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books written by S&P members...who's would you read?
    #2790169 -

here are my choices, and for those that I picked out, how accurate am I?  :grin:

Swami:  for a great dose of common sense that's easy to understand and a hint of cynicism, swami would deliver on all cylanders.  a fast (and probably short) book on the importance of being authentic, responsible for one's actions, increased awareness, and an overall sense that we might be making this world a little too complicated for ourselves.

Ped:  not only would this be a joy to read, but one would encounter logic not normaly seen in western society.  articulate in every sense of the word, Ped would be an author who will leave the reader dazzled and amazed on how much we might be ignoring regarding existence on a whole.  Ped...making difficult ideas not as difficult...can you feel the love?

Markosthegnostic:  no one at S&P would be able to combine litterly hundreds of different philosophies on each subject presented into a single book cohesive enough to understand, but chalk-full of information as to not let the reader feel disappointed. knowledge litterly flows from his finger tips.  If there ever was a book to present nearly the entire spectrum of mankind's different philosophies, and stick them all together for support of each other...markos would be the man hands down.

shroomism: love and light, compassion and togetherness, service to others...these are just a taste of the many teachings this book would offer.  i think this book would be great in teaching openmindedness and togetherness in order to make this world a much more peacful place to live in.  the intent would be known, whether it's meditation, astral projection, balancing chakra's, or jsut handling the different situations life throws out at you, this book would be a comfort and a very informative read.

trendal:  a blend of science and philosophy a wrapped in a huge dose of common sense and humbleness.  this owuld be book that would give out specific details on what isn't known about our universe, tied into with what is known. not so much in giving assertions, but rather asking questions making the reader think on what is really happened and some of their implications.  a venture more of us should delve into.

those are my picks...which ones are yours?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790191 -

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now tell us of the kaiowas' book.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790194 -

I would pick shroomism and trendal :thumbup:  And ped too, but only after I've managed to broaden my sense of the english vocabulary :smile:  I can only imagine a book by ped would be so big and contain heavy philosophies, but interesting and very well put none the less.

You really got their individual styles down man :wink:


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2790197 -

Swami said:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now tell us of the kaiowas' book.


yeah, I was gonna say  :laugh:


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790508 -

If you guys would actually read my book... I've been toying with the idea of writing one for quite some time now. Of course you guys know what the content would consist of mostly... but I might throw a little loops in there you wouldn't expect :laugh:

I've actually written a few "chapters" already..stored on some computer somewhere.. but this may be just the inspiration I need to get it started again.

As for me.. I would want to read a book written by Ped for sure.


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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2790520 -

Do it!

I think a large amount of poster here at the s&p have lots of potential to write good spiritual philosophic books.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790562 -

It would be a very fantastic idea to collaborately publish a Spirituality&Philosophy book that consists of chapters and subchapters of spiritual and philisophical assertations, insights, thoughts, excerpts and such of Shroomerites, with each chapter per shroomerite's S&P literature that they wish to share with the world...
And of course, share the profits equally.

"Spirituality and Philosophy of The Shroomery"

For the most part, it would simply be a matter of waiting until everybody who wishes to participate has written their contributory 'chapter' for the book, and then organizing the chapters in whichever fashion is collectively elected by the group of authors, then sending the final copy of the book to Frog, a lawyer, who can handle the legal matters of publishing it.. and then let it fly from there.  :rocket:
I would contribute, gladly.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

Edited by SkorpivoMusterion (06/13/04 06:48 PM)

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790710 -

I barely have the attention span to read half of these long posts, let alone a book by someone here.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2790757 -

Interesting thread. Myself, I would definitely choose the same members that you listed, for almost exactly the same assessments you gave. :thumbup:

I would also like to think that Frog would write an enertaining scripture. I haven't been around for awhile, so I can't think of anyone else's book I would read at the moment...

Come to think of it, I would definitely read Deiymiyan's book as well. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2790894 -

yeah, we can do this!!! 


each chapter(s) will be our name..or something.

this could be a start of something really beautiful :laugh:


I got a couple of ideas as it is, but i don't know if it would be unique.

nevertheless a book idea is super sweet.  hella cool idea!  :thumbup:

so far skorp shroomism me and fireworks will contribute!! who's else is in??  :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :heart:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2790931 -

Swami said:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now tell us of the kaiowas' book.



hehe my ego can't resist :wink:


kaiowas:  my book would center around using common sense in order to bring about love and compassion in our everyday lives.  to use our ego and negativity as tools in order to become way more efficient in what we want to do. better yourself, which in turn helps better the people around you. this in turn would give ideas to bring back the appreciation and awe in existence itself.  now doesn't THAT sound like a book to read :wink: hehe


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2790939 -

The collective visions book of spiritual perceptions.. I love it!! :thumbup: :grin:
I'd love if Swami and Markos would like to contribute as well.. it would provide a vast diversity of insights and other such magickal formulas.


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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2790944 -

"I'd love if Swami and Markos would like to contribute as well.. it would provide a vast diversity of insights and other such magickal formulas. "

EXACTLY!

personally i would love to see those main five do the book or at least be the centerpeace of the book.  they are all diverse enough and yet....they all have a little something in common don't they...

kinda why I posted this in the first place :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2791129 -

I don't know if the poster even posts in this forum, but I would read a book by Spud.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2791131 -

I've seen him post here occasionally, and I agree.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2791188 -

id contribute to this....actually, the more i think about it, i wouldnt probably add anything new to anyone here...so i probably wouldnt


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

Edited by CleverName (06/14/04 07:40 AM)

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: CleverName]
    #2791753 -

I would too.

But I understand if y'all don't think I've proven myself as much of a writer. I don't spend that much time writing, but I have a lot of things bouncing around in my head.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2791782 -

i dunno jacques
i always thought you went pretty deep :grin:

Edited by mr crisper (06/14/04 08:25 AM)

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: mr crisper]
    #2792299 -

I think a collection of essays by shroomerites would be an awesome project. I'd be willing to contribute in any way I could. Great idea dudes!


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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: chunder]
    #2792318 -

I'd be damned if I dont contribute... that is... if its allright with all of y'all's.

Its going to take some time though, but I guess that goes without saying.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: filthysock]
    #2792356 -

I'd contribute, but mine probably wouldn't be that long. My writing style tends to be short and to the point.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2792373 -

That's a strength in essay writing.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2792380 -

Mine is always long and I involve so many differant aspects backing eachothers points up. Because everything in my philosophy intertwines with eachother and I dont feel right not going into every detail of every aspect... but I could try to make it short if there is any deadline or whatever. I''m sure I could finish with something by the end of the summer though.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2792433 -

I want to write a book someday for sure, I don't have a clue how good my book would be. But I have a lot of ideas, that is for sure. I definately think the Shroomery S&P would be a great place for help and inspiration a long the way. Not too many people are aware of my ideas, as I don't post here much at all. But I have talked to some people here, and there are many great ideas floating around.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: filthysock]
    #2792482 -

It will take some time, but no matter. I don't mind if this takes years to actualize; I'm in no rush, but at the same time I will not take my 'sweet olde time' either. We should keep an updated list of people who are actually serious about contributing some material, whether it be epic spiritual insights, philisophical lectures, or re-collected deep S&P conversations with other members (identities kept safe, of course) pasted into the book. I believe anybody contributing to such a book of this nature will naturally wish to add that particular form of material, in addition to their primary contributory assertations of spirituality and philisophy of Life and the Universe, and so forth..

The prolegomenon of the book should be started with an introduction to the premise of the book, the authors/shroomerites..and of course.. The Shroomery. I think Papaver would make a great intro.

Frog mentioned that there are places, online, that one can handle the publishing process their writings and books. Publishing a book has never been easier than today... :smile:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2792994 -

Hell yeah papaver would make a great intro!

I see this book as an organized manifestation of the authors beliefs.  I think this book can be very interesting for readers.  It could have a chapter for each s&p author and sub chapters within each author if the author wishes so.  I would for one, would write a chapter on mainly entheogens, then one on spirituality... etc, for instance.  But I dont think I will but my entire lifes philosophy in this book, I gotta reserve some stuff for my own book sometime in the future  :wink:

By the way, I'm fucked up om some pills, sorry if this post didnt make sense to you, peace.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: filthysock]
    #2793031 -

I would for one, would write a chapter on mainly entheogens, then one on spirituality... By the way, I'm fucked up om some pills...

Sounds v-e-r-y spiritual to disturb your body's finely honed functioning.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2793075 -

:rolleyes:


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: filthysock]
    #2793378 -

I'm sorry, you are right. Spirituality is NOT about clarity of mind and centeredness, but about getting fucked up on chemicals.  :syringe:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2794848 -

Ok, so I popped pills yesterday, so what...?


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2795009 -

I would say that spirituality entails the exploration of the universe, which is filled with chemicals :smile:

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would y [Re: kaiowas]
    #2795038 -

"I would say that spirituality entails the exploration of the universe, which is filled with chemicals"

If you are exploring chemicals then you will discover things about chemicals not about spirituality.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would y [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2795101 -

DoctorJ is right. Chemicals in your brain is what made up the word "spirituality" and given it meaning, so when you are exploring chemicals, you deeply discover what spirituality is and how,why,when it was created.


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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would y [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2795629 -

Quote:
Chemicals in your brain is what made up the word "spirituality" and given it meaning, so when you are exploring chemicals, you deeply discover what spirituality is and how,why,when it was created.



nice.  :thumbup:

I was gonna say: "STFU n00b!!!"

:lol:

but your response was better :smile:

also, isn't spirituality 'all encompassing'?  If indeed it does exist, is there anything that isn't a part of it?

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would y [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2795726 -

I would contend that your average marathon runner is far more "spiritual" than your average pill-popper.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2795832 -

I'd definately read works by MarkosTheGnostic and trendal. Maybe even Mixmatosis and Poisontrous for their lil' pamphlet o' cynical thoughts!


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Fold for The Shroomery!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2796056 -

It would be a very fantastic idea to collaborately publish a Spirituality&Philosophy book that consists of chapters and subchapters of spiritual and philisophical assertations, insights, thoughts, excerpts and such of Shroomerites, with each chapter per shroomerite's S&P literature that they wish to share with the world...


That is a really interesting option!

:thumbup:


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Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would y [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2796642 -

DoctorJ said:
also, isn't spirituality 'all encompassing'? If indeed it does exist, is there anything that isn't a part of it?


It depends on who you ask. Some will assert that spirituality is about learning things which are not physical and thus outside the realm of "mere" science (and thus, IMO, are nonsense forms of knowledge).

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2798917 -

hahaha you guys, you're so KEEN

I think quality control is a gooooood idea. Like everybody who wants can write an essay with X number of words and then vote for the top 10. Of course, nobody's going to be actually doing it, so...

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: daba]
    #2799009 -

That's mighty kind of you daba, but I gotta tell you that I have published a book with Microfilms International, 222 pages, 1983. It was my Doctoral dissertation, and in the 21 years since its been around, there are only 10 people who read any of it - 5 on my doctoral committee, and 5 people who purchased it in paper or microfiche (I think I received a royalties check for $17). I wrote it chapter by chapter with an eye to making it readable by anyone interested in the subject of utilizing an ancient Buddhist psychology to illustrate that various Western schools of psychology are ALL correct if one views them as different perspectives that are represented by Chakras in Vajrayana Buddhism. Any takers? Nope, didn't think so. It was entitled [they made me expand from 6 to 18 words!]:  A Phenomenological Adaptation of the Tibetan Buddhist Doctrine of Psychic Centers to a Metatheoretical Hierarchy of Human Motivation. Whew! It was for the Department of Human Development at the University of Maryland and covered the usual pre-enlightenment states of motivation, the Enlightened state and the post-enlightened state of human development. "Very ambitious," my advisor said. Writing it helped me understand myself, Llewelyn and Sam Weiser's Publishing houses said it was 'too scholarly for our general readers,' so I gave up [probably prematurely] having it become commercial.

...Just so ya know :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2800625 -

I would write a book/chapter on the fundamental nature of our perception being subjective and hence ALL inferences made from our experiences are by nature subjective no matter how many of us share a consensual event.The nature by which we percieve the world precludes objectivity due to the our subjective manner of perception.We can of couse apply objectivity to our perceptions but objectivly analysing subjective information  will automaticly be subject to intellectual bias.We can only experince objectively thought as it is NOT filtered by the subjective lens of our limited senses.but as soon as one tries to articulate the thought is becomes confined by language.So since thoughts cannot be objectively shared the only objectivity which exists is in our thought process BEFORE the concept is verbalized,once verbalized it has become a subjective choice of symbols one has chosen to represent the intangible thought, And also is heard using bio-audio pick ups(ears) which subjectively interpret the symbols.This would expose the overall lie of "objectivity" and confine it to consensual,verifiable subjective events
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2800666 -

I believe that consciousness operates according to the principles of reality. I don't believe that consciousness is primary. Your philosophy is disturbingly similar to the fashionable postmodern nonsense popular with literary academics.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2800737 -

so basically....you guys are going to print out your posts, photocopy them, and give them to each other.

So basically...the same thing you are doing now, but with more pollution?


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Positronius]
    #2800785 -

LMAO

I wouldn't contribute.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2800803 -

Quote:
Your philosophy is disturbingly similar to the fashionable postmodern nonsense popular with literary academics. 


More quantum physicists than anyone else except perhaps a physicist/Bhuddist monk named the tulku Tarthang.Conciousness may by bound by "reality" but it's method of percieving it is a subjective biological process.

In book stores this fall  :drama:The never ending saga of S&P's reality interpreters.Where a small group of folks solve the riddles of the universe. :3stooges:
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2801268 -

Quote:
Conciousness may by bound by "reality" but it's method of percieving it is a subjective biological process.


I believe that the process is an objective process. I believe that the we perceive the world in a physical (and thus) objective manner.

Your assertion is self-contradictory. An objective process cannot be simultaneously subjective.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2801519 -

He didn't say it was both simultaneously, did he?

He said that what we PERCEIVE to be objective thinking is actually subjective thinking because we are only capable of perceiving by way of our own perceptions.

If you've got a digital audio signal, and you choose to record it with an analog tape recorder, do you think the result is digital audio quality or analog tape recorder quality?

This should not be that hard to grasp.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2801602 -

...Which is why my handfull of subjective, "ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head" telepathy experiences have the additional meaning to me of brief respite from our embodied existential isolation from one another. Psychic over-lap; momentary self-realization of oneself as consciousness, and though embodied, it is consciousness that is ontologically prior, not embodiedness. Consciousness may well exist independently of the body, but the body cannot exist without life-imparting consciousness.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2801603 -

This should not be that hard to grasp.

I get a $0.15 royalty for each time that you use that phrase.  :cool:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Swami]
    #2801621 -

No you don't.. heh. :P

Nice try though..

Seriously though, do you say that a lot? I never noticed in particular.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2801627 -

"Consciousness may well exist independently of the body, but the body cannot exist without life-imparting consciousness."

Can you elaborate further on what your experiences were that led you to believe this part specifically?

(Or, if I wanna be a dick about it.. "But how do you KNOW????")  :grin:

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2801778 -

Most corpses are less than conscious I would say.If you have evidence of any physicaly dead bodies retaining consciousness I would say that would fundamentaly disprove Markos, otherwise his statement is a well known fact;There are no conscious corpses :wink:
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2801831 -

I have posted before on at least one very convincing OOBE that greatly contributed to my understanding of our human beinghood. From a Gnostic perspective, and better yet, from the perspective of classic Yoga philosophy which was echoed more recently by Ken Wilber, and most concisely by psychiatrist Victor Frankl, we are a "psycho-physico-spiritual" being. Aldous Huxley came to the same conclusion. The 'psychical domain' lies between the physical and the spiritual domains. Huxley called the psychical "amphibious," by which he meant that mind can identify with body or spirit in varying degrees.

OOBE's belong to the psychical domain of experience. Consciousness, still 'bounded' by an identification with 'form,' though not the material form, but an 'astral sheath' - not of physical substance, but of psychical form (Yoga description) - is able to assume a directional point of view from a location separate from the physical body. I say directional, because the perspective is one like one has, visually, while embodied (i.e., one is limited, not omnidirectional). The species of experience wherein one attains to an Omnidirectional Consciousness belongs to the spiritual domain, is purely mystical in nature, and the embodied ego is not present to the event. One's ego is not there to say "Wow! I can see Omnidirectionally!" This species of experience is affectionately called a 'PCE' - Pure Consciousness Event. This type is Unitive, Holy, and life-changing.

So, 'I Know' more than the surface structure of human beinghood (the physical body); I have been fortunate enough to experience relatively rare psychic and spiritual events which have contributed to my assumptions about human nature. They have no authority over anyone but myself, and may be considered genuine by their effects upon my values, ethics, actions and enthusiasm (Fr. entheos - inspired). Sometimes I am deluded in my dreams that I am awake. Sometimes I have lucid dreams. I have doubted physical reality once or twice on high acid doses, and when I experienced clinical depression with psychotic features when my former marriage ended. But when I had the above experiences, there was a strong sense of certitude about which 'level' I was aware of.

When St. Paul spoke of one of his experiences, he was not talking of a mere OOBE: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows - was caught up to paradise." -2 Corinthians 11:14. Once we remove the pedestals we have put Biblical personages on, and remove the exalted title of saint that we have put on them, we can see that these experiences are actually open to anyone who is sincerely seeking. The wording above was a mystical, hence spiritual experience, not a mere psychic event. Paul says that he was absent to the body, and repeats that because he wants us to know that he was highly conscious of the Divine Presence, but only God knows what became of his body at the moment. The "amphibious" mind identified with spirit, leaving out identification with the body. This heaven-state is expected to be available to us when our bodies perish through physical death. In the absence of mystical experience, this becomes a matter of faith.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2801837 -

Quote:
An objective process cannot be simultaneously subjective. 


Well since I was not clear enough an analogy...A computers has an objective functionality. Now give it a problem to solve and only feed it subjective information(feelings,impressions,etc.) and see what you get out.
My point is consciousness may well be a purely physical process,but the methods we feed it data are subjective. All our sensory input is filtered to prevent overstimulation no two people will filter the same information in exactly the same way( like a mental fingerprint).If there can never be truly identical data streams feeding even a purely objective consciousness no two will derive identical interpretations of the same data. The best we get are very close views in which we overlook or accomidate minor discrepencies between perceptions.
The classic example is asking for 6 peoples interpretations of a car wreck in which 6 differing versions are produced.
What we "call" objective is in reality a consensual sensory interpretation of a regularly occurring event,reality, of which the true nature is unknowable until by some means our "consciousness" experiences it directly and naked of the filtering system of the physical brain which by it's very nature selectively edits input according to personal criteria.
So to recap; Physicaly bound consciousness,even if an objective event, is fed data via a subjectively interpreted mental filter to prevent over stimulation.the individual differences in the mechanism preclude an objective data stream to the consciousness.
Non-bound consciousness; Can alter minor physical events by observation, is subjectively creating a consensual reality via sensual data feeding a non-physical consciousness.
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2801929 -

Yup, my views are very close to yours whiterasta. I think true objectivity is impossible without ceasing to exist. True objectivity would recquire nothingness to perceive the event, in which case nothingness would be unable to. It's like the tree falling in a forest when noone's around. Objectively, ys it makes a 'sound' as in a soundwave, but subjectively it is never perceived as a sound as nothing interprets it.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: deff]
    #2802261 -

What about practicing meditation to aquire pure awareness and the control of mind to put aside subjective feelings?


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2802547 -

JacquesCousteau said:
He didn't say it was both simultaneously, did he?[/quote[

IMO, he did, which is why I responded that way.

Quote:
He said that what we PERCEIVE to be objective thinking is actually subjective thinking because we are only capable of perceiving by way of our own perceptions.


I'm going to ignore your assertion that this is what you think he said and address your argument itself. The statement that we can only "perceive by way of our own perceptions" is a circular argument and hence quite unsound.

Quote:
If you've got a digital audio signal, and you choose to record it with an analog tape recorder, do you think the result is digital audio quality or analog tape recorder quality?


Analogue, obviously, but those recordings will still bear resemblance to the actual, physical sound which occured and was recorded. Sure, perception is not perfect, but it does represent physical reality, as your analogy just demonstrated.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2802555 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Consciousness may well exist independently of the body, but the body cannot exist without life-imparting consciousness.


So you believe in the primacy of experience and not of objective physical reality?

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2802588 -

Quote:
whiterasta said:
My point is consciousness may well be a purely physical process . . .If there can never be truly identical data streams feeding even a purely objective consciousness no two will derive identical interpretations of the same data. The best we get are very close views in which we overlook or accomidate minor discrepencies between perceptions.



I agree with this. I would not say that consciousness and perception allows us perfect access to the physical world, but that we can know the physical world even though our perception of that world is definately not perfect. I'm not trying to imply that our understanding of the world can be perfect.


Quote:
What we "call" objective is in reality a consensual sensory interpretation of a regularly occurring event,reality, of which the true nature is unknowable until by some means our "consciousness" experiences it directly and naked of the filtering system of the physical brain which by it's very nature selectively edits input according to personal criteria.



I agree and I lean toward the opinion that the true nature of the physical world or any objective event cannot be revealed (and I mean understood perfectly and absolutely true). I think that we can know some things about the physical world and I do believe that we can have objective knowledge about reality. That is, I wouldn't agree that all knowledge is subjective.

Quote:
So to recap; Physicaly bound consciousness,even if an objective event, is fed data via a subjectively interpreted mental filter to prevent over stimulation.the individual differences in the mechanism preclude an objective data stream to the consciousness.



I think I understand what you're saying. In my own case I simply consider it axiomatic that other human beings exist and can see pretty much what I see. This allows them to validate objective experiences alongside me.

If I were to not consider it axiomatic that the other human beings or any external source of computing or information could provide me with external verification of my own experiences, then I wouldn't bother debating this with you because I wouldn't consider it meaningful.

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That last line means that I wouldn't bother having a debate about whether or not all knowledge is subjective if I cannot consider it axiomatic that other humans exist (or that they are conscious, exist and experience the same reality that I do). If all knowledge is subjective, then there's no way that another human being could prove to me.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2803326 -

Quote:
JacquesCousteau said:
"Consciousness may well exist independently of the body, but the body cannot exist without life-imparting consciousness."

Can you elaborate further on what your experiences were that led you to believe this part specifically?

(Or, if I wanna be a dick about it.. "But how do you KNOW????")  :grin:



In man there is ego, the human ego and the divine ego. One can live or both can die. The divine ego is the spark from God that gives life to the conscious being, whether they are aware or not of the divine ego within. Hussein Mansoor (known as al-Hallaj) an Islamic mystic, once stated "I am God,"... he was executed for saying this as it was misunderstood by the exoterics of his time. Al Hallaj was annihilated (Faana in Arabic) in the spirit of God ( the experienced defined as gnosis/irfan/marifa'Allah), and all that existed in al-Hallaj was divine consciousness/ego. Physical matter becomes "corpse like" and non-reality in gnosis as all that exists in the eternal moment is the countenance of God. I am He whom I love, and He whom I love is I! We are two spirits dwelling in the same body. When you look at Me, you will see Allah, and when you see Allah, you will see Me!

To experience one's self as divine consciousness takes away any blind belief and transforms it into knowledge. "Know that ye are gods" Inside each man is a universe of love, an ocean that will woo a drop forever. Some people are asleep in this life, most are trying to wake up, and a few are actually awake to witness themselves as the dreamer (GOD).


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Edited by Zahid (06/17/04 06:38 PM)

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Zahid]
    #2803661 -

Boring
































(in general not directed at any post)

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2803714 -

This harkens back to that ol' 'If a tree falls in the forest, and there are no ears (animal, insect, or electronic) present, does it make a sound?' Air is compressed by the concussion, but without the presence of sensory-receiving apparatus... You see, we all have assumptions about this situation. It is a philosophical problem. There is no such thing as 'objective reality' - that is 19th century science. The very fact that we, humans, exist means that we are an integral part of psychophysical reality. We cannot abstractly extract our presence from a given phenomenon and say that THAT constitutes 'objective reality.' Such an abstraction is a fiction. This is tantamount to asking what Reality was prior to the Big Bang. Now THAT is what I consider to be 'Reality,' only in this instance, Objective Reality is also Subjective Reality simultaneously, and that Reality is Ultimate Reality, i.e., GOD.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2804025 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
This harkens back to that ol' 'If a tree falls in the forest, and there are no ears (animal, insect, or electronic) present, does it make a sound?' Air is compressed by the concussion, but without the presence of sensory-receiving apparatus... You see, we all have assumptions about this situation. It is a philosophical problem.


What's the problem? The question would lead me to assume that reality does exist. If sound is merely the vibrations transmitted through a medium which can be detected by human organs, then based on my axioms I would come to the conclusion that yes a sound was made.

Quote:
There is no such thing as 'objective reality' - that is 19th century science.


I consider it axiomatic that physical reality does exist.

19th century science, my ass. 21st century science considers this axiomatic as well. Most people assume that, yes, a physical reality does in fact exist.

Quote:
The very fact that we, humans, exist means that we are an integral part of psychophysical reality.


No, I think that humans do exist in physical reality, however the reality that a human perceives is not a perfect match to physical reality.

Quote:
We cannot abstractly extract our presence from a given phenomenon and say that THAT constitutes 'objective reality.'


But certainly it bears some relationship to objective reality.

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2804788 -

Vibrations may exist, but that which WE call 'a sound' - the interaction between the vibrations and the ear/nervous system - does NOT exist in actuality, only in potentia.

Pre-Einsteinian thinking also held that time was absolute not relative. The speed of light was not regarded as a Constant. I read with amusement a copy of 'Etidorpha,' (Aphrodite, backwards) a 19th century fantasy which includes subterranean forests of giant mushrooms, and included is the notion of a physical object that maintains its mass even when accelerated to 'infinite speed.' I digress.

I am not denying physical reality. I am saying that one cannot extract the human element in the perception of physical reality. As far back as the early 19th century philosopher Kant elaborated the notion of the Phenomenal world which we perceive, and the Noumenal world which exists independently of our perception. The Noumenal cannot be known, by natural perceptions or artificial extensions of perception (machines). We assume rightly that IF a sentient being is within range of a sensory-stimulating event like a crashing tree, THEN it could be perceived. I'm sure you don't have a problem agreeing that concussions of rock in deep space are silent. That is the nature of vacuum - no medium to convey vibrations. If a meteor hit your space helmet, you'd hear it! Then you'd have a nervous system plus a helmet and air to complete the phenomenon of 'a sound.' Otherwise, its ability to create sound is only a potential ability. Meteors banging in space are REALLY silent whether there is a witness of not. And hey...'in space, no one can hear you scream!'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2805833 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
I am not denying physical reality. I am saying that one cannot extract the human element in the perception of physical reality.


Well, I would agree with that as well, but I think that the human element is a physical element.  It seems akin to the problem of modelling the universe on a computer.  So, I don't see the mismatch or disconnection as a result of having a consciousness which is not part of the physical world.  I think that we cannot perfectly understand reality precisely because our conscious minds are a part of the physical world. That model won't be perfectly accurate.  I agree that humans are going to have inaccurate aspects wrt their understanding of the world.

Quote:
The Noumenal cannot be known, by natural perceptions or artificial extensions of perception (machines).


I agree that it cannot be known perfectly.

Quote:
And hey...'in space, no one can hear you scream!'


Lt. E. Ripley might disagree with that :wink:

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Re: books written by S&P members...who's would you read? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2809808 -

I'd read Swami's book :-D

I would like to someday write a book that shows your average American to become a bit more independant and help stimulate some positive change

Things like taking part in local governmental affairs, growing one's own food, supplying one's own power.

I have also toyed with the idea of writing something that ties together all of the new-age lifestyles. I see many groups of almost cultish origins arising today that are all separate in their final vision and their major beliefs, but all share the same path to that vision. I would like to discuss the similarities between many of today's movements to show that they are all helping to serve a larger purpose.

Unfortunately, wanting to write on these subjects, I don't expect much readership; but "not much" is more than nothing :wink:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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