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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: Zahid]
    #2803661 - 06/17/04 11:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Boring
































(in general not directed at any post)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 24 days
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2803714 - 06/17/04 11:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

This harkens back to that ol' 'If a tree falls in the forest, and there are no ears (animal, insect, or electronic) present, does it make a sound?' Air is compressed by the concussion, but without the presence of sensory-receiving apparatus... You see, we all have assumptions about this situation. It is a philosophical problem. There is no such thing as 'objective reality' - that is 19th century science. The very fact that we, humans, exist means that we are an integral part of psychophysical reality. We cannot abstractly extract our presence from a given phenomenon and say that THAT constitutes 'objective reality.' Such an abstraction is a fiction. This is tantamount to asking what Reality was prior to the Big Bang. Now THAT is what I consider to be 'Reality,' only in this instance, Objective Reality is also Subjective Reality simultaneously, and that Reality is Ultimate Reality, i.e., GOD.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2804025 - 06/18/04 01:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
This harkens back to that ol' 'If a tree falls in the forest, and there are no ears (animal, insect, or electronic) present, does it make a sound?' Air is compressed by the concussion, but without the presence of sensory-receiving apparatus... You see, we all have assumptions about this situation. It is a philosophical problem.




What's the problem? The question would lead me to assume that reality does exist. If sound is merely the vibrations transmitted through a medium which can be detected by human organs, then based on my axioms I would come to the conclusion that yes a sound was made.

Quote:

There is no such thing as 'objective reality' - that is 19th century science.




I consider it axiomatic that physical reality does exist.

19th century science, my ass. 21st century science considers this axiomatic as well. Most people assume that, yes, a physical reality does in fact exist.

Quote:

The very fact that we, humans, exist means that we are an integral part of psychophysical reality.




No, I think that humans do exist in physical reality, however the reality that a human perceives is not a perfect match to physical reality.

Quote:

We cannot abstractly extract our presence from a given phenomenon and say that THAT constitutes 'objective reality.'




But certainly it bears some relationship to objective reality.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 24 days
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2804788 - 06/18/04 09:59 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Vibrations may exist, but that which WE call 'a sound' - the interaction between the vibrations and the ear/nervous system - does NOT exist in actuality, only in potentia.

Pre-Einsteinian thinking also held that time was absolute not relative. The speed of light was not regarded as a Constant. I read with amusement a copy of 'Etidorpha,' (Aphrodite, backwards) a 19th century fantasy which includes subterranean forests of giant mushrooms, and included is the notion of a physical object that maintains its mass even when accelerated to 'infinite speed.' I digress.

I am not denying physical reality. I am saying that one cannot extract the human element in the perception of physical reality. As far back as the early 19th century philosopher Kant elaborated the notion of the Phenomenal world which we perceive, and the Noumenal world which exists independently of our perception. The Noumenal cannot be known, by natural perceptions or artificial extensions of perception (machines). We assume rightly that IF a sentient being is within range of a sensory-stimulating event like a crashing tree, THEN it could be perceived. I'm sure you don't have a problem agreeing that concussions of rock in deep space are silent. That is the nature of vacuum - no medium to convey vibrations. If a meteor hit your space helmet, you'd hear it! Then you'd have a nervous system plus a helmet and air to complete the phenomenon of 'a sound.' Otherwise, its ability to create sound is only a potential ability. Meteors banging in space are REALLY silent whether there is a witness of not. And hey...'in space, no one can hear you scream!'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2805833 - 06/18/04 03:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I am not denying physical reality. I am saying that one cannot extract the human element in the perception of physical reality.




Well, I would agree with that as well, but I think that the human element is a physical element.  It seems akin to the problem of modelling the universe on a computer.  So, I don't see the mismatch or disconnection as a result of having a consciousness which is not part of the physical world.  I think that we cannot perfectly understand reality precisely because our conscious minds are a part of the physical world. That model won't be perfectly accurate.  I agree that humans are going to have inaccurate aspects wrt their understanding of the world.

Quote:

The Noumenal cannot be known, by natural perceptions or artificial extensions of perception (machines).




I agree that it cannot be known perfectly.

Quote:

And hey...'in space, no one can hear you scream!'




Lt. E. Ripley might disagree with that :wink:


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: books written by S&amp;P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2809808 - 06/19/04 11:20 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'd read Swami's book :-D

I would like to someday write a book that shows your average American to become a bit more independant and help stimulate some positive change

Things like taking part in local governmental affairs, growing one's own food, supplying one's own power.

I have also toyed with the idea of writing something that ties together all of the new-age lifestyles. I see many groups of almost cultish origins arising today that are all separate in their final vision and their major beliefs, but all share the same path to that vision. I would like to discuss the similarities between many of today's movements to show that they are all helping to serve a larger purpose.

Unfortunately, wanting to write on these subjects, I don't expect much readership; but "not much" is more than nothing :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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