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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Economist]
    #6417483 - 01/02/07 08:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
We don't tell the Protestants that they're going to hell, but they sure tell us we are




Or it only seems that way because you focus on the ones that do that. From having lived amongst a Protestant community for 2 years I can tell you that they believe the same in regards to the Catholic denomination.
I remember being shown books written by Catholic priests who even claimed such in their writings.

I believe denominations to be what is referred to when a certain scripture warns against "splitting the body of Christ," and the effect of it is split knowledge as well.


Edited by Disco Cat (01/02/07 01:23 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 4 days
Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Economist]
    #6417699 - 01/02/07 12:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:

We (the Roman Catholics) still believe that you're trying pretty hard to live a good life, and we'll be happy to see you join us in union with God.

@Implicitli
Please don't label all Christians as believers in fivepointer's doctrine, many of us would be happy to engage in philosophical debate.  Please believe me when I tell you that, according to the Catholic Church, if you're asking the question "How do I live a good life?" the answer is probably that you're already doing more than enough.  That usually gets lost in the extremism and the slander (We don't tell the Protestants that they're going to hell, but they sure tell us we are), but if you ever want a dialogue I'd be happy to give it.




I am not here to debate with you (you may have already read my posts). I just wanted to say that when, as a young Jewish seeker I decided to receive a Christian Baptism, I selected the Roman Catholic Church for reasons juvenile, yet ardent, and for the [naively] philosophical reason of trying to attain true 'catholicity' (i.e., universality) in my Christian faith. The juvenile reasons were based on the kindly Catholic family who used to invite my secular Jewish family over on Christmas Day for many years during my childhood. They all (I had been 'in love' with one of their two daughters, 7 years my senior - a blue-eyed, blonde-haied Irish-American girl - my 'baby-sitter'  :smile:) had been a very peaceful family. A second juvenile association was being taught about the crucifixion and the Sacred Heart of Jesus by my Catholic childhood friend Paul at about age 5 or 6. Lastly, my tripping/travel buddy Ed, also Catholic,  volunteered to introduce me to a priest who would give me catechism lessons and Baptize me. All positive associations with Catholicism, along with which I had been steeping my mind in Catholic mysticism, particular Pseudo-Dionysius which made complete sense in accordance with all the acid that I had been using.

I was never Confirmed a Catholic (I later spent 2 years in a Methodist seminary and took an MTS degree), and more recently in my life I have seen the origins of institution Christianity (Roman Catholicism) and its heresiology, inquisitions, crusades and purges, antisemitism and abuses of a 'celibate' priesthood (not to mention its patriarchy of same). In other words, the Shadow of Catholicism has become overwhelmingly apparent to me. This is not to say that I haven't been aware of other Shadows. It was the secular, materialistic Shadow of modern [Reform] Judaism that alienated me in the first place. If I didn't relegate the Exodus to Jewish Mythology, I would have to take issue with the slaughter of 30,000 Israelites who returned to Baal worship while Moses communed with Deity on the mountain (as well as other attrocities)!

I suppose that I am an equal-opportunity iconoclast, yet I never instigate people to leave the fold of their familial tradition. That I did, has proved a lonely and alienating path. I identify myself fairly awkwardly as Jewish Christian Gnostic with Jewish and Christian now being adjectival to Gnostic. A few years ago I would have said that Jewish and Gnostic were adjectival to Christian. However, if being a Christian demands fixed doctrinal and dogmatic expressions of the nature of Jesus Christ, then I simply cannot comply. I will maintain that I have a relationship with Christ as Logos; that I am in Christ, but I will not debate the percentages of humanity and divinity that comprise the nature of Jesus the Christ, and the orthodox versus heterodox views!

I have been called a heretic since I was 19 years old only because I suggested different interpretations of scripture. That used to please me somehow, but no longer. It is just my Realization that mentally-held constructs (doctrines/dogmas) rarely penetrate to the deeper/higher level wherein lies the 'Will' or essential being, and hence doctrines/dogmas do not transform a human being, through 'theosis' into Christ. They merely 'fix' the person at the 'psychic' level (in Gnostic understanding) and maintain division and divisiveness among human beings. The essential Truth dwells beyond the formulations so that a saint is a saint independently of his/her religious framework. Just sharing the nature of my 'heresy.' Since the historicity of scriptures is VERY questionable to me, I cannot state with certainty that the Biblical view of the crucifixion (for example) is accurate and the Qu'ranic view is not. The crux of the matter is (pun intended) the transformation of the human being into what Muslims Name Allah: "The Compassionate, the Merciful." THAT also describes Christ.

Peace.

-MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/02/07 01:47 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6417810 - 01/02/07 01:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There it is. :thumbup:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 5 years, 29 days
Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Economist]
    #6419009 - 01/02/07 06:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
"I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy. I also consider Gnostics, Roman Catholics, Mormons, JW's, Universalists and Annihilationists (I could go on..) to be false gospels, and those who hold to such doctrines lost souls." Now that is more correct.



I'm sorry you feel this way fivepointer.

We (the Roman Catholics) still believe that you're trying pretty hard to live a good life, and we'll be happy to see you join us in union with God.

@Implicitli
Please don't label all Christians as believers in fivepointer's doctrine, many of us would be happy to engage in philosophical debate. Please believe me when I tell you that, according to the Catholic Church, if you're asking the question "How do I live a good life?" the answer is probably that you're already doing more than enough. That usually gets lost in the extremism and the slander (We don't tell the Protestants that they're going to hell, but they sure tell us we are), but if you ever want a dialogue I'd be happy to give it.




Actually the official position of Roman Catholicism, as stated in the Council of Trent, (which is still official doctrine today), pronounces Anathema (to be accursed) on anyone who holds to the positions of Reformed Protestantism. Romanists also hold to no salvation outside the RCC. They recently made a doctrinal change that an ignorant person and even a Muslim could be saved outside the RCC. But officially Reformed Protestants are considered heretics and no salvation can exist for them while being outside of the RCC.


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Invisibleimplicitli
Female User Gallery
Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 3,021
Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6420880 - 01/03/07 10:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe the biggest problem is fearing your own susceptibility to believing something just because it COULD be an easy answer.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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