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Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 531
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
book of the dead
    #2592830 - 04/22/04 11:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Hey all.

I was wondering if any of you have read either the Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Egyptian Book of the Dead. What do these texts discuss? Im sure they probably aren't similar, contrary to what their titles suggest.

I have heard these mentioned over the years and thought I might get an idea of your opinions and thoughts on them.


my signature is too long

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great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: book of the dead [Re: jahfeelirie]
    #2593093 - 04/23/04 12:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

what, you trying to get me to do all the work for you?

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Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 531
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: book of the dead [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2593192 - 04/23/04 01:25 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

uhh.... yeah

say what you want or say nothing at all.
simple as that.

Im no stranger to google...reading hymn to Osiris Un-Nefer right now.
I was really asking more for opinions than summations.

my signature is too long

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the darkestlight

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 138
Loc: st.louis
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: book of the dead [Re: jahfeelirie]
    #2593216 - 04/23/04 01:30 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

some other good reads that are pretty similar are....well any alchemy book, and the metu neter (also an egytian book). i don't agree with the whole quest for control of the dead or the immortality thing. it's always been my opinion that control is rather wrong.

where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.

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Explorer of theMind

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 308
Loc: Montreal
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: book of the dead [Re: jahfeelirie]
    #2593227 - 04/23/04 01:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I read the Tibetan book of the dead.

Two things if you want to read the book.

1. Have a good knowledge of Buddhism or you won't understand nothing.
2. Be ready for some very heavy reading. It takes time to read it if you analyze everything well.

That being said....

Extraordinary book! Very deep and a lot of knowledge is channeled through this book. Also if your less into Buddhism and want to have a basic knowledge I suggest you read:

The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche.

He talks a lot about the Tibetan Book of the Dead and adds a lot of teaching and clarifies a lot of things. Also the writing style is much easier to follow. And if you have the chance to go to one of his lectures I strongly suggest yo do. There are few highly spiritual beings that are that much accomplished.

Good reading:)

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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 323
Loc: Infinitus Kosmos
Re: book of the dead [Re: jahfeelirie]
    #2593857 - 04/23/04 06:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

~ The Psychedelic Experience ~

A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead

By Timothy Leary, Ph.D., Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., &

Richard Alpert, Ph.D.

The authors were engaged in a program of experiments with LSD and

other psychedelic drugs at Harvard University, until sensational

national publicity, unfairly concentrating on student interest in the

drugs, led to the suspension of the experiments. Since then, the

authors have continued their work without academic auspices.


is dedicated,



July 26, 1894 - November 22, 1963

with profound admiration and gratitude.

"If you started in the wrong way," I said in answer to the

investigator's questions, "everything that happened would be a proof

of the conspiracy against you. It would all be self-validating. You

couldn't draw a breath without knowing it was part of the plot."

"So you think you know where madness lies?"

My answer was a convinced and heartfelt, "Yes."

"And you couldn't control it?"

"No I couldn't control it. If one began with fear and hate as the

major premise, one would have to go on the conclusion."

"Would you be able," my wife asked, " to fix your attention on what

The Tibetan Book of the Dead calls the Clear Light?"

I was doubtful.

"Would it keep the evil away, if you could hold it? Or would you not

be able to hold it?"

I considered the question for some time. "Perhaps," I answered at

last, "perhaps I could - but only if there were somebody there to tell

me about the Clear Light. One couldn't do it by oneself. That's the

point, I suppose, of the Tibetan ritual - somebody sitting there all

the time and telling you what's what."




A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness.

The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its

characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of

space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of

enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory

deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or

aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become

available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as

LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc. [This is the statement of an

ideal, not an actual situation, in 1964. The psychedelic drugs are in

the United States classified as "experimental" drugs. That is, they

are not available on a prescription basis, but only to "qualified

investigators." The Federal Food and Drug Administration has defined

"qualified investigators" to mean psychiatrists working in a mental

hospital setting, whose research is sponsored by either state or

federal agencies.]

Of course, the drug dose does not produce the transcendent experience.

It merely acts as a chemical key - it opens the mind, frees the

nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures. The nature of

the experience depends almost entirely on set and setting. Set denotes

the preparation of the individual, including his personality structure

and his mood at the time. Setting is physical - the weather, the

room's atmosphere; social - feelings of persons present towards one

another; and cultural - prevailing views as to what is real. It is for

this reason that manuals or guide-books are necessary. Their purpose

is to enable a person to understand the new realities of the expanded

consciousness, to serve as road maps for new interior territories

which modern science has made accessible.

Different explorers draw different maps. Other manuals are to be

written based on different models - scientific, aesthetic,

therapeutic. The Tibetan model, on which this manual is based, is

designed to teach the person to direct and control awareness in such a

way as to reach that level of understanding variously called

liberation, illumination, or enlightenment. If the manual is read

several times before a session is attempted, and if a trusted person

is there to remind and refresh the memory of the voyager during the

experience, the consciousness will be freed from the games which

comprise "personality" and from positive-negative hallucinations which

often accompany states of expanded awareness. The Tibetan Book of the

Dead was called in its own language the Bardo Thodol, which means

"Liberation by Hearing on the After-Death Plane." The book stresses

over and over that the free consciousness has only to hear and

remember the teachings in order to be liberated.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead is ostensibly a book describing the

experiences to be expected at the moment of death, during an

intermediate phase lasting forty-nine (seven times seven) days, and

during rebirth into another bodily frame. This however is merely the

exoteric framework which the Tibetan Buddhists used to cloak their

mystical teachings. The language and symbolism of death rituals of

Bonism, the traditional pre-Buddhist Tibetan religion, were skillfully

blended with Buddhist conceptions. The esoteric meaning, as it has

been interpreted in this manual, is that it is death and rebirth that

is described, not of the body. Lama Govinda indicates this clearly in

his introduction when he writes: "It is a book for the living as well

as the dying." The book's esoteric meaning is often concealed beneath

many layers of symbolism. It was not intended for general reading. It

was designed to be understood only by one who was to be initiated

personally by a guru into the Buddhist mystical doctrines, into the

pre-mortem-death-rebirth experience. These doctrines have been kept a

closely guarded secret for many centuries, for fear that naive or

careless application would do harm. In translating such an esoteric

text, therefore, there are two steps: one, the rendering of the

original text into English; and two, the practical interpretation of

the text for its uses. In publishing this practical interpretation for

use in the psychedelic drug session, we are in a sense breaking with

the tradition of secrecy and thus contravening the teachings of the


However, this step is justified on the grounds that the manual will

not be understood by anyone who has not had a consciousness-expanding

experience and that there are signs that the lamas themselves, after

their recent diaspora, wish to make their teachings available to a

wider public.

Following the Tibetan model then, we distinguish three phases of the

psychedelic experience. The first period (Chikhai Bardo) is that of

complete transcendence - beyond words, beyond space-time, beyond self.

There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only

pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological)

involvements. ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles,

rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic

space-time locations and characteristic patterns of movement. Any

behavior not having these nine features is non-game: this includes

physiological reflexes, spontaneous play, and transcendent awareness.]

The second lengthy period involves self, or external game reality

(Chonyid Bardo) - in sharp exquisite clarity or in the form of

hallucinations (karmic apparitions). The final period (Sidpa Bardo)

involves the return to routine game reality and the self. For most

persons the second (aesthetic or hallucinatory) stage is the longest.

For the initiated the first stage of illumination lasts longer. For

the unprepared, the heavy game players, those who anxiously cling to

their egos, and for those who take the drug in a non-supportive

setting, the struggle to regain reality begins early and usually lasts

to the end of their session.

Words like these are static, whereas the psychedelic experience is

fluid and ever-changing. Typically the subject's consciousness flicks

in and out of these three levels with rapid oscillations. One purpose

of this manual is to enable the person to regain the transcendence of

the First Bardo and to avoid prolonged entrapments in hallucinatory or

ego-dominated game patterns.

The Basic Trusts and Beliefs. You must be ready to accept the

possibility that there is a limitless range of awareness for which we

now have no words; that awareness can expand beyond range of your ego,

your self, your familiar identity, beyond everything you have learned,

beyond your notions of space and time, beyond the differences which

usually separate people from each other and from the world around


You must remember that throughout human history, millions have made

this voyage. A few (whom we call mystics, saints or buddhas) have made

this experience endure and have communicated it to their fellow men.

You must remember, too, that the experience is safe (at the very

worst, you will end up the same person who entered the experience),

and that all of the dangers which you have feared are unnecessary

productions of your mind. Whether you experience heaven or hell,

remember that it is your mind which creates them. Avoid grasping the

one or fleeing the other. Avoid imposing the ego game on the


You must try to maintain faith and trust in the potentiality of your

own brain and the billion-year-old life process. With you ego left

behind you, the brain can't go wrong.

Try to keep the memory of a trusted friend or a respected person whose

name can serve as a guide and protection.

Trust your divinity, trust your brain, trust your companions.

Whenever in doubt, turn off your mind, relax, float downstream.

After reading this guide, the prepared person should be able, at the

very beginning of his experience, to move directly to a state of non-

game ecstasy and deep revelation. But if you are not well prepared, or

if there is game distraction around you, you will find yourself

dropping back. If this happens, then the instructions in Part IV

should help you regain and maintain liberation.

"Liberation in this context does not necessarily imply (especially in

the case of the average person) the Liberation of Nirvana, but chiefly

a liberation of the 'life-flux' from the ego, in such a manner as will

afford the greatest possible consciousness and consequent happy

rebirth. Yet for the very experienced and very highly efficient

person, the [same] esoteric process of Transference [Readers

interested in a more detailed discussion of the process of

"Transference" are referred to Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines,

edited by W. Y. Evans-Wentz, Oxford University Press, 1958.] can be,

according to the lama-gurus, so employed as to prevent any break in

the flow of the stream of consciousness, from the moment of the ego-

loss to the moment of a conscious rebirth (eight hours later). Judging

from the translation made by the late Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup, of an old

Tibetan manuscript containing practical directions for ego-loss

states, the ability to maintain a non-game ecstasy throughout the

entire experience is possessed only by persons trained in mental

concentration, or one-pointedness of mind, to such a high degree of

proficiency as to be able to control all the mental functions and to

shut out the distractions of the outside world." (Evans-Wentz, p. 86,

note 2)

This manual is divided into four parts. The first part is

introductory. The second is a step-by-step description of a

psychedelic experience based directly on the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

The third part contains practical suggestions on how to prepare for

and conduct a psychedelic session. The fourth part contains

instructive passages adapted from the Bardo Thodol, which may be read

to the voyager during this session, to facilitate the movement of


In the remainder of this introductory section, we review three

commentaries on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, published with the

Evans-Wentz edition. These are the introduction by Evans-Wentz

himself, the distinguished translator-editor of four treatises on

Tibetan mysticism; the commentary by Carl Jung, the Swiss

psychoanalyst; and by Lama Govinda, and initiate of one of the

principle Buddhist orders of Tibet.


"Dr. Evans-Wentz, who literally sat at the feet of a Tibetan lama for

years, in order to acquire his wisdom . . . not only displays a deeply

sympathetic interest in those esoteric doctrines so characteristic of

the genius of the East, but likewise possesses the rare faculty of

making them more or less intelligible to the layman." [Quoted from a

book review in Anthropology on the back of the Oxford University Press

edition of The Tibetan Book of the Dead.]

W. Y. Evans-Wentz is a great scholar who devoted his mature years to

the role of bridge and shuttle between Tibet and the west: like an RNA

molecule activating the latter with the coded message of the former.

No greater tribute could be paid to the work of this academic

liberator than to base our psychedelic manual upon his insights and to

quote directly his comments on "the message of this book."

The message is, that the Art of Dying is quite as important as the Art

of Living (or of Coming into Birth), of which it is the complement and

summation; that the future of being is dependent, perhaps entirely,

upon a rightly controlled death, as the second part of this volume,

setting forth the Art of Reincarnating, emphasizes.

The Art of Dying, as indicated by the death-rite associated with

initiation into the Mysteries of Antiquity, and referred to by

Apuleius, the Platonic philosopher, himself an initiate, and by many

other illustrious initiates, and as The Egyptian Book of the Dead

suggests, appears to have been far better known to the ancient peoples

inhabiting the Mediterranean countries than it is now by their

descendants in Europe and the Americas.

To those who had passed through the secret experiencing of pre-mortem

death, right dying is initiation, conferring, as does the initiatory

death-rite, the power to control consciously the process of death and

regeneration. (Evans-Wentz, p. xiii-xiv)

The Oxford scholar, like his great predecessor of the eleventh

century, Marpa ("The Translator"), who rendered Indian Buddhist texts

into Tibetan, thereby preserving them from extinction, saw the vital

importance of these doctrines and made them accessible to many. The

"secret" is no longer hidden: "the art of dying is quite as important

as the art of living."


Psychology is the systematic attempt to describe and explain man's

behavior, both conscious and non-conscious. The scope of study is

broad - covering the infinite variety of human activity and

experience; and it is long - tracing back through the history of the

individual, through the history of his ancestors, back through the

evolutionary vicissitudes and triumphs which have determined the

current status of the species. Most difficult of all, the scope of

psychology is complex, dealing as it does with processes which are


Little wonder that psychologists, in the face of such complexity,

escape into specialization and parochial narrowness.

A psychology is based on the available data and the psychologists'

ability and willingness to utilize them. The behaviorism and

experimentalism of twentieth-century western psychology is so narrow

as to be mostly trivial. Consciousness is eliminated from the field of

inquiry. Social application and social meaning are largely neglected.

A curious ritualism is enacted by a priesthood rapidly growing in

power and numbers.

Eastern psychology, by contrast, offers us a long history of detailed

observation and systematization of the range of human consciousness

along with an enormous literature of practical methods for controlling

and changing consciousness. Western intellectuals tend to dismiss

Oriental psychology. The theories of consciousness are seen as occult

and mystical. The methods of investigating consciousness change, such

as meditation, yoga, monastic retreat, and sensory deprivation, and

are seen as alien to scientific investigation. And most damning of all

in the eyes of the European scholar, is the alleged disregard of

eastern psychologies for the practical, behavioral and social aspects

of life. Such criticism betrays limited concepts and the inability to

deal with the available historical data on a meaningful level. The

psychologies of the east have always found practical application in

the running of the state, in the running of daily life and family. A

wealth of guides and handbooks exists: the Book of Tao, the Analects

of Confucius, the Gita, the I Ching, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, to

mention only the best-known.

Eastern psychology can be judged in terms of the use of available

evidence. The scholars and observers of China, Tibet, and India went

as far as their data allowed them. They lacked the findings of modern

science and so their metaphors seem vague and poetic. Yet this does

not negate their value. Indeed, eastern philosophic theories dating

back four thousand years adapt readily to the most recent discoveries

of nuclear physics, biochemistry, genetics, and astronomy.

A major task of any present day psychology - eastern or western - is

to construct a frame of reference large enough to incorporate the

recent findings of the energy sciences into a revised picture of man.

Judged against the criterion of the use of available fact, the

greatest psychologists of our century are William James and Carl Jung.

[To properly compare Jung with Sigmund Freud we must look at the

available data which each man appropriated for his explorations. For

Freud it was Darwin, classical thermodynamics, the Old Testament,

Renaissance cultural history, and most important, the close overheated

atmosphere of the Jewish family. The broader scope of Jung's reference

materials assures that his theories will find a greater congeniality

with recent developments in the energy sciences and the evolutionary

sciences.] Both of these men avoided the narrow paths of behaviorism

and experimentalism. Both fought to preserve experience and

consciousness as an area of scientific research. Both kept open to the

advance of scientific theory and both refused to shut off eastern

scholarship from consideration.

Jung used for his source of data that most fertile source - the

internal. He recognized the rich meaning of the eastern message; he

reacted to that great Rorshach inkblot, the Tao Te Ching. He wrote

perceptive brilliant forewords to the I Ching, to the Secret of the

Golden Flower, and struggled with the meaning of The Tibetan Book of

the Dead. "For years, ever since it was first published, the Bardo

Thodol has been my constant companion, and to it I owe not only many

stimulating ideas and discoveries, but also many fundamental insights.

. . Its philosophy contains the quintessence of Buddhist psychological

criticism; and, as such, one can truly say that it is of an unexampled


The Bardo Thodol is in the highest degree psychological in its

outlook; but, with us, philosophy and theology

are still in the mediaeval, pre-psychological stage where only the

assertions are listened to, explained, defended, criticized and

disputed, while the authority that makes them has, by general consent,

been deposed as outside the scope of discussion.

Metaphysical assertions, however, are statements of the psyche, and

are therefore psychological. To the Western mind, which compensates

its well-known feelings of resentment by a slavish regard for

"rational" explanations, this obvious truth seems all too obvious, or

else it is seen as an inadmissible negation of metaphysical "truth."

Whenever the Westerner hears the word "psychological," it always

sounds to him like "only psychological."

Jung draws upon Oriental conceptions of consciousness to broaden the

concept of "projection":

Not only the "wrathful" but also the "peaceful" deities are conceived

as sangsaric projections of the human psyche, an idea that seems all

too obvious to the enlightened European, because it reminds him of his

own banal simplifications. But though the European can easily explain

away these deities as projections, he would be quite incapable of

positing them at the same time as real. The Bardo Thodol can do that,

because, in certain of its most essential metaphysical premises, it

has the enlightened as well as the unenlightened European at a

disadvantage. The ever-present, unspoken assumption of the Bardo

Thodol is the anti-nominal character of all metaphysical assertions,

and also the idea of the qualitative difference of the various levels

of consciousness and of the metaphysical realities conditioned by

them. The background of this unusual book is not the niggardly

European "either-or," but a magnificently affirmative "both-and." This

statement may appear objectionable to the Western philosopher, for the

West loves clarity and unambiguity; consequently, one philosopher

clings to the position, "God is," while another clings equally

fervently to the negation, "God is not."

Jung clearly sees the power and breadth of the Tibetan model but

occasionally he fails to grasp its meaning and application. Jung, too,

was limited (as we all are) to the social models of his tribe. He was

a psychoanalyst, the father of a school. Psychotherapy and psychiatric

diagnosis were the two applications which came most naturally to him.

Jung misses the central concept of the Tibetan book. This is not (as

Lama Govinda reminds us) a book of the dead. It is a book of the

dying; which is to say a book of the living; it is a book of life and

how to live. The concept of actual physical death was an exoteric

facade adopted to fit the prejudices of the Bonist tradition in Tibet.

Far from being an embalmers' guide, the manual is a detailed account

of how to lose the ego; how to break out of personality into new

realms of consciousness; and how to avoid the involuntary limiting

processes of the ego; how to make the consciousness-expansion

experience endure in subsequent daily life.

Jung struggles with this point. He comes close but never quite

clinches it. He had nothing in his conceptual framework which could

make practical sense out of the ego-loss experience.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead, or the Bardo Thodol, is a book of

instructions for the dead and dying. Like The Egyptian Book of the

Dead it is meant to be a guide for the dead man during the period of

his Bardo existence. . . .

In this quote Jung settles for the exoteric and misses the esoteric.

In a later quote he seems to come closer:

. . . the instruction given in the Bardo Thodol serves to recall to

the dead man the experience of his initiation and the teachings of his

guru, for the instruction is, at bottom, nothing less than an

initiation of the dead into the Bardo life, just as the initiation of

the living was a preparation for the Beyond. Such was the case, at

least, with all the mystery cults in ancient civilizations from the

time of the Egyptian and Eleusinian mysteries. In the initiation of

the living, however, this "Beyond" is not a world beyond death, but a

reversal of the mind's intentions and outlook, a psychological

"Beyond" or, in Christian terms, a "redemption" from the trammels of

the world and of sin. Redemption is a separation and deliverance from

an earlier condition of darkness and unconsciousness, and leads to a

condition of illumination and releasedness, to victory and

transcendence over everything "given."

Thus far the Bardo Thodol is, as Dr. Evans-Wentz also feels, an

initiation process whose purpose it is to restore to the soul the

divinity it lost at birth.

In still another passage Jung continues the struggle but misses again:

Nor is the psychological use we make of it (the Tibetan Book) anything

but a secondary intention, though one that is possibly sanctioned by

lamaist custom. The real purpose of this singular book is the attempt,

which must seem very strange to the educated European of the twentieth

century, to enlighten the dead on their journey through the regions of

the Bardo. The Catholic Church is the only place in the world of the

white man where any provision is made for the souls of the departed.

In the summary of Lama Govinda's comments which follow we shall see

that the Tibetan commentator, freed from the European concepts of

Jung, moves directly to the esoteric and practical meaning of the

Tibetan book.

In his autobiography (written in 1960) Jung commits himself wholly to

the inner vision and to the wisdom and superior reality of internal

perceptions. In 1938 (when his Tibetan commentary was written) he was

moving in this direction but cautiously and with the ambivalent

reservations of the psychiatrist cum mystic.

The dead man must desperately resist the dictates of reason, as we

understand it, and give up the supremacy of egohood, regarded by

reason as sacrosanct. What this means in practice is complete

capitulation to the objective powers of the psyche, with all that this

entails; a kind of symbological death, corresponding to the Judgement

of the Dead in the Sidpa Bardo. It means the end of all conscious,

rational, morally responsible conduct of life, and a voluntary

surrender to what the Bardo Thodol calls "karmic illusion." Karmic

illusion springs from belief in a visionary world of an extremely

irrational nature, which neither accords with nor derives from our

rational judgments but is the exclusive product of uninhibited

imagination. It is sheer dream or "fantasy," and every well-meaning

person will instantly caution us against it; nor indeed can one see at

first sight what is the difference between fantasies of this kind and

the phantasmagoria of a lunatic. Very often only a slight abaissement

du niveau mental is needed to unleash this world of illusion. The

terror and darkness of this moment has its equivalent in the

experiences described in the opening sections of the Sidpa Bardo. But

the contents of this Bardo also reveal the archetypes, the karmic

images which appear first in their terrifying form. The Chonyid state

is equivalent to a deliberately induced psychosis. . . .

The transition, then, from the Sidpa state to the Chonyid state is a

dangerous reversal of the aims and intentions of the conscious mind.

It is a sacrifice of the ego's stability and a surrender to the

extreme uncertainty of what must seem like a chaotic riot of

phantasmal forms. When Freud coined the phrase that the ego was "the

true seat of anxiety," he was giving voice to a very true and profound

intuition. Fear of self-sacrifice lurks deep in every ego, and this

fear is often only the precariously controlled demand of the

unconscious forces to burst out in full strength. No one who strives

for selfhood (individuation) is spared this dangerous passage, for

that which is feared also belongs to the wholeness of the self - the

sub-human, or supra-human, world of psychic "dominants" from which the

ego originally emancipated itself with enormous effort, and then only

partially, for the sake of a more or less illusory freedom. This

liberation is certainly a very necessary and very heroic undertaking,

but it represents nothing final: it is merely the creation of a

subject, who, in order to find fulfillment, has still to be confronted

by an object. This, at first sight, would appear to be the world,

which is swelled out with projections for that very purpose. Here we

seek and find our difficulties, here we seek and find our enemy, here

we seek and find what is dear and precious to us; and it is comforting

to know that all evil and all good is to be found out there, in the

visible object, where it can be conquered, punished, destroyed or

enjoyed. But nature herself does not allow this paradisal state of

innocence to continue for ever. There are, and always have been, those

who cannot help but see that the world and its experiences are in the

nature of a symbol, and that it really reflects something that lies

hidden in the subject himself, in his own transubjective reality. It

is from this profound intuition, according to lamaist doctrine, that

the Chonyid state derives its true meaning, which is why the Chonyid

Bardo is entitled "The Bardo of the Experiencing of Reality."

The reality experienced in the Chonyid state is, as the last section

of the corresponding Bardo teaches, the reality of thought. The

"thought-forms" appear as realities, fantasy takes on real form, and

the terrifying dream evoked by karma and played out by the unconscious

"dominants" begins.

Jung would not have been surprised by professional and institutional

antagonism to psychedelics. He closes his Tibetan commentary with a

poignant political aside:

The Bardo Thodol began by being a "closed" book, and so it has

remained, no matter what kind of commentaries may be written upon it.

For it is a book that will only open itself to spiritual understanding

and this is a capacity which no man is born with, but which he can

only acquire through special training and special experience. It is

good that such to all intents and purposes "useless" books exist. They

are meant for those "queer folk" who no longer set much store by the

uses, aims, and meaning of present-day "civilization."

To provide "special training" for the "special experience" provided by

psychedelic materials is the purpose of this version of The Tibetan

Book of the Dead.


In the preceding section the point was made that eastern philosophy

and psychology - poetic, indeterministic, experiential, inward-

looking, vaguely evolutionary, open-ended - is more easily adapted to

the findings of modern science than the syllogistic, certain,

experimental, externalizing logic of western psychology. The latter

imitates the irrelevant rituals of the energy sciences but ignores the

data of physics and genetics, the meanings and implications.

Even Carl Jung, the most penetrating of the western psychologists,

failed to understand the basic philosophy of the Bardo Thodol.

Quite in contrast are the comments on the Tibetan manual by Lama

Anagarika Govinda.

His opening statement at first glance would cause a Judaeo-Christian

psychologist to snort in impatience. But a close look at these phrases

reveals that they are the poetic statement of the genetic situation as

currently described by biochemists and DNA researchers.

It may be argued that nobody can talk about death with authority who

has not died; and since nobody, apparently, has ever returned from

death, how can anybody know what death is, or what happens after it?

The Tibetan will answer: "There is not one person, indeed, not one

living being, that has not returned from death. In fact, we all have

died many deaths, before we came into this incarnation. And what we

call birth is merely the reverse side of death, like one of the two

sides of a coin, or like a door which we call "entrance" from outside

and "exit" from inside a room."

The lama then goes on to make a second poetic comment about the

potentialities of the nervous system, the complexity of the human

cortical computer.

It is much more astonishing that not everybody remembers his or her

previous death; and, because of this lack of remembering, most persons

do not believe there was a previous death. But, likewise, they do not

remember their recent birth - and yet they do not doubt that they were

recently born. They forget that active memory is only a small part of

our normal consciousness, and that our subconscious memory registers

and preserves every past impression and experience which our waking

mind fails to recall.

The lama then proceeds to slice directly to the esoteric meaning of

the Bardo Thodol - that core meaning which Jung and indeed most

European Orientalists have failed to grasp.

For this reason, the Bardo Thodol, the Tibetan book vouchsafing

liberation from the intermediate state between life and re-birth,-

which state men call death,- has been couched in symbolical language.

It is a book which is sealed with the seven seals of silence,- not

because its knowledge would be misunderstood, and, therefore, would

tend to mislead and harm those who are unfitted to receive it. But the

time has come to break the seals of silence; for the human race has

come to the juncture where it must decide whether to be content with

the subjugation of the material world, or to strive after the conquest

of the spiritual world, by subjugating selfish desires and

transcending self-imposed limitations.

The lama next describes the effects of consciousness-expansion

techniques. He is talking here about the method he knows-the Yogic-but

his words are equally applicable to psychedelic experience.

There are those who, in virtue of concentration and other yogic

practices, are able to bring the subconscious into the realm of

discriminative consciousness and, thereby, to draw upon the

unrestricted treasury of subconscious memory, wherein are stored the

records not only of our past lives but the records of the past of our

race, the past of humanity, and of all pre-human forms of life, if not

of the very consciousness that makes life possible in this universe.

If, through some trick of nature, the gates of an individual's

subconsciousness were suddenly to spring open, the unprepared mind

would be overwhelmed and crushed. Therefore, the gates of the

subconscious are guarded, by all initiates, and hidden behind the veil

of mysteries and symbols.

In a later section of his foreword the lama presents a more detailed

elaboration of the inner meaning of the Thodol.

If the Bardo Thodol were to be regarded as being based merely upon

folklore, or as consisting of religious speculation about death and a

hypothetical after-death state, it would be of interest only to

anthropologists and students of religion. But the Bardo Thodol is far

more. It is a key to the innermost recesses of the human mind, and a

guide for initiates, and for those who are seeking the spiritual path

of liberation.

Although the Bardo Thodol is at present time widely used in Tibet as a

breviary, and read or recited on the occasion of death,- for which

reason it has been aptly called "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"- one

should not forget that it was originally conceived to serve as a guide

not only for the dying and the dead, but for the living as well. And

herein lies the justification for having made The Tibetan Book of the

Dead accessible to a wider public.

Notwithstanding the popular customs and beliefs which, under the

influence of age-old traditions of pre-Buddhist origin, have grown

around the profound revelations of the Bardo Thodol, it has value only

for those who practise and realize its teaching during their life-


There are two things which have caused misunderstanding. One is that

the teachings seem to be addressed to the dead or the dying; the other

that the title contains the expression "Liberation through Hearing"

(in Tibetan, Thos-grol). As a result, there has arisen the belief that

it is sufficient to read or recite the Bardo Thodol in the presence of

a dying person, or even of a person who has just died, in order to

effect his or her liberation.

Such misunderstanding could only have arisen among those who do not

know that it is one of the oldest and most universal practices for the

initiate to go through the experience of death before he can be

spiritually reborn. Symbolically he must die to his past, and to his

old ego, before he can take his place in the new spiritual life into

which he has been initiated.

The dead or the dying person is addressed in the Bardo Thodol mainly

for three reasons: (1) the earnest practitioner of these teachings

should regard every moment of his or her life as if it were the last;

(2) when a follower of these teachings is actually dying, he or she

should be reminded of the experiences at the time of initiation, or of

the words (or mantra) of the guru, especially if the dying one's mind

lacks alertness during the critical moments; and (3) one who is still

incarnate should try to surround the person dying, or just dead, with

loving and helpful thoughts during the first stages of the new, or

afterdeath, state of existence, without allowing emotional attachment

to interfere or to give rise to a state of morbid mental depression.

Accordingly, one function of the Bardo Thodol appears to be more to

help those who have been left behind to adopt the right attitude

towards the dead and towards the fact of death than to assist the

dead, who, according to Buddhist belief, will not deviate from their

own karmic path. . . .

This proves that we have to do here with life itself and not merely

with a mass for the dead, to which the Bardo Thodol was reduced in

later times. . . .

Under the guise of a science of death, the Bardo Thodol reveals the

secret of life; and therein lies its spiritual value and its universal


Here then is the key to a mystery which has been passed down for over

2,500 years - the consciousness-expansion experience - the pre-mortem

death and rebirth rite. The Vedic sages knew the secret; the

Eleusinian initiates knew it; the Tantrics knew it. In all their

esoteric writings they whisper the message: it is possible to cut

beyond ego-consciousness, to tune in on neurological processes which

flash by at the speed of light, and to become aware of the enormous

treasury of ancient racial knowledge welded into the nucleus of every

cell in your body.

Modern psychedelic chemicals provide a key to this forgotten realm of

awareness. But just as this manual without the psychedelic awareness

is nothing but an exercise in academic Tibetology, so, too, the potent

chemical key is of little value without the guidance and the


Westerners do not accept the existence of conscious processes for

which they have no operational term. The attitude which is prevalent

is: - if you can't label it, and if it is beyond current notions of

space-time and personality, then it is not open for investigation.

Thus we see the ego-loss experience confused with schizophrenia. Thus

we see present-day psychiatrists solemnly pronouncing the psychedelic

keys as psychosis-producing and dangerous.

The new visionary chemicals and the pre-mortem-death-rebirth

experience may be pushed once again into the shadows of history.

Looking back, we remember that every middle-eastern and European

administrator (with the exception of certain periods in Greece and

Persia) has, during the last three thousand years, rushed to pass laws

against any emerging transcendental process, the pre-mortem-death-

rebirth session, its adepts, and any new method of consciousness-


The present moment in human history (as Lama Govinda points out) is

critical. Now, for the first time, we possess the means of providing

the enlightenment to any prepared volunteer. (The enlightenment always

comes, we remember, in the form of a new energy process, a physical,

neurological event.) For these reasons we have prepared this

psychedelic version of The Tibetan Book of the Dead. The secret is

released once again, in a new dialect, and we sit back quietly to

observe whether man is ready to move ahead and to make use of the new

tools provided by modern science.






(Chikhai Bardo)

Part I: The Primary Clear Light Seen At the Moment of Ego-Loss.

All individuals who have received the practical teachings of this

manual will, if the text be remembered, be set face to face with the

ecstatic radiance and will win illumination instantaneously, without

entering upon hallucinatory struggles and without further suffering on

the age-long pathway of normal evolution which traverses the various

worlds of game existence.

This doctrine underlies the whole of the Tibetan model. Faith is the

first step on the "Secret Pathway." Then comes illumination and with

it certainty; and when the goal is won, emancipation. Success implies

very unusual preparation in consciousness expansion, as well as much

calm, compassionate game playing (good karma) on the part of the

participant. If the participant can be made to see and to grasp the

idea of the empty mind as soon as the guide reveals it - that is to

say, if he has the power to die consciously - and, at the supreme

moment of quitting the ego, can recognize the ecstasy which will dawn

upon him then, and become one with it, all game bonds of illusion are

broken asunder immediately: the dreamer is awakened into reality

simultaneously with the mighty achievement of recognition.

It is best if the guru (spiritual teacher), from whom the participant

received guiding instructions, is present, but if the guru cannot be

present, then another experienced person; or it the latter is also

unavailable, then a person whom the participant trusts should be

available to read this manual without imposing any of his own games.

Thereby the participant will be put in mind of what he had previously

heard of the experience and will at once come to recognize the

fundamental Light and undoubtedly obtain liberation.

Liberation is the nervous system devoid of mental-conceptual activity.

[Realization of the Voidness, the Unbecome, the Unborn, the Unmade,

the Unformed, implies Buddhahood, Perfect Enlightenment - the state of

the divine mind of the Buddha. It may be helpful to remember that this

ancient doctrine is not in conflict with modern physics. The

theoretical physicist and cosmologist, George Gamow, presented in 1950

a viewpoint which is close to the phenomenological experience

described by the Tibetan lamas.

If we imagine history running back in time, we inevitably come to the

epoch of the "big squeeze" with all the galaxies, stars, atoms and

atomic nuclei squeezed, so to speak, to a pulp. During that early

stage of evolution, matter must have been dissociated into its

elementary components. . . . We call this primordial mixture ylem.

At this first point in the evolution of the present cycle, according

to this first-rank physicist, there existed only the Unbecome, the

Unborn, the Unformed. And this, according to astrophysicists, is the

way it will end; the silent unity of the Unformed. The Tibetan

Buddhists suggest that the uncluttered intellect can experience what

astrophysics confirms. The Buddha Vairochana, the Dhyani Buddha of the

Center, Manifester of Phenomena, is the highest path to enlightenment.

As the source of all organic life, in him all things visible and

invisible have their consummation and absorption. He is associated

with the Central Realm of the Densely-Packed, i.e., the seed of all

universal forces and things are densely packed together. This

remarkable convergence of modern astrophysics and ancient lamaism

demands no complicated explanation. The cosmological awareness- and

awareness of every other natural process- is there in the cortex. You

can confirm this preconceptual mystical knowledge by empirical

observation and measurement, but it's all there inside your skull.

Your neurons "know" because they are linked directly to the process,

are part of it.] The mind in its conditioned state, that is to say,

when limited to words and ego games, is continuously in thought-

formation activity. The nervous system in a state of quiescence,

alert, awake but not active is comparable to what Buddhists call the

highest state of dhyana (deep meditation) when still united to a human

body. The conscious recognition of the Clear Light induces an ecstatic

condition of consciousness such as saints and mystics of the West have

called illumination.

The first sign is the glimpsing of the "Clear Light of Reality," "the

infallible mind of the pure mystic state." This is the awareness of

energy transformations with no imposition of mental categories.

The duration of this state varies with the individual. It depends upon

experience, security, trust, preparation and the surroundings. In

those who have had even a little practical experience of the tranquil

state of non-game awareness, and in those who have happy games, this

state can last from thirty minutes to several hours.

In this state, realization of what mystics call the "Ultimate Truth"

is possible, provided that sufficient preparation has been made by the

person beforehand. Otherwise he cannot benefit now, and must wander on

into lower and lower conditions of hallucinations, as determined by

his past games, until he drops back to routine reality.

It is important to remember that the conscious-expansion process is

the reverse of the birth process, birth being the beginning of game

life and the ego-loss experience being a temporary ending of game

life. But in both there is a passing from one state of consciousness

into another. And just as an infant must wake up and learn from

experience the nature of this world, so likewise a person at the

moment of consciousness expansion must wake up in this new brilliant

world and become familiar with its own peculiar conditions.

In those who are heavily dependent on their ego games, and who dread

giving up their control, the illuminated state endures only so long as

it would take to snap a finger. In some, it lasts as long as the time

taken for eating a meal.

If the subject is prepared to diagnose the symptoms of ego loss, he

needs no outside help at this point. Not only should the person about

to give up his ego be able to diagnose the symptoms as they come, one

by one, but he should also be able to recognize the Clear Light

without being set face to face with it by another person. If the

person fails to recognize and accept the onset of ego loss, he may

complain of strange bodily symptoms. This shows that he has not

reached a liberated state. Then the guide or friend should explain the

symptoms as indicating the onset of ego loss.

Here is a list of commonly reported physical sensations:

1. Bodily pressure, which the Tibetans call earth-sinking-into-water;

2. Clammy coldness, followed by feverish heat, which the Tibetans call

water-sinking-into-fire; 3. Body disintegrating or blown to atoms,

called fire-sinking-into-air; 4. Pressure on head and ears, which

Americans call rocket-launching-into-space; 5. Tingling in

extremities; 6. Feelings of body melting or flowing as if wax; 7.

Nausea; 8. Trembling or shaking, beginning in pelvic regions and

spreading up torso.

These physical reactions should be recognized as signs heralding

transcendence. Avoid treating them as symptoms of illness, accept

them, merge with them, enjoy them.

Mild nausea occurs often with the ingestion of morning-glory seeds or

peyote, rarely with mescaline and infrequently with LSD or psilocybin.

If the subject experiences stomach messages, they should be hailed as

a sign that consciousness is moving around in the body. The symptoms

are mental; the mind controls the sensation, and the subject should

merge with the sensation, experience it fully, enjoy it and, having

enjoyed it, let consciousness flow on to the next phase. It is usually

more natural to let consciousness stay in the body - the subject's

attention can move from the stomach and concentrate on breathing,

heart beat. If this does not free him from nausea, the guide should

move the consciousness to external events - music, walking in the

garden, etc.

The appearance of physical symptoms of ego-loss, recognized and

understood, should result in peaceful attainment of illumination. If

ecstatic acceptance does not occur (or when the period of peaceful

silence seems to be ending), the relevant sections of the instructions

can be spoken in a low tone of voice in the ear. It is often useful to

repeat them distinctly, clearly impressing them upon the person so as

to prevent his mind from wandering. Another method of guiding the

experience with a minimum of activity is to have the instructions

previously recorded in the subject's own voice and to flip the tape on

at the appropriate moment. The reading will recall to the mind of the

voyager the former preparation; it will cause the naked consciousness

to be recognized as the "Clear Light of the Beginning;" it will remind

the subject of his unity with this state of perfect enlightenment and

help him to maintain it.

If, when undergoing ego-loss, one is familiar with this state, by

virtue of previous experience and preparation, the Wheel of Rebirth

(i.e., all game playing) is stopped, and liberation instantaneously is

achieved. But such spiritual efficiency is so very rare, that the

normal mental condition of the person is unequal to the supreme feat

of holding on to the state in which the Clear Light shines; and there

follows a progressive descent into lower and lower states of the Bardo

existence, and then rebirth. The simile of a needle balanced and set

rolling on a thread is used by the lamas to elucidate this condition.

So long as the needle retains its balance, it remains on the thread.

Eventually, however, the law of gravitation (the pull of the ego or

external stimulation) affects it, and it falls. In the realm of the

Clear Light, similarly, the mentality of a person in the ego-

transcendent state momentarily enjoys a condition of balance, of

perfect equilibrium, and of oneness. Unfamiliar with such a state,

which is an ecstate state of non-ego, the consciousness of the average

human being lacks the power to function in it. Karmic (i.e., game)

propensities becloud the consciousness-principle with thoughts of

personality, of individualized being, of dualism. Thus, losing

equilibrium, consciousness falls away from the Clear Light. It is

thought processes which prevent the realization of Nirvana (which is

the "blowing out of the flame" of selfish game desire); and so the

Wheel of Life continues to turn.

All or some of the appropriate passages in the instructions may be

read to the voyager during the period of waiting for the drug to take

effect, and when the first symptoms of ego-loss appear. When the

voyager is clearly in a profound ego-transcendent ecstasy, the wise

guide will remain silent.

Part II: The Secondary Clear Light Seen Immediately After Ego-Loss.

The preceding section describes how the Clear Light may be recognized

and liberation maintained. But if it becomes apparent that the Primary

Clear Light has not been recognized, then it can certainly be assumed

there is dawning what is called the phase of the Secondary Clear

Light. The first flash of experience usually produces a state of

ecstasy of the greatest intensity. Every cell in the body is sensed as

involved in orgastic creativity.

It may be helpful to describe in more detail some of the phenomena

which often accompany the moment of ego-loss. One of these might be

called "wave energy flow." The individual becomes aware that he is

part of and surrounded by a charged field of energy, which seems

almost electrical. In order to maintain the ego-loss state as long as

possible, the prepared person will relax and allow the forces to flow

through him. There are two dangers to avoid: the attempt to control or

to rationalize this energy flow. Either of these reactions is

indicative of ego-activity and the First Bardo transcendence is lost.

The second phenomenon might be called "biological life-flow." Here the

person becomes aware of physiological and biochemical processes;

rhythmic pulsing activity within the body. Often this may be sensed as

powerful motors or generators continously throbbing and radiating

energy. An endless flow of cellular forms and colors flashes by.

Internal biological processes may also be heard with characteristic

swooshing, crackling, and pounding noises. Again the person must

resist the temptation to label or control these processes. At this

point you are tuned in to areas of the nervous system which are

inaccessible to routine perception. You cannot drag your ego into the

molecular processes of life. These processes are a billion years older

than the learned conceptual mind.

Another typical and most rewarding phase of the First Bardo involves

ecstatic energy movement felt in the spine. The base of the backbone

seems to be melting or seems on fire. If the person can maintain quiet

concentration the energy will be sensed as flowing upwards. Tantric

adepts devote decades of concentrated meditation to the release of

these ecstatic energies which they call Kundalini, the Serpent Power.

One allows the energies to travel upwards through several ganglionic

centers (chakras) to the brain, where they are sensed as a burning

sensation in the top of the cranium. These sensations are not

unpleasant to the prepared person, but, on the contrary, are

accompanied by the most intense feelings of joy and illumination. Ill-

prepared subjects may interpret the experience in pathological terms

and attempt to control it, usually with unpleasant results. [Professor

R. C. Zaehner, who as an Oriental scholar and "expert" on mysticism

should have know better, has published an account of how this prized

experience can be lost and distorted into hypochondriacal complaint in

the ill-educated.

. . . I had a curious sensation in my body which reminded me of what

Mr. Custance describes as a "tingling at the base of the spine," which

according to him, usually precedes a bout of mania. It was rather like

that. In the Broad Walk this sensation occurred again and again until

the climax of the exp

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the darkestlight

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 138
Loc: st.louis
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: book of the dead [Re: Mr_Gubjet]
    #2594897 - 04/23/04 03:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

dude posts like that should be illegal........okay okay i'm a lazy asshole!

where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.

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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
Re: book of the dead [Re: Mr_Gubjet]
    #2594969 - 04/23/04 03:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting... thank you for posting that, I've read as much as I can and bookmarked it for later. :wink:

I have The Egyptian Book Of The Dead bookmarked somewhere and started reading it... I need to find the time to do it, but I imagine that Leary's version of the Tibetan one would be the best to read first.. then the Tibetan Book Of The Dead itself... I imagine that the Egyptian one is more primitive, in a sense, and that it might be more difficult to discover the meaning inside the symbolism....

I had a very interesting part I read in that and wanted to paste it here to really make it stuck out.. but now I can't find it. :frown:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: 
Peace. :mushroom2:

If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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the darkestlight

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 138
Loc: st.louis
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: book of the dead [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2595002 - 04/23/04 03:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)


fireworks_god said:
Very interesting... thank you for posting that, I've read as much as I can and bookmarked it for later. :wink:

I have The Egyptian Book Of The Dead bookmarked somewhere and started reading it... I need to find the time to do it, but I imagine that Leary's version of the Tibetan one would be the best to read first.. then the Tibetan Book Of The Dead itself... I imagine that the Egyptian one is more primitive, in a sense, and that it might be more difficult to discover the meaning inside the symbolism....

I had a very interesting part I read in that and wanted to paste it here to really make it stuck out.. but now I can't find it. :frown:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: 
Peace. :mushroom2:

the truth is hidden between the metaphor.

where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.

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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
Re: book of the dead [Re: faelr]
    #2595084 - 04/23/04 03:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)


faelr said:
[the truth is hidden between the metaphor.

Indeed.  :grin:

The ultimate metaphor is life... the truth is hidden within life.  :headbang:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:

If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: book of the dead [Re: faelr]
    #2595127 - 04/23/04 04:01 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

dude posts like that should be illegal

It is illegal. I guess when you are "spiritual" enough you can transcend ordinary laws about stealing and such.


The proof is in the pudding.

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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
Re: book of the dead [Re: Swami]
    #2595609 - 04/23/04 06:21 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)


Swami said:
dude posts like that should be illegal

It is illegal. I guess when you are "spiritual" enough you can transcend ordinary laws about stealing and such.

It was Timothy Leary's The Psychadelic Experience, wasn't it? It wasn't from a book... I am pretty sure you can find it legally and free on the net. I don't know for certain though, but I am sure someone here has read it and would know.  :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:

If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
the darkestlight

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 138
Loc: st.louis
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: book of the dead [Re: Swami]
    #2596124 - 04/23/04 09:59 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)


Swami said:
dude posts like that should be illegal

It is illegal. I guess when you are "spiritual" enough you can transcend ordinary laws about stealing and such.

:lol:very clever!:lol:

where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.

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