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Offlinealuminum_can
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tibetan book of the dead
    #394893 - 09/15/01 03:58 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

anyone read this??? it is a 60 page document that i found that was written by tim leary and two other peoples. it is about the buddhism religion and death. i have only read like four pages and i am still on the introduction, so thats pretty much all that i know. it seems pretty interesting and teaches you about enlightenment, and other mind type things that help eliminate youre egos to let you become more better person. perfect thing for us trippers that know more about some things and have opened a few doors. from what ive read, tim leary did this with the help from his good'l buddy lsd. i found it on a search for timothy leary on morpheus (like napster) and this document came up so i downloaded it (took about 50 sec.) anyone else hear of this??? it seems pretty interesting!!

one plus one plus one equals three


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the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #394899 - 09/15/01 04:17 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

wow tim leary is magical... i think you mean the psychedelic experience BASED on the book of the dead. yes i read it, it will cause you more confusion during a trip than clarity.



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Offlinealuminum_can
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: holographic mind]
    #394902 - 09/15/01 04:50 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i am reading more about it right now, and it doesnt seem too confusing, but it seems not worth it for some reason. and whats so magical about tim leary???? i dont even know of alot of things that he did.

one plus one plus one equals three


--------------------
the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!



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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #394903 - 09/15/01 04:54 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

No, the book is authored by two rinpoches of the Tibetan tradition, NOT Timothy Leary. To them, death is the grand potential expression of Clear Light.. that's if the person makes through the stages of bardo.. while another tibetan practitioner guides the deceased through it..


For Twilight



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InvisibleKid
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #395480 - 09/16/01 12:13 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I believe the book is titled "The Psychedelic Experience." It's just a westerner psychedlic user's adaptation of the Tibetian Book of the Dead. If you're into that kind of thing, I guess it's a cool model for a psychedelic trip. I used to read it when tripping. It always got me going good while I was on LSD.



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InvisibleKid
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #395482 - 09/16/01 12:16 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Tim Leary basically was a Harvard professor (he had a Ph.D. is psychology, I think) and one night he took psilocybe mushrooms and decided that he learned more about his nervous system in those hours of tripping than in getting his Ph.D. So, he basically went around spreading his ideology that one didn't necessarily need school to know how to live, and that psychedelic drugs were the key to enlightenment.



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OfflineBeatnik
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: Kid]
    #395678 - 09/16/01 09:53 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

"he basically went around spreading his ideology that one didn't necessarily need school to know how to live, and that psychedelic drugs were the key to enlightenment."

Sounds good, but i have found very few people who are able to teach themselves something, without being whipped and yelled to do it properly.

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I toss, there for i am.


--------------------
Support the FSR

I toss, there for i am.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #395749 - 09/16/01 01:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The Psychedelic Experience was authored by Leary, Metzner, and Alpert (Ram Dass).
It's a manual based on The Tibetan Book of The Dead.
A manual.
You will never have any idea of its worth unless familiarize yourself with its contents (give it a good 2-3 readings, it is only about 60 pages after all) and then perform the Test, eh?
Consider it a laboratory report, of sorts.
Research the elements.
Perform the Test.
Watch the series of events connect like a fusion experiement from which you can document the effects with patience. Put it all down in scientific notation.
You are your own lab.
Why make assumptions on what its worth 'seems' until you've done the lab work?
Sometimes we don't get the best results from our first try.....


go on and set some records, eh?






--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleKid
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: Beatnik]
    #396000 - 09/16/01 06:45 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I think his ideology would've worked better if he'd told people to get educations, but instead of getting a job, start using psychedelics.



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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: Kid]
    #396055 - 09/16/01 07:45 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

it is interesting to note that in reminiscences by people who were in the harvard scene in the early 60s (huxley, huston smith, humphrey osmund...) most of the people on the psychedelic project wanted to keep tripping very discrete and for generally well-educated professional types --- and were concered about leary's psychedelic prosetylizing... huxley worried that if usage spread into wider circles and caught the attention of governmental types, the psychedelcs would be quicly illegalized --- which did in fact happen before the 60s were over...
the book has much useful advice, but... many people find the tibetan death & rebirth scenario not a perfect match for their tripping style... (leary's _psychedelic prayers_ is a rendering of some of the _tao te ching_ into a trip book...)
ram das's _BE HERE NOW_ (art director steve durkee also produced at lama foundation a sufi tripbook _toward the one_ and a tripbook caled _seed_ (lama has generated a lot of intresting spiritually based litrature...))
~~~
the bardo thodol is to be read to a dying buddhist (and daily for the next 49 days) to remind the dying person about buddhist truths... the white light of the void, getting off the whel of death and rebirth... and what t do if encountering wrathul deities, visions of whatever sort, and how to choose an optimal reincarnation at the end of the 49 days (since most of us have sufficient karmic debt to require reincarnation) --- and a bodisattva purposely reincarnates so that he (or she) may continue to work for the ultmate liberation of all sentient beings...

old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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not old enough to care


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OfflineMighty Bop
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: gnrm23]
    #396178 - 09/16/01 10:03 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I read that book a couple years ago then took some acid. While meditating, I entered the first bardo. It was both awesome and terrifying. So much information came into my thoughts.......Every so often I had to open my eyes to make sure I was still "there"........

Timothy Leary's homepage: Leary.com



--------------------
"One attaineth whatever state of being one thinketh about at the last when relinquishing the body, being ever absorbed in the thought thereof." - Sri Krishna to Arjuna, Bhagavad Gita, viii, 6


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InvisibleIshmael
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Registered: 10/29/99
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: aluminum_can]
    #396230 - 09/16/01 11:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The document you speak of can be found on Lycaeum.org (or at least, could be; I read it there many years ago).

The crux of the matter with this book is that pychedelics produce a state of 'mental death' without the associated physiological states (heart stops beating, stop breathing...ect ect). In essence, the drugs are poison which produces a very particular kind of experience - a very particular kind of poisoning. Normally, any animal which came along and ate such a mushroom, was thrust into a state of quasi-hellish introspective dispair (a racoon or bear perhaps) would probably /avoid/ eating such a mushroom again. A pychological detterant if you take my meaning. But the side effect is that in essence, under a high enough dosage, one seems to literally be able to cross that mental threshold between life and death. Here is where Leary and his parteners in writing this 'Pychedelic Cliffs Notes' to the Tibbetan Book of the Dead exhibited a flash of inspiration. The one unifying factor of tripping is that there never seems to be any unifying factors. Leary and Collegues identified Set and Setting a the main causes for response during a trip (this is explained in the aformentioned book), but they took it further and realized that the old method and imagery that Buddhism utilizes to describe the states of mental decay which are associated with the dying proccess were highly applicable and desirable to the Setting of the time (the 60s). That is not to say that the ideas presented are no longer applicable, simply that without an adequate primer in Eastern thought and pychology, it will be hard to really understand what is going on in the text in question (though the book is written for the common lay person's applications). But what must be understood is that like all religious artifacts, the Tibettan Book of the Dead is only useful to those that /believe/ in its value. It is an element of trust which allows one to really gain the actual benefits of this text.

Have I used the principles involved in the book in my own experiences - yes, several times and the results were always phenomenal. Clarity and Insight: The identification of the Clear Light as being the 'peak' of the experience and hallucinations as being bardo states...all quite important concepts. But possibly the most important is the emphasis of meditation...not allowing oneself to be encumbered by the concepts, but rather, prepared.

Ish



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InvisibleKid
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: Ishmael]
    #396384 - 09/17/01 02:41 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

> not allowing oneself to be encumbered by the concepts, but rather, prepared.

That's the beauty of the book. It admits that itself is only a model. One must release even the concepts of the model that they are using to reach this state. Enlightenment is the mind void of conceptual activity (there's a sentence similar to that in the book).



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #397641 - 09/18/01 07:34 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hey CJ -
Today I finished reading Lama Thubten Yeshe's 'The Bliss of the Inner Fire,' which is a beginners practical manual on the arousal of the tummo (parallel: Kundalini) in the Gelugpa tradition. I am still a student of Lama Govinda's Kagyu practice, but that is mostly theoretical in 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism.' We are the very Clear Light energy itself, and can experience this through this fundamental yoga by withdrawing the inner winds (prana) into a visualized 'short a' Tibetan letter placed in the central channel at the navel or sexual chakra levels. The red-white 'drop' at the Heart Center absorbs the winds at the moment of our death, if things go properly. These practices constitute the most esoteric aspects of Vajrayana/Tantrayana that can be found in the Bardo Thodol. I have begun these 'vase breathing' and visualizations again in order to teach my 'consort.' (Don't anyone tell her that I called her that - she'll assume her
Wrathful appearance!)



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: gnrm23]
    #397747 - 09/18/01 09:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

hey geezer, sorry to be pedantic but when you say "buddhist" you mean "TIBETAN buddhist" and when you say "buddhist truths" you mean TIBETAN buddhist truths.

i've had friends of mine tell me that the purest form of buddhism is Tibetan. basically because it's the most famous in the minds of westerners these days.

I'm not trying to criticize tibetan buddhism or anything, it's obviously amazing stuff but i do think people should know that it contains a whole lot of stuff that is uniquely TIBETAN and came from the ancient shamanistic practices of tibet, as well as a lot of indian tantric practices, a large pantheon of gods and bodhisattvas and various other demons etc often depicted with lots of arms, weapons and large breasts.....all of which really have nothing to do with the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama.

I'd love to learn more about it, but I really want more people to understand that the buddha was a guy who lived in india roughly 2500 years ago and that he meditated lots until he became "enlightened", and then started teaching people his method of meditation. he wasn't a god or any sort of supernatural being - or maybe he was (maybe we all are?) but he never claimed to be! one of his sermons (sutras, suttas), i forget what it's called but that's not so important, says something along these lines:

Do not believe something because it makes sense, seems logical.
Do not believe something because you have read it, in a book, in a holy scripture, anywhere.
Do not accept something as being true because your teacher tells you it is so.
Do not accept something as being true because it agrees with your own preconceived idea.
NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED IT YOURSELF - through your own "sense doors", eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, mind.

of course the above is repeated with "do not believe something to be UNTRUE because....."



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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: Traveller]
    #397799 - 09/18/01 10:35 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i stand corrected... tibetan ... (vajrayana - diamond vehicle - thunderbolt - still a mahanist tradtion...)
ya, the shakya clan ruled much of that portion of india now called nepal...
the southern school --- theravedan (elder way) may be closer to "historical" buddhism...
but the middle way has room for many paths, no?

old enough to know better
not old enough to care


--------------------
old enough to know better
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InvisibleIshmael
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Re: Traveller" [Re: Traveller]
    #397808 - 09/18/01 10:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Allow all things to exist in the realm of possibility until they have been proven true or untrue by experience and realization. And even then, do not believe that two similar experiences will produce the same outcome, for no matter how closely two experiences match, they are never the same in reality. Pure potential - expect all things and nothing while walking the path, and leave no footsteps.

I agree with you Traveller, if more people understood the nature of what you call Tibbetan Buddhism they would probably understand that it has many striking similarities between the revealed religions of the west. Perhaps that would be offputting or comforting, probably both for different individuals. But in the west, Buddhism has been...amalgamated. Differing schools, Dzogchen, Zen, your Tibbetan...they melt like races into the melting pot. Of course, what is left over is a mishmash and is sometimes contradictary (essentially, a Religion rather than a pychology) but when people of the West speak of Buddhism, this is usually what they mean. The Religious Mishmash. Many of the doctrinal truths are still there, as well as the common themes, but many of the details are distorted and rendered meaningless. I think this is what you're advocating against, perhaps - the continued melting. Well, unfortunately, that is the way our world is walking blissfully towards. Individualized thoughts, cultures, all becoming part of a whole single entity - only their utility remaining to be exploited with or (usually) without context.

"Where has our history gone?"
"What history?"

Ish



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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Traveller" [Re: Ishmael]
    #398094 - 09/19/01 10:32 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I'm saying that tibetan "buddhism" is already a traditional, mythical, cultural, technical mishmash, and that they practice a lot of (very intriguing and perhaps very powerful) things that aren't really "buddhist" at all.

as yet i have not practiced any tibetan techniques so i don't really KNOW anything about it for sure.



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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: tibetan book of the dead [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #398153 - 09/19/01 12:54 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i did a search on the book through the school's library loans and found nothing, but a search on the author produced half a dozen of his books on tantra and buddhism. manuals, practices, exercises are things i'm finding especially useful right now. as a psychology/philosophy major, it's very easy to live _in_ theory and thought - i literally spend half of my day processing through theory.
a few practical techniques i practice throughout the day when i find the right set/setting allow me to reduce tension-thought and radiate soft, sweet Heart Transmission. it makes enough of a difference to me that i feel empowered by thought instead of enslaved, and i also feel that there are different facets of thought that demand excercised to keep me feeling fresh and alive - including playful social interaction, debating, mental puzzles, sex, creativity, intuition, exc.
i have so much in my world as it is and live in thought so much that i'm sometimes reluctant to add new theory. a good OMMMMMMM is what it takes to bring things to just where i am so that i can see what i got more clearly.
thanks for the post, the Clear Light and Heart Center are planes i experience daily but need more commitment and techniques to focus with.
peace/CJ




--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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