarter million people who die, how many die tragically?
Please; death is death. The circumstances that bring it are regardless. So it was tragic - so what? Its death. Tragedy sucks but it isn't as though who died tragically deserve special mention, although obviously some people think it does. The specific circumstances of their death are note-worthy apparently, but it has less to do with the fact that it is death but the unusual event itself.
Also, tragedy is relative to comedy.
There's something about this post that makes me sad. Although you kind of redeemed it with the "tragedy is relative to comedy" comment.
(edit) In fact it didnt redeem it. I find your post extremely cold, like it is missing something about life. Death is not just death; life is sacred and it is all we have. There is all the difference in the world between a dignified, graceful death and a tragic death. A tragic death speaks volumes about our reality and the innert sadness of the human condition.
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
Edited by mr_kite (04/19/07 08:14 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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In the United States we have fear shoved in our faces 24 / 7 on the news every day. Violence as a culture is a stress reaction to this process which is designed to feed huge corporations lots of cash. We don't just report the news once...we have to feed it with more and more of our attention until it assumes a life of it's own within us. The presence of this thread testifies to this.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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The other night I was out driving and the rock stations were both on commercials, so I switched to an oldies station. My girlfriend likes to listen to them, and I appreciate it for what it is, so I was enjoying it. They reported some news on a break, but it was so different than the manner in which the news is presented on the television. It was nothing but facts and headlines - information pertaining to the event, leaving it for oneself to conclude what it means.
The news media on television and the Internet don't just cover the specific information regarding the event - its not just the who's, what's, when's, where's, why's, and how's, but it covers anything that in some way relates to it. They cover people's reactions to the events, they cover what people are doing how people respond to knowing about it, they cover anything and everything.
Now, I realize that this allows one to learn not only about the event, but much about the rest of the world as it pertains to the event, but the process sort of blows the original event out of proportion. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6814751 - 04/21/07 02:19 AM (17 years, 14 hours ago) |
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Once again: meaning is not quantitative, but qualitative.
That is why 33 matters.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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For those not directly affected, what quality does this group of 33 posses that makes them 'matter'?
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6815269 - 04/21/07 09:13 AM (17 years, 7 hours ago) |
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I think 29 matters more.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: 33 Dead: Big Deal?? [Re: Diploid]
#6815475 - 04/21/07 10:25 AM (17 years, 6 hours ago) |
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In any quantitive way. Even media indoctrination. Positives and negatives--doesn't matter.
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